Romford -Upminster train depot

[Suzie]

...BTW I believe there was a recent suggestion to connect the Romford branch to the LT system (I've absolutely no idea why!)

 

I am sure it will have nothing to do with megalomaniac Boris extending his domain to include sole control of the Romford-Upminster branch by converting it to fourth rail with district stock and thereby preventing any trains from outside London using it.

 

But it would free up a dusty and the catenary could be reused on the Felixstowe line...

[PhilJ W]

I remember the long crossover from the Romford branch to the LTS line, BR trains crossed the LT tracks on the level via a pair of diamonds - IIRC by 1960 there wasn't any actual connection with the London Transport system, except possibly at the end of the branch platform - by the time I started to use Upminster station in the early '70s, there was no connection but a pair of back to back buffer stops at the end of the Romford branch platform implied that a former run round loop had been severed (possibly when the Romford branch got its own platform?)

Upminster c.1959-1962 would have been good to model as well - the last of the oval-window "F" trains alongside the later stock on the District line, Stanier, Fairburn and BR 2-6-4Ts on LTS passenger services and the goods yard Clive mentions (which was closed & lifted in the mid-'60s).

Add the occasional red LT pannier tank on service trains, DMUs to Romford and early diesels making sporadic appearances, Black 5s on summer Saturday excursions to Southend; I just wish I had the space!

BTW I believe there was a recent suggestion to connect the Romford branch to the LT system (I've absolutely no idea why!)

The oval windowed F stock never worked as far as Upminster. During the 50's and 60's the stock used was the Q stock which consisted of up to 5 distinctly different types of stock forming one train. The panniers never ventured that far either. The branch would be difficult and expensive to convert to 4-rail as IIRC there are three open pedestrian level crossings that will have to be replaced by footbridges to begin with.

[Colin]

I definitely saw a train or two of very shabby F stock in the sidings at Cranham, shortly after we moved there in 1962 - I was only 9 at the time but the oval cab windows really grabbed my attention. Perhaps the vehicles in question had been taken to Upminster after withdrawal and were stored or going for scrap; one thing I do remember is that the end vehicles' destination panels were blank white, presumably the blind had been removed - funny how these little things stick in the mind!

I well remember the incredible mix of stock on the District line - there were some fascinating rakes of stock to be seen.

I feel sure I read in a couple of fairly recent magazine articles that the odd LT pannier made it through to Upminster - probably only as a "covert operation" in the middle of the night of course!

Was there any operational reason that might have prevented such an occurrence - the water tower at Upminster was certainly still standing well into the '60s.

[PhilJ W]

IIRC some of the F stock were taken to Upminster for scrapping. The F stock because of clearance problems was not allowed to carry passengers east of Barking. Likewise the A and C stock was not allowed to carry passengers beyond Barking but could be seen at Upminster where they were sent to have their wheels turned on the wheel lathe.

[Colin]

Was the F stock actually scrapped on site at Upminster? I only saw the trains there briefly, from memory they'd gone a matter of weeks after I first spotted them.

[PhilJ W]

Was the F stock actually scrapped on site at Upminster? I only saw the trains there briefly, from memory they'd gone a matter of weeks after I first spotted them.

IIRC they may have only been stored at Upminster and scrapped elsewhere.

[PhilJ W]

I have just acquired the 'Godfrey Edition' old ordnance survey map #79.11 Essex new series, Heath Park & Emerson Park 1915. It clearly shows the depot and the track layout as it was at that date, including a cattle dock and coal staiths. Excellent value at £2.10.

[Les Bird]

 The panniers never ventured that far either.

Oh yes they did! Give me time and I'll find a photograph to prove it. I remember getting up very, very early one morning to take the pictures.

[sb67]

Does anyone know if any pictures exist of the coal yard at Romford, I have seen a really good one of the old station goods yard with a line looping round to the Brewery.

[trisonic]

 I have seen a really good one of the old station goods yard with a line looping round to the Brewery.

Can you place this photo you refer to in this thread or a link to it please?

 

Best, Pete.

[PhilJ W]

There are some very good photographs of the depot (South Street) in 'Ilford to Shenfield' in the Middleton Press series (ISBN 1 901706 974). However I know of no photographs of the LT&S yard. The person most likely to know of any photographs is Peter Kay the author of the 'Londons Railway Heritage' series (he also wrote the 'Essex Railway Heritage' series.

[mezzoman253]

There's this http://www.flickr.com/photos/23700069@N03/6073701253/ not an expansive view though.

 

This is a bit better http://www.flickr.com/photos/58523556@N02/5471945509/in/photolist-9kx9L6-9JBExP-9JEqBS-cj5mFA-dau7Cj-buywQN-d7G6VE-eMgecy-eM4H76-eM4MoZ-8PaXaW-8ThUjo-8gBhwq-8gBhtY-8gy29X-8gy296-8wVMJp-8fGJs9-8fGJkq-8fDtuD-8fGJAA-8fDu2g-8fGJ2u-8DsRQ7-8P1ZMH-dmcKvA-8MkvfN-7WYthK-7SnvAX-akL9EN-7PA5RV

 

Related but not to the last post re coal yard. http://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?serial=1&img=Y-87-05A

 

HTH

 

Rob

[PhilJ W]

There's this http://www.flickr.com/photos/23700069@N03/6073701253/ not an expansive view though.

 

This is a bit better http://www.flickr.com/photos/58523556@N02/5471945509/in/photolist-9kx9L6-9JBExP-9JEqBS-cj5mFA-dau7Cj-buywQN-d7G6VE-eMgecy-eM4H76-eM4MoZ-8PaXaW-8ThUjo-8gBhwq-8gBhtY-8gy29X-8gy296-8wVMJp-8fGJs9-8fGJkq-8fDtuD-8fGJAA-8fDu2g-8fGJ2u-8DsRQ7-8P1ZMH-dmcKvA-8MkvfN-7WYthK-7SnvAX-akL9EN-7PA5RV

 

Related but not to the last post re coal yard. http://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?serial=1&img=Y-87-05A

 

HTH

 

Rob

The first pic is of the GE/LNER yard in South Street, I well remember the Queen Mary brake van and there was also a grounded GE van body up against the station retaining wall that was there until the yard closed.

[sb67]

Trisonic,

mezzoman253 has beaten me to a couple of flickr pictures I was going to post. The brewery picture is in the Dec 2003 issue of Railway bylines and is a picture from the 1920's, there's a great article about the railway in the brewery, well worth tracking down if you can.

regards

Steve

[trisonic]

I was hoping you had a photo that I'd never seen before of that looping arrangement. I believe I have seen all other published ones.

 

Thanks! Pete.

[PhilJ W]

I've just dug out my copy of 'Railways South East Album' (ISBN 9 781854 141651) that has an article on the Romford-Grays line. That has a couple of useful snippets. There was a siding installed circa 1920 to the south side of the Victoria Road bridge to serve the Manor Road depot of Hall & Co. builders merchants, this was removed when the goods yard closed but was little used by then. The connection to the LNER main line at Romford was removed circa 1931 leaving the only access at Upminster, the signal cabin was removed about 1936. The connection was reinstated in 1940 as a wartime emergency measure. I worked for Hall & Co. in 68/69 and was aware of the rail connection but I had forgotten completely about it. I should imagine that the yard would have been very busy in the 20's and 30's, as well as the staples of coal and cattle there would have been considerable building materials (timber/bricks/cement etc.) into Halls yard, there was a lot of house building going on in the area at the time. 

[Les Bird]

Does anyone know if any pictures exist of the coal yard at Romford, I have seen a really good one of the old station goods yard with a line looping round to the Brewery.

I'm not sure if it's still the case but there used to be a footpath alongside the down side of the embankment on which Romford Station sits called the Battis. If you walked along it, you could clearly see the archway under the embankment through which the brewery connection passed. The last time I was there (admittedly some years ago) the rails were still in place across the path. You could also see the remains of the tracks within the brewery complex but that of course has been completely obliterated. I can remember looking down over the wall of Platform 2 onto the sharply curved track below.

 

Incidentally, the branch should strictly speaking be called the Upminster to Romford branch rather than the other way round since it was built by the LT&S.

[micklner]

The Battis is still there . The Ind Coope Brewery site is now shops and a large car park. I also remember seeing the rail lines going through a gated bricked up arch about ten years ago. I still live fairly locally and will have a look one day. I also have vague memories of battered Scarabs coming in and out of the yard in South Street next to Romford Station as a child.

[PhilJ W]

I used to live a short distance from the far end of the Battis, in fact Romford signal box was at the bottom of my garden. Back to the original OP, the LT&SR goods yard and station would make an ideal subject for a model especially if set in the 1930's when there was no physical connection to the LNER(GE) lines.

[sb67]

I'm not sure if it's still the case but there used to be a footpath alongside the down side of the embankment on which Romford Station sits called the Battis. If you walked along it, you could clearly see the archway under the embankment through which the brewery connection passed. The last time I was there (admittedly some years ago) the rails were still in place across the path. You could also see the remains of the tracks within the brewery complex but that of course has been completely obliterated. I can remember looking down over the wall of Platform 2 onto the sharply curved track below.

 

Incidentally, the branch should strictly speaking be called the Upminster to Romford branch rather than the other way round since it was built by the LT&S.

 

I worked in the brewery from 1987 til the end and before that in the late 70's remember going in there with my dad. I can remember the tunnel and the gated ( I think) track entering the yard, also the inset tracks over a lot of the yard and the hundreds of cats that made there home in the battis!! I never remember seeing many photo's of the brewery railway though.

[mezzoman253]

Seen coming off the branch, 317 508 captured at 10:01 on 07/01/2012

 

100_3338b.JPG

 

and heading for Upminster earlier.

 

100_3332a.JPG

 

I've a brief video too, it's over 2Meg, so I'll try and trim it.

 

Rob

Hi,

 

I've finally got this uploaded to YouTube, only 2 years late!! Whether it's still of interest you'll be the judge. Probably not.

 

 

Rob

[railroadbill]

By coincidence I'd been looking through some reference books for something else when I came across this thread and I found a note that on 19/10/1976 I travelled on the branch on Cravens (105) set E50361 (motor) and E56122 (trailer).  Found the  details about the area posted earlier very interesting.

[seanworrall]

Bit late on this but only just saw it...

There was a plan to connect the LT depot so trains could run out to the Romford branch platform.  This was so D Stock could go to be refurbished by rail.  There was some work done and the track layout can be seen from the Eastern end of the branch platform.  They went by road though in the end.

Stock normally used on the branch is a 317, can sometimes be a 321 or more rarely a 315.

Though AGA have just started a new Cambridge-Stansted shuttle so may use a 317 for that instead.

 

[PhilJ W]

I definitely saw a train or two of very shabby F stock in the sidings at Cranham, shortly after we moved there in 1962 - I was only 9 at the time but the oval cab windows really grabbed my attention. Perhaps the vehicles in question had been taken to Upminster after withdrawal and were stored or going for scrap; one thing I do remember is that the end vehicles' destination panels were blank white, presumably the blind had been removed - funny how these little things stick in the mind!

I well remember the incredible mix of stock on the District line - there were some fascinating rakes of stock to be seen.

I feel sure I read in a couple of fairly recent magazine articles that the odd LT pannier made it through to Upminster - probably only as a "covert operation" in the middle of the night of course!

Was there any operational reason that might have prevented such an occurrence - the water tower at Upminster was certainly still standing well into the '60s.

The water tower was there until the 80's.