RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 9, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 9, 2015 Today I progressed this set a little further by using my ancient set of Jenkinson drawings and putting together the '3rd' sides and ends. I also put the undergubbins on the 3rd's underframe, without confirmation from drawings, but using Gilbert Barnatt's photo's as a guide only and a little common sense. For the unwary, the 3rd. sides and 1st. sides are slightly different and the end gangways must be handed to link with the Kitchen Car ends. The gangways are offset(is that the term?) The Jenkinson Drawings certainly helped with this otherwise I might well have messed this up big time and language would have become very Anglo Saxon. The outer doors on these two cars also only have door handles, as the 'inner' doors (next to the Kitchen Car) were 'sealed' but did retain their hinges! I need to check the grab handle situation on the Isinglass drawings (see below*). I'll post some pics tomorrow and that will help illustrate certain parts of a Comet Gresley build (Coachman's thread contains much better descriptions) and I hope that I shall be receiving my new *Isinglass Drawings very soon so that I can confirm the 'accuracy' of my work for a late 50s to early 1960s version of this Set. Fortunately with soldered kits, at this stage I can take it apart again if necessary; a pain, but useful if I have guessed incorrectly about positioniong of parts or certain details. In some ways, as long as the finished Set looks the part, with good and as correct as can be from drawings roof detail, tidy painting and marking up, then what lies under them is not critical as they will be 'layout coaches'. It also needs to sit well on the track and run well too. It will! However, part of me wants to get it as right as possible and another part allows compromise, especailly with the interior detail as the Kitchen car innards will not be seen. (All windows blanked). The new owner is quite capable of creating the First and Second innards, but I might just do that but leave the painting to his choice. I think I might let him make the 1st's curtains too...... Apologies for lack of pics today; the light in the workroom is terrible. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 10, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2015 Pictures as promised. Mainly to illustrate stages of a Comet build for anyone that has not done one. Apologies if they are a bit out of sequence. The 3rd/2nd sides shell, with a 1st side not separated, to show how the two parts are overlapped and soldered. I'm not fussed about blobby soldering on the inside! Turnunder achieved with some bits of skirting board and push bending with fingers and a Coachman style bit of wooden pole! Can you see the solder join on the front surface? Tinning both 'under' surfaces and a little care ensures no solder splurges at the 'join'..... (honestly)! Inside the 'shell' and a full side (excuse the slight focus loss please!) I use a little scrap brace across the top centre during work to prevent bending and squashing of the shell. It comes out once the roof is ready to fit. Undergubbins on the 3rd; is the 1st just a mirror of this? I will confirm later on receipt of Isinglass or by getting hold of those destructions (however the latter is no substitute for prototype practice). This kit has Turnbuckle Trussing. The Comet way of providing shell to floor attachment (bolt not present) Handed inner end of 3rd Plain outer end of 3rd (Bow End casting attached.. glued later) Don't know if I will do the 1st's shell today as I'm bored with hinges at the moment (hopeless isn't it). I remember that Tony W. did a build article on this kit when it was introduced (see earlier in the thread) in 2001 (BRM) and his build order was logical and I was following that logic at first. However, the intervening year/months has meant I forgot that. His method I believe, ensured the correct handedness of the two diners and their underframes and the Kitchen Car. I think he did all the underframes at the start? P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 11, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 11, 2015 Thanks to Mr Pulham of the Parish for the copy of the Comet paperwork. Quite extraordinary as he is now a 7mm modeller but retains his 'library' of info. I can now see if my guess at underparts on the First is OK. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 26, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 26, 2015 So Mr King. Almost caught you up as I did a bit more today. Only about 4 months later. Sorted the First sides, marked and drilled holes for hinges, altered the position of the battery boxes on the UF, to match the positions shown on the new set of correct Isinglass Drawings. I had not guessed correctly! Checked the 'orientation' of the three coaches as a set and if I have got things the correct way around. Fortunately I have! Pics tomorrow but only after some domestic chores are completed. I also hope to fit hinges and ends to the First sides. We shall have to see! Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 27, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 27, 2015 Apologies for poor photo focus. I/my camera can't cope. First nearest the camera. Drops and hinges fitted. Kitchen (has been like this for quite some time); Third furthest away. Won't be doing anything more for a few days as 'domestic activity' is taking precedent. Next week I might be able to start to sort the Heavy Duty Bogies, or maybe some work on the roof for each Diner. However, modelling activity is probably going to be very limited until the end of March. P @36E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 5, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 5, 2015 Spot the difference! Phil (Yup, the card tube has gone......) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted March 16, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2015 OK here are the Comet Drawings for the roof details. I have remembered that the Cowlings are the wrong shape; I have that in hand. Isinglass blurb says the roof conduits were there on this Diagram (for 1958) so I accept that is the case. Can I ask please, is the conduit position on here accurate, if so was it just a single conduit and did it go to the ends of the roof or disappear into the roof. I'd like to ask Mr King if he has a pic of the roof dedtail on his First and Second. I'm also not sure if the Kithen Car had any conduit; there is no indication of it on the Comet or Isinglass drawings so I assume not. Lastly, was it really loose seating in these cars in 1958? Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted April 17, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2015 Well, I still haven't confirmed about the roof conduit I have done what I think is right after some help and getting out the Isinglass. However that highlighted a misplacing of the 1st and 3rd roof vents! Pah! However I have done the HD bogies. They are the Comet etch with MJT modified Heavy Duty sides. I've now got to work out how the artic bogies can be fettleand seating as no one seems/ed willing to respond to my requests above. d to clear the coach floors, as the normal Comet fitting(s) do not work at the articulation points. Plasticard and glue may well be employed I suspect. Sorted with a couple of nuts and bolts! Middle of the night thinking again......! The plastic roof mouldings have been modified so that they 'sit' in the coach bodies; they will, of course, be glued securely once the thing is painted (or just before depending on needs of the owner). There is quite a lot of detailing yet to do and the internal fittings will be done later. Corridor connections etc. I think it looks more like a Tiplet than it has done for many a month. Quackers. Edit: see comments about this elsewhere in the RMWeb Theatre of Dreams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted April 17, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2015 Will look nice in green. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted April 18, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 18, 2015 Will look quite good in Maroon once I've actually finished building it & Gilbert has sorted the last little bits and painting. I can't yet do painting of coaches......... Quackers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sasquatch Posted April 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 20, 2015 If it's any help Quackers, the diagrams 12 & 14 dining cars had domed ceilings thus the lighting conduit was placed externally on the roofs. This not being the case for the dia. 13 kitchen! Nick Camplings drawings show the conduit to the right of the cowlings as viewed from the ends on both diagrams. 12 & 14. Guy Hemingway's photo seems to confirm this. Mr. Camplings drawings show the conduit starting 5' in from the end on the first, running to the end and 3' 6" from the outer end on the third but stoping 1'3" from the kitchen end. The rest. first 1928 builds had two compartments of three bays. (18 seats each of smoking and non smoking!!) Hope this helps. I can't offer any comments on the seating arrangements for your period. regards Shaun Edit: Great work so far, am intrigued to see the end result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGC Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 If it's any help Quackers, the diagrams 12 & 14 dining cars had domed ceilings thus the lighting conduit was placed externally on the roofs. This not being the case for the dia. 13 kitchen! Nick Camplings drawings show the conduit to the right of the cowlings as viewed from the ends on both diagrams. 12 & 14. Guy Hemingway's photo seems to confirm this. Mr. Camplings drawings show the conduit starting 5' in from the end on the first, running to the end and 3' 6" from the outer end on the third but stoping 1'3" from the kitchen end. The rest. first 1928 builds had two compartments of three bays. (18 seats each of smoking and non smoking!!) Hope this helps. I can't offer any comments on the seating arrangements for your period. regards Shaun Edit: Great work so far, am intrigued to see the end result. Having learnt of Mallards progress in kit completion, I'll be intrigued to see an end result at all! Phil (another one!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted April 20, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 20, 2015 If it's any help Quackers, the diagrams 12 & 14 dining cars had domed ceilings thus the lighting conduit was placed externally on the roofs. This not being the case for the dia. 13 kitchen! Nick Camplings drawings show the conduit to the right of the cowlings as viewed from the ends on both diagrams. 12 & 14. Guy Hemingway's photo seems to confirm this. Mr. Camplings drawings show the conduit starting 5' in from the end on the first, running to the end and 3' 6" from the outer end on the third but stoping 1'3" from the kitchen end. The rest. first 1928 builds had two compartments of three bays. (18 seats each of smoking and non smoking!!) Hope this helps. I can't offer any comments on the seating arrangements for your period. regards Shaun Edit: Great work so far, am intrigued to see the end result. Thanks mate and that in spite of big cats? I'm just not 100% sure if the conduit was still external in 1958 (really sad I know). Having learnt of Mallards progress in kit completion, I'll be intrigued to see an end result at all! Phil (another one!) Well I know! However, my only excuse is that almost all the things I have done and shown on here have been for others and that does not mean to 'completion' as it is/was the Comet Coach Basic or Intermediate Soldering Service (when Geoff was alive). That service did/does not include final detailing or painting I'm afraid! Almost all my own stuff is sadly in that state too, so I really have no excuse at all, however I have got to change all that as time is running out! Quackers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted April 20, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 20, 2015 Well here it is. How beautiful is it (OK I know what you worshippers of the other '3' will say)? No wheels, too short, etc. Triplet Kitchen Car TW's.jpg P I've just been rereading the Isinglass notes for about the 50th time and I notice that the 1928 build Corridor side windows on the Kitchen Car should not have ventilators and were 3' deep. I think the Comet sides vents need cutting out and if so........... a huge expletive will be bellowed around this part of 36E! I've also noted, having fitted cosmetic conduits, (sound posh that), that my 1st and 3rd roof vents are in the wrong place for the '28 builds with roof lighting conduits. The Comet diagram showing the position of these is incorrect I believe? If not, I'm a tw*t! They also do not show roof grab handles on the Kitchen Car......Isinglass does. Were these grabs removed for safety purposes before '58? Now, do I do as Tony and G King (if his is a 28 build?) have done (no KC roof grab rails and vents on the KC Corridor side windows)........ or do I go with the Isinglass notes? Pah and double pah. Quite honestly, life is too short for me to care really, but this is for someone else and I'd like to get it more or less correct as far as I can. Quackers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Well if I were that 'someone else', I'd just be drooling at the sight of that picture in #133. Great work. (Furthermore, if I were that 'someone else' and subsequently spent all my time telling folks that a roof conduit was wrong rather just enjoying the moment of having such a lovely item of stock on my layout then I suspect I would rapidly run out of friends ) What I see are some beautiful looking bodies and a near perfectly straight roof line. Not always easy to achieve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted April 21, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2015 OK so the strimmer has run out of puff! Any excuse to come for a cuppa. Thank you 4479. Much appreciated. I can assure you that 'the someone' won't mind at all, however as he is such a good bloke I would like to get it right in as many ways as possible. I'm just hoping that Mr. King will come up with the info, but he seems to have disappeared since completing his Kirky set Quicklyboreders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 1, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 1, 2015 How I hate spray cans!! However, one has to start somewhere. I just wish I had a decent workshop/studio where I could set up the Air Brush and do things properly. Anyhow, body has Halfords Red Oxide Primer with 2/3 coats of Halfords Ford Burgundy Red. To be fair, the nozzle distribution is not that bad considering it is supposed to be for 12" to 1'. Ends will be hand painted (by me) with (probably) Humbrol Matt Black and then treated with Testors Dullcote. I need to sort the decals as well. It looks a bit 'light' but I think that was the reflection off my white bench board as it looks OK 'in the hand'. Underframe, same Company's Grey Primer and then Matt Black (which is excellent but actually just verging on Silk). I'll leave the new owner to do the underframe weathering, depending on what condition he wants! Once the new owner has 'weathered' this/these sides as well, I think it will look OK. I will tackle the glazing at the weekend. (Sorry I lied). Easy this (he says confidently) as all are white except for the one staff compartment (2nd window from the left end). I am now considering if the roof needs the grab handles! In 1958 I suspect they were still there. No pics but I have sorted the door, grab handles and Gangway fittings on the Third. It is ready for priming. More pics over the weekend (well, maybe...........) Sorry, I lied again. I also forgot the vents; I have painted them separately and will glue on....................sometime soon. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 3, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 3, 2015 Rain has stopped play I am sorry to say. Maybe service will resume in the coming week? Still haven't heard from Mr King about the roof. I suspect he thinks I am not worthy. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 4, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 4, 2015 Today I knackered myself doing only 20 minutes sponsored 'exercise bike' type cycling, so I came home (very slowly on a proper bike) and then stuck on the vents, then collapsed on the settee for an hour (pathetic really). One of the vents has two little 'chips' and now needs a repaint! Pah! P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Today I knackered myself doing only 20 minutes sponsored 'exercise bike' type cycling, so I came home (very slowly on a proper bike) and then stuck on the vents, then collapsed on the settee for an hour (pathetic really). One of the vents has two little 'chips' and now needs a repaint! Pah! P For a moment there I thought you were on a ventilator to recover from the ride! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 5, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 5, 2015 For a moment there I thought you were on a ventilator to recover from the ride! Closer to fact than you might think matey! Might have a look at masking off all but the dinged vent today and doing a quick respray? Double pah! P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 6, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 6, 2015 Fact: I didn't mask off all but the vents, I sprayed some paint onto a clean surface and whilst it was wet I 'touched in' the dings and actually painted all 4 vents again! It worked OK. Hand painted the ends with Humbrol 33 Matt Black and used a beautiful chisel end art brush. Good result IMO. Fitted the single clear window and discovered that Evostick does not go with Halfords spray paint! (Overspray on the inside; I shall need to be very careful with the white plasticard). Have decided to leave the roof handles for now. Grey primed the three roof mouldings; ran out of paint! Pics to follow at some time soon. Quackers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Looking forward to seeing these Phil. And your Gresley coach thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 6, 2015 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted May 6, 2015 I work so fast that I amaze myself sometimes............................................ Thanks David I fitted out the rest of Kitchen Car windows this afternoon. White plasticard and adhesive. Once those have 'settled in' and the roof is ready, I shall attach the roof with Evo Stick and take a couple of pics with the artic bogies in place if possible. I also gave each roof a blast of Testors Dull Cote. They all need grey primer on the undersides, but I might use conventional paint (e.g. Humbrol) so that the glue doesn't mess The Halfords paint when attaching them to the bodies. Or I might just put a coat of varnish along the edges, coating the Halfords primer? Not sure yet. The First and Third both need a visit to the paint shops but I need more paint! The internals need doing as well.................just can't wait to do those (not) The Gresley Brake for Gilbert is also on hold for a few days until I get more paint! P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 I tend to use halfords rattle cans for coaches... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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