witherbrow Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Good Afternoon my dears I'm looking for some information regarding the 318 unit that runs from Romford to Upminster, essentialy when its final run is done where is it stored? I had imagined it would trundle off to Shenfield as there are EMU sidings there and Ilford is further away. Or do they just leave it in the platform overnight? Trainsim are bringing out liverpool Street to Ipswich and I've started writing scenarios already. Regards - Ash Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted August 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2013 It is kept at Ilford depot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Not a Class 318, they have only ever worked in Scotland.....Most likely a Class 315 ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 A dusty (321) last time I travelled on the line. There was a 315 before that though and before that a 2-car DMU but I cannot remember which type.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted August 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2013 In days gone by - pre TOPS - I think there was a yellow diamond 2 car Metro Cammell unit assigned to the diagram, based at Stratford but we are talking late (19)60s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb67 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I'm sure I've travelled on a cravens 105 to upminster in the early 80's! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted August 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2013 Since electrification class 313, very early on, class 315 for many years and recently "dusty bins" 321 and 317s have been used. Before electrification Derby and Met-cam lightwieghts, followed by Cravens units. At times a BRCW 3 car unit might be used (1970s), or a Derby 125 suburban unit (1960s). There is even a photo on flickr of a Met-cam Class 111 at Upminster http://www.flickr.com/photos/david_christie/5619306946/ Mixed blue square units were also known to be used. i.e. Cravens and BRCW. What replaced the ex MR push-pull fitted 0-4-4Ts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted August 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2013 Good Afternoon my dears I'm looking for some information regarding the 318 unit that runs from Romford to Upminster, essentialy when its final run is done where is it stored? I had imagined it would trundle off to Shenfield as there are EMU sidings there and Ilford is further away. Or do they just leave it in the platform overnight? Trainsim are bringing out liverpool Street to Ipswich and I've started writing scenarios already. Regards - Ash Hi Ash The nearest sidings are at Gidea Park but as Phil states Ilford depot is the one used and easiest to get to from the branch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Trainshed Terry Posted August 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2013 A dusty (321) last time I travelled on the line. There was a 315 before that though and before that a 2-car DMU but I cannot remember which type.. From memory I think it was a 101. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted August 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2013 I thought Class 101s are Blue Square. Stratford's Met Camms were Yellow Diamonds and Stratford's other (initial?) allocation were (I thin) Orange Star Rolls Royce units. The latter seemed to live on the Lea Valley (although I think they also had a Southminster diagram but won't swear to it). The Met Camms did the Woolwich branch and I think, the Romford branch. Everything else was EMUs or class 37s (Liverpool Street/Cambridge) & 47s (Norwich) from memory although the class 15 & 16s were based in this area as well (plus the odd 08) I'm fairly certain that the Rolls Royce units also used to cover for the LT & S EMUs overnight when they were "pot" cleaning. Possibly a bit before the time the OP is concerned with and apologies for the deviation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium mezzoman253 Posted August 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 10, 2013 Seen coming off the branch, 317 508 captured at 10:01 on 07/01/2012 and heading for Upminster earlier. I've a brief video too, it's over 2Meg, so I'll try and trim it. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Since electrification class 313, very early on, class 315 for many years and recently "dusty bins" 321 and 317s have been used. Before electrification Derby and Met-cam lightwieghts, followed by Cravens units. At times a BRCW 3 car unit might be used (1970s), or a Derby 125 suburban unit (1960s). There is even a photo on flickr of a Met-cam Class 111 at Upminster http://www.flickr.com/photos/david_christie/5619306946/ Mixed blue square units were also known to be used. i.e. Cravens and BRCW. What replaced the ex MR push-pull fitted 0-4-4Ts? There was an article in the July 2013 edition of "Steam Days" concerning Upminster. It states that the Midland 0-4-4Ts lasted until 1955 when they were replaced with push-pull fitted N7s and F5s. Here's a scan from a rather under exposed slide (GAF500 - better suited to Biba adverts than to railway photography) of the dmu working the Romford-Upminster service in December 1974. E50577, Birmingham RC&W (later class 104). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
witherbrow Posted August 11, 2013 Author Share Posted August 11, 2013 Awesome thank you all for your comments :0 Gives me a good idea of what i can run in a scenario. Looking forward to the route being released and depending on the stock available from from various sources i think i can get a good 10 scenarios done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted August 11, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 11, 2013 Awesome thank you all for your comments :0 Gives me a good idea of what i can run in a scenario. Looking forward to the route being released and depending on the stock available from from various sources i think i can get a good 10 scenarios done If you are planning a model there used to be a small goods yard just behind the OHLE mast in Mezzoman253's pics. This was still in use IIRC until the 70's. The block of flats is built on the site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted August 12, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 12, 2013 The goods yard was called Romford Victoria Road IIRC (I remember seeing the road entrance complete with large BR/ER dark blue enamel sign), and it was quite busy up to the early '70s (I changed jobs and stopped using the line in late '71 so I'm not too sure if it lasted much longer). The yard was accessed from the branch - travelling from Upminster towards Romford, I remember some fairly complex pointwork on the left just before the commencement of the curve towards the GE main line, also a fixed distant signal immediately before one of the road overbridges. Some of the yard curves must have been fairly tight! By the mid-60s some of the yard (notably a couple of very overgrown sidings that faced away from the main yard, towards Emerson Park) appeared to have become disused and partly lifted but I remember tracks occupied by long lines of 16t coal wagons and there was also a short loading dock siding. I never saw any sort of loco in the yard, but a Stratford class 15 seems the most likely motive power post-1962 until they disappeared around 70/71. As a suburban goods yard, I think it would make a super subject for a model - unless the track plan is more extensive than I recall! While I think of it, there was a long-disused siding which left the branch just as it curved away from the LTS & District lines at Upminster - it ran up to, and than alongside, a large building with big roof vents (possibly a substation?) where it disappeared into the undergrowth. I think the building's still there but the point was removed in the '70s, leaving a disconnected length of track which has now also disappeared (unless it's still there under all the vegetation) - has anyone ever seen any pictures of wagons on the siding, or any clues as to its use? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Victoria Road is two or three miles from Upminster seems a strange name for the yard ? Sadly only lived in Upminster since 1989 so its a bit boring, although you can see the LT terminal sidings in Cranham about a mile east of Upminster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I'm sure I remember travelling to Upminster by tube? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 District Line terminates there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium mezzoman253 Posted August 12, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 12, 2013 The road where the yard was is called Victoria Road, and about half way down towards Romford is the Queen Victoria pub. There's a footbridge over the tracks leading to Eastern Road. This is where I first was introduced to train spotting in 1958. I still visit occasionally and it still smells the same, damp leaf litter and faint smoke. It must be impregnated in the brick work. Memories of various DMU's on the branch of which I didn't know the types then, and can't remember now. Britannias and Footballers, "new" EE diesels, and the like. Didn't visit Upminster much at that time but I think it was Fairburn tanks and then standard tanks later. Happy days. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 As thought nowhere near Upminster. Sadly that is now another block of flats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted August 12, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 12, 2013 The goods yard was called Romford Victoria Road IIRC (I remember seeing the road entrance complete with large BR/ER dark blue enamel sign), and it was quite busy up to the early '70s (I changed jobs and stopped using the line in late '71 so I'm not too sure if it lasted much longer). The yard was accessed from the branch - travelling from Upminster towards Romford, I remember some fairly complex pointwork on the left just before the commencement of the curve towards the GE main line, also a fixed distant signal immediately before one of the road overbridges. Some of the yard curves must have been fairly tight! By the mid-60s some of the yard (notably a couple of very overgrown sidings that faced away from the main yard, towards Emerson Park) appeared to have become disused and partly lifted but I remember tracks occupied by long lines of 16t coal wagons and there was also a short loading dock siding. I never saw any sort of loco in the yard, but a Stratford class 15 seems the most likely motive power post-1962 until they disappeared around 70/71. As a suburban goods yard, I think it would make a super subject for a model - unless the track plan is more extensive than I recall! While I think of it, there was a long-disused siding which left the branch just as it curved away from the LTS & District lines at Upminster - it ran up to, and than alongside, a large building with big roof vents (possibly a substation?) where it disappeared into the undergrowth. I think the building's still there but the point was removed in the '70s, leaving a disconnected length of track which has now also disappeared (unless it's still there under all the vegetation) - has anyone ever seen any pictures of wagons on the siding, or any clues as to its use? The yard Colin has mentioned can be found on the 1962 1/2500 map http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html grid coordinates 552217 and 188819. With Victoria Road over bridge at teh end of the yard you have your scenic break.The sidings facing Emerson Park appear to be a coal yard in their own right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium mezzoman253 Posted August 12, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 12, 2013 Just been trawling the web and come up with these on Flickr. http://www.flickr.com/photos/david_christie/6031770264/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/40047420@N05/5421618545/in/photolist-9g6diP-98ymDF-frRnPw-e4b1d7-e4mFzX-ft81Tw-e4HSwY-8TUqw4-8TXuHo-8TXuyC-e5ayVH-e1DkHL-7Nv3oW-7CLbC5-94hQmq-94eJsM-dJboAd-dJTrhs-98BxKA-dA2WKL-9BTC2F-buy9mb-e45nJe-9CksLS-9D7fp5-e3ABaU-ecRUKg-9D7fpd-7XcpSP-9CpNcJ-cXAgEA-dK3KLD-dKoMyN-eayTE9-eayFUj-eat7oX-eayV4L-eatcoK-eatb2z-eayGzo-eat57R-eat28v-eat4jT-eayNCJ-eayMTQ-eatd8g-eat1VK-eayUdy-eatbP4-eatdQK-9gzWr8 http://www.flickr.com/photos/23987565@N05/9495908916/in/photolist-ft81Tw-ecRUKg-9D7fpd-e4HSwY-7XcpSP-9CpNcJ-cXAgEA-dK3KLD-8TUqw4-8TXuHo-8TXuyC-dKoMyN-eayTE9-eayFUj-eat7oX-eayV4L-eatcoK-eatb2z-eayGzo-eat57R-eat28v-eat4jT-eayNCJ-eayMTQ-eatd8g-eat1VK-eayUdy-eatbP4-eatdQK-eat8hg-dZjKbc-dK3KUM-eat5S6-8j5FXj-8SS8s4-bXdJYK-ceA8eS-9gzWr8-cezTKE-bXdyxR-7yTjmw-dvx8Ci-dsuGdV-dWEBpS-cXAfWE-7ZLTmc-9L9PLs-7yzXAa-e4mFCB-dVUCUP-7Nr4E2 http://www.flickr.com/photos/33650137@N05/5662891000/in/photolist-9CpNcJ-cXAgEA-dK3KLD-8TUqw4-8TXuHo-8TXuyC-dKoMyN-eayTE9-eayFUj-eat7oX-eayV4L-eatcoK-eatb2z-eayGzo-eat57R-eat28v-eat4jT-eayNCJ-eayMTQ-eatd8g-eat1VK-eayUdy-eatbP4-eatdQK-eat8hg-dZjKbc-dK3KUM-eat5S6-8j5FXj-8SS8s4-bXdJYK-ceA8eS-9gzWr8-cezTKE-bXdyxR-7yTjmw-dvx8Ci-dsuGdV-dWEBpS-cXAfWE-7ZLTmc-9L9PLs-7yzXAa-e4mFCB-dVUCUP-7Nr4E2-7Nr4zg-7Nv3oq-e4CgMK-cGFzFu-9x8BkM http://www.flickr.com/photos/40052043@N03/7726688000/in/photolist-cLMi9C-9MXcsn-9MZXjQ-cgWZGs-9BTPg4-cXAfdu-b8qhyt-ajvEdR-ajytmJ-9f7DNn-9faNkd-ajyB91-ajvJfK-eZfeHZ-aaNz5L-8TpDn7-8TmwyB-8TppJJ-dJbsWm-8TpD3d-8TpCFh-8TpGgA-8TmDrx-ajyr6U-ajypCh-8TpDvA-8TmD7P-8TmCoH-8Tmyrx-8TmB4z-8TmzQH-8TmyaB-9NJ4BP-9NY37c-9NMtBR-9NLR13-8TpthG-8Tps1s-8TmijB-8Tpov7-8TmjmK-8TpCbJ-8TmwaZ http://www.flickr.com/photos/10162480@N08/5411196954/in/photolist-9faNkd-8TpDvA-8TmD7P-8TmCoH-8Tmyrx-8TmB4z-8TmzQH-ajyB91-ajvJfK-eZfeHZ-8TmyaB-9NJ4BP-9NY37c-9NMtBR-aaNz5L-9NLR13-8TpthG-8Tps1s-8TmijB-8Tpov7-8TmjmK-8TpCbJ-8TmwaZ-8TmuPR-8TpJvU-8TmjU8-8TmBqc-8Tpw2q-8TmtaV-8BghV4-8Bfupz-8BikxQ-8Bgcs6-8BiN1E-8Bfi3a-8BiG7y-8BjowQ-8BjhCG-8Bfyzg-8BfF72-8BfRmg-8BfXSD-8BgfSc-8BiCUN-8BixSq-8Biqsf-8BiZpL-8Bg6HM-8BfriP-8Bj5QN-8BfozP http://www.flickr.com/photos/10793813@N07/975833474/in/photolist-2uepi5-2ug2Tg-2ujDwN-2umStW-2umSuE-2xiNoT-2y9YZF-2JEzME-2JEzWf-2PqFB6-35pS3b-3XXBWy-47nXxN-5bqFzv-5wFj5u-5LLDVs-63oDyH-6fK5no-6gWZ8m-6pfWLr-6pgspT-6um3GM-6uGEDv-6uGLmD-6uJ28D-6uJ4fv-6uJ4sp-6uJ4AT-6uJ4P8-6uJ5aF-6uJ5pe-6uJ5Pe-6uJ69r-6uN4XY-6uNfnu-6uNgus-6PUhQ7-6ZyUSR-711cft-71brZc-71fsiN-71yA8G-73Y95F-78qoq4-7jsrvh-7rhc5x-7XNds4-7XNdt4-8vXr8z-8vXr2K-8vXrjx Certainly a variety of DMU types on the branch. Scope for an interesting layout. Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted August 13, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2013 That first photo brings back memories. During the latter years the goods yard only handled coal for the Co-op. I remember the goods train locomotive having to go into the platform to run round its train as there was no run round facilities in the depot. During the early BR years the yard was accessed from the GE lines, the normal practice was for a down train to reverse into the yard and when returning in the up direction to push the train into the platform reversing loop and then attaching the locomotive to the up end of the train. The connection to the main line was to the up fast from the loop in the up direction. The larger (GE) goods yard closed in the mid 60's, largely due to operating difficulties. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted August 13, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2013 Just been trawling the web and come up with these on Flickr. http://www.flickr.com/photos/david_christie/6031770264/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/40047420@N05/5421618545/in/photolist-9g6diP-98ymDF-frRnPw-e4b1d7-e4mFzX-ft81Tw-e4HSwY-8TUqw4-8TXuHo-8TXuyC-e5ayVH-e1DkHL-7Nv3oW-7CLbC5-94hQmq-94eJsM-dJboAd-dJTrhs-98BxKA-dA2WKL-9BTC2F-buy9mb-e45nJe-9CksLS-9D7fp5-e3ABaU-ecRUKg-9D7fpd-7XcpSP-9CpNcJ-cXAgEA-dK3KLD-dKoMyN-eayTE9-eayFUj-eat7oX-eayV4L-eatcoK-eatb2z-eayGzo-eat57R-eat28v-eat4jT-eayNCJ-eayMTQ-eatd8g-eat1VK-eayUdy-eatbP4-eatdQK-9gzWr8 http://www.flickr.com/photos/23987565@N05/9495908916/in/photolist-ft81Tw-ecRUKg-9D7fpd-e4HSwY-7XcpSP-9CpNcJ-cXAgEA-dK3KLD-8TUqw4-8TXuHo-8TXuyC-dKoMyN-eayTE9-eayFUj-eat7oX-eayV4L-eatcoK-eatb2z-eayGzo-eat57R-eat28v-eat4jT-eayNCJ-eayMTQ-eatd8g-eat1VK-eayUdy-eatbP4-eatdQK-eat8hg-dZjKbc-dK3KUM-eat5S6-8j5FXj-8SS8s4-bXdJYK-ceA8eS-9gzWr8-cezTKE-bXdyxR-7yTjmw-dvx8Ci-dsuGdV-dWEBpS-cXAfWE-7ZLTmc-9L9PLs-7yzXAa-e4mFCB-dVUCUP-7Nr4E2 http://www.flickr.com/photos/33650137@N05/5662891000/in/photolist-9CpNcJ-cXAgEA-dK3KLD-8TUqw4-8TXuHo-8TXuyC-dKoMyN-eayTE9-eayFUj-eat7oX-eayV4L-eatcoK-eatb2z-eayGzo-eat57R-eat28v-eat4jT-eayNCJ-eayMTQ-eatd8g-eat1VK-eayUdy-eatbP4-eatdQK-eat8hg-dZjKbc-dK3KUM-eat5S6-8j5FXj-8SS8s4-bXdJYK-ceA8eS-9gzWr8-cezTKE-bXdyxR-7yTjmw-dvx8Ci-dsuGdV-dWEBpS-cXAfWE-7ZLTmc-9L9PLs-7yzXAa-e4mFCB-dVUCUP-7Nr4E2-7Nr4zg-7Nv3oq-e4CgMK-cGFzFu-9x8BkM http://www.flickr.com/photos/40052043@N03/7726688000/in/photolist-cLMi9C-9MXcsn-9MZXjQ-cgWZGs-9BTPg4-cXAfdu-b8qhyt-ajvEdR-ajytmJ-9f7DNn-9faNkd-ajyB91-ajvJfK-eZfeHZ-aaNz5L-8TpDn7-8TmwyB-8TppJJ-dJbsWm-8TpD3d-8TpCFh-8TpGgA-8TmDrx-ajyr6U-ajypCh-8TpDvA-8TmD7P-8TmCoH-8Tmyrx-8TmB4z-8TmzQH-8TmyaB-9NJ4BP-9NY37c-9NMtBR-9NLR13-8TpthG-8Tps1s-8TmijB-8Tpov7-8TmjmK-8TpCbJ-8TmwaZ http://www.flickr.com/photos/10162480@N08/5411196954/in/photolist-9faNkd-8TpDvA-8TmD7P-8TmCoH-8Tmyrx-8TmB4z-8TmzQH-ajyB91-ajvJfK-eZfeHZ-8TmyaB-9NJ4BP-9NY37c-9NMtBR-aaNz5L-9NLR13-8TpthG-8Tps1s-8TmijB-8Tpov7-8TmjmK-8TpCbJ-8TmwaZ-8TmuPR-8TpJvU-8TmjU8-8TmBqc-8Tpw2q-8TmtaV-8BghV4-8Bfupz-8BikxQ-8Bgcs6-8BiN1E-8Bfi3a-8BiG7y-8BjowQ-8BjhCG-8Bfyzg-8BfF72-8BfRmg-8BfXSD-8BgfSc-8BiCUN-8BixSq-8Biqsf-8BiZpL-8Bg6HM-8BfriP-8Bj5QN-8BfozP http://www.flickr.com/photos/10793813@N07/975833474/in/photolist-2uepi5-2ug2Tg-2ujDwN-2umStW-2umSuE-2xiNoT-2y9YZF-2JEzME-2JEzWf-2PqFB6-35pS3b-3XXBWy-47nXxN-5bqFzv-5wFj5u-5LLDVs-63oDyH-6fK5no-6gWZ8m-6pfWLr-6pgspT-6um3GM-6uGEDv-6uGLmD-6uJ28D-6uJ4fv-6uJ4sp-6uJ4AT-6uJ4P8-6uJ5aF-6uJ5pe-6uJ5Pe-6uJ69r-6uN4XY-6uNfnu-6uNgus-6PUhQ7-6ZyUSR-711cft-71brZc-71fsiN-71yA8G-73Y95F-78qoq4-7jsrvh-7rhc5x-7XNds4-7XNdt4-8vXr8z-8vXr2K-8vXrjx Certainly a variety of DMU types on the branch. Scope for an interesting layout. Rob Hi Rob The last photo of the 4-4-2 tank being watered is on the other side of Upminster station to the Romford branch. The LTS/LMS/BR goods yard in the photo was accessed from the Grays branch. The Romford branch is not railway connected to the C2C lines any more. At one time there was a set of points and crossovers that allowed BR trains to travel over the Underground lines. What a great location to model, say in the 60s. BR DMUs from Romford, London Transport Q, CO/CP and R stock, slam door Mk1 EMUs and BTH, Brush 2, English Electric type 3s hauled frieght. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Colin Posted August 13, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 13, 2013 I remember the long crossover from the Romford branch to the LTS line, BR trains crossed the LT tracks on the level via a pair of diamonds - IIRC by 1960 there wasn't any actual connection with the London Transport system, except possibly at the end of the branch platform - by the time I started to use Upminster station in the early '70s, there was no connection but a pair of back to back buffer stops at the end of the Romford branch platform implied that a former run round loop had been severed (possibly when the Romford branch got its own platform?) Upminster c.1959-1962 would have been good to model as well - the last of the oval-window "F" trains alongside the later stock on the District line, Stanier, Fairburn and BR 2-6-4Ts on LTS passenger services and the goods yard Clive mentions (which was closed & lifted in the mid-'60s). Add the occasional red LT pannier tank on service trains, DMUs to Romford and early diesels making sporadic appearances, Black 5s on summer Saturday excursions to Southend; I just wish I had the space! BTW I believe there was a recent suggestion to connect the Romford branch to the LT system (I've absolutely no idea why!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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