N Gauge Wagons - PXA / FEA-(BEFS) / KTA / KFA / Binliners

[Vonzack]

Hi Mark

 

Your improved KFA looks very good.

 

I am guessing you've already got the drawings of the Eco-Fret wagons from here: http://www.vtg-rail.co.uk/v/s/content/165356

 

There is a specifications PDF on the right hand side of the page that can be downloaded and has very useful dimensioned drawings.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

Hi Ben,

 

Yes, that's the info I've been working from and I managed to find a few photo's taken from a trade show where VTG must have had the 3 car set on display.

 

There are some major bits missing at the moment, such as the arms on the centre wagon of the 3 car set to take 20' containers and the spines on all wagons are curved rather than abrupt angles. I'm not too happy with the container guides either, the inter wagon ones look a little high and the guide at the headstock doesn't look very accurate at the moment. Lots to do

 

Cheers, Mark.

[Vonzack]

Just received notiification that the KTA is about to be shipped from Shapeways.

 

The bogies arrived over the weekend so all set to get working on it when it lands.

 

Ian

 

Hi Ian,

 

Can't wait to hear how you get on with it. Have you decided how your going to finish it, 'as new' or heavily weathered?

 

Cheers, Mark.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Vonzack

[roundhouse]

Mark

 

It will be heavily weathered as they generally are these days.

 

Ian

[roundhouse]

I have given the wagon a good scrubbing along with the other UK item from David's collection.

They are now drying but will get another scrub before I attempt to prime them.

 

Both look to be very well finished by Shape ays so far.

 

The bogies for the KTA arrived last weekend so it should get finished fairly quickly.

[porkie]

Wow i feel the need for a pair of KTA's

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi Ian,

 

That's looking very good!

 

I received a tip elsewhere to clean 3D prints with oven cleaner. I thoroughly cleaned a recent print with IPA and water and found that although the primer went in fine the subsequent enamel has taken a very long time to harden.

 

I look forward to following your progress on these!

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[roundhouse]

I couldn't resist getting this wagon on its bogies and a coat of primer.

 

As I will be using enamel paint I have used a suitable primer so hoping that it doesn't react with the finish colour as Ben mentions. I may leave the is for a week to dry.

On the Amtrak Horizon coach I used an acrylic primer and silver coat. That dried fine.

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Ian, Mark,

 

That really does look very good! I'd be interested in a photo without the container in - and how easy is it to remove the support struts?

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[roundhouse]

Ben

 

A couple of shots sans container.

 

I used my fingers to break out some of the struts then a pair of side cutters to get them cut back close to the body.

A knife removed the remainder flush to the body. The material is fairly soft so you have to be careful not to dig into the body.

 

The bogies are a bit too low to allow them to swing enough for my fiddleyard so I will pack the underside of the body with some micro strip.

Regards

Ian

[Vonzack]

Hi,

 

Ian, that's looking very good so far. As FUD is quite a soft material, I was worried about the bogie posts wearing down over time, so my designs allow .5mm so that you can install a small washer. This shouldn't be seen with the bogies in place and should lift them just enough to clear the side frames and allow them to rotate a little further.

 

Can I ask, do your Y25's have rapido or NEM pockets as it looks like you're using Dapol Knuckles?

 

Ben, I've been removing the supports in a similar way to Ian, I tend to cut the sides with a sharp knife, then I use thin nose pliers and grab the upright supports close to the wagon floor, a quick twist and they come away quite cleanly.

 

Cheers, Mark.

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi Mark,

 

Yes, I can see that would be the most efficient way of removing the support posts.

 

Regarding the bogies, assuming Ian is using the one-piece injection moulded Y25s available from the NGS, Osborne's and others then these are now available with either old style coupler pockets or with NEM sockets.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[roundhouse]

Mark

 

They are the NEM ones. The pocket is very tight when putting the Dapol Easy shunt onesi n but they do go.

 

Thanks for the info on the washers. WIll see if Ihave some suitable ones otherwise I will use some plastic packers.

 

Ian

Edited October 4, 2013 by roundhouse

[Glorious NSE]

I think the KQA were painted in Tiphook mid-blue "house" colour, but if you're modelling it as a KTA then assuming you're not doing one of the recent repaints (in GE's house blue?) then all-over frame dirt apart from a clean patch where the number is a perfectly reasonable livery!

 

Examples - GERS97768 (2005) - shows the 'all over dirt' finish.

 

 

GERS97755 (2012) is an example of the new dark blue repaints

 

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Martyn,

 

The KTA repaints do seem to be something of a half job, with mid blue sides but untouched at the ends.  IIRC the original Tiphook blue is RAL 5010 Gentian Blue, though I don't have my notes to hand.

 

Incidentally, there is an interesting table here of container companies and their appropriate RAL colours which is useful for comparing CRail/Precision container paints with RAL colours - for example Hanjin blue equates to RAL 5015 Sky Blue.

 

http://www.conpargroup.co.uk/container-paint.html

 

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Vonzack]

Hi,

 

Just a quick update as I've been making some more progress with the IIA-D. I've put the hydraulic lifting gear on the wagon ends to open the roof doors and mocked up a chassis with the tipping doors. Still lots to do, but getting there.

 

 

Also had a note from shapeways, the KFA has printed (hopefully it doesn't look like a melted curly wurly) along with the test prints for the FEA-B bogies in WSF. I was hoping to get the FEA-B too, but that was rejected for having a wall under 0.6mm.

 

Cheers, Mark.

[crunchie48]

Hi,

 

Have been following this thread with interest. 2 comments for you. I'm fairly certain its the September issue of Rail Express which has general arrangement drawings of the Drax Biomass wagons. Someone told me that the bogies are already available and under another type of wagon (the carkind escapes me).

 

Also I may have some info for the Ecofret which you may find useful. I've got a contact there who I think could be willing to assist too. 

 

Cheers

 

TC

 

 

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks for the comments on the FEA-B.

 

I take on board that Dapol will be producing future batches but I'm not sure when they intend to go to production with them. If they appear in the next few years I dare say I will buy some of them. Now that I've started the FEA-B though, I will finish it, it's still a useful test bed for other things I might work on and it's practise if nothing else

 

Here's how it looks now. I've lowered the headstocks and actually removed the lip altogether on the ends. I've added the brake cylinders and air reservoirs so it's ready for a test print.

 

FEA-B Test.jpg

 

I've also designed these bogies for the FEA-B to be printed in WSF. Although they aren't too detailed, they should be accurate enough for normal viewing distances.

 

FEA-B Bogies Temp.jpg

 

I've been looking at various other Intermodal Wagons, the FSA / FTA, KFA and EcoFret. As I have some rough dimensional drawings for the EcoFret, I'll probably move onto that first. But if anybody does have any dimensional drawings for the other types or know where they can be obtained that would be appreciated.

 

I've also started having a look at the new Biomass hoppers which are being used for Drax Power Station. I've only done the tops of the wagons so far and need to add some detail, but the overall shape is there as far as I can see.

 

Biomass Wagon.jpg

 

Cheers, Mark.

[Glorious NSE]

Have been following this thread with interest. 2 comments for you. I'm fairly certain its the September issue of Rail Express which has general arrangement drawings of the Drax Biomass wagons. Someone told me that the bogies are already available and under another type of wagon (the carkind escapes me).

 

Quick look at some images on the web suggests that TF25s as under the Farish HHA / HYA / IIA / JPA look similar, but i've not seen a closeup shot of one yet to be sure. 

[Vonzack]

Hi Guys,

 

OK, so the test print of the KFA has arrived and the results are a bit mixed. Here are some pics (excuse the wrong bogies and 6.2mm wheels)

 

 

 

The deck of the wagon looks very good and has printed well. The centre of the wagon is solid despite its looks, but there are problems around the bogie posts as the deck and the lower profile supports are just not adequate. I'm not too unhappy about this as I can easily increase the deck depth and the supports without affecting the look of the wagon. Even allowing for the increased height on the 6.2mm wheels, the spine of the wagon isn't deep enough which makes it look a little squashed, so I also need to increase the depth of the spine. The headstocks and container guides look good, not sure about the tie down loops, these look way too big and I'll probably drop these from the model even though they are on the prototype as they just don't look right.

 

I also received the test prints of the FEA-B bogies and I'm really quite pleased with the results, allowing for the fact they are printed in WSF. I intend to use them with Parkside 'Top Hat' bearings and 5.1mm wheelsets and as a test bed they work pretty well. After the bearings have been pushed into the sides of the bogie, the wheels just slot in and they seem to roll very well. The only observation is that the WSF material is quite flexible and if you put allot of weight on the bogies the sides deflect and the wheels pop out. Again this looks like something that can be fixed easily with some additional material to thicken up the bogie sides a little and to stiffen them up.

 

I may even be tempted to run some off in FUD, although they would be expensive to produce as single items, packaged with a wagon the cost would be more reasonable and some of the detail lost with WSF would come out.

 

 

The test of the FEA-B is in production and might be here for the end of the week fingers crossed.

 

Cheers, Mark.

[roundhouse]

Mark

 

That looks excellent.

 

That will be a very useful addition to the container fleet.

 

Ian

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Mark,

 

That KFA looks very promising.  I agree about the tie-down loops; I'd be inclined to use ones from the TPM ferrywagon detailing etch.  Or you could use spare ones from NGS kits - I am pretty sure there are a few spares on the JJA etches, and there certainly are going to be on the KSA etches (I know because I drew them.)

 

How is the weight?  Did you design it to include some metal in the end?

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[bmthtrains - David]

Be careful if using FUD for bogies, they are very brittle and I found in my experimentations that the slightest pressure when clipping the axel into the top hat can cause the sides to sheer off.

 

Bogies are probably the most un 3D printer friendly things we can model - annoying really!

 

David

[Steven B]

Perhaps it would be better not to print the bogies in one peice, but a kit made of bolster and two outer cosmetic frames. You could then make basic bogies out of stronger, less detailed material and glue the detailed frames on the top.

 

Or why not use the 2mmSA etched bogie frames and adding 3D printed overlays on top? (Or ask Worsley Works to do somehting for you).

 

There's still an awfull lot of modelling for which a bit of etched metal is a much better solution than 3D printing.

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B

Edited October 8, 2013 by Steven B

[Etched Pixels]

3D overlays on etched cores doesn't actually work too well with N gauge axle lengths at least - it would probably work with 2fs wheels for some things but the minimum wall thickness drives you over-width very easily.

[Etched Pixels]

David - stick the bogies in hot (60°C or so) water when fitting the wheels. Same trick as heating resin to drill it for handrails - the warmer it is (within reason) the more pliable it gets. Don't go much hotter though as it rapidly goes through the "editable" stage (which can be really useful for things like printing security barrier then adjusting it when fitting) and the 'oh dear' stage.

 

I've been avoiding FUD for bogies likewise though - too light, too brittle. 3D printed Brass bogies OTOH ought to have awesome running behaviour so I may try some brass bogies for a couple of awkward projects.

 

Alan

Edited October 8, 2013 by Etched Pixels

[Vonzack]

Hi,

 

Ben, the KFA is very light (mental note to weigh it later), but I did design it so the centre of the spine is hollow, so that additional weight could be added.

 

David, I agree, it's a real shame that we can produce some interesting models, but that bogies seem to be a step too far with the technology at the moment.

 

Steven, I guess for me, 3D printing is more accessable, I wouldn't really know where to start with etches.

 

Alan, I would be interested to hear how your Brass Printed bogies come out if you decide to do them. Although this seems to be quite an expensive option and still lacking detail levels at the moment, from shapeways at least.

 

Cheers, Mark.