Dual scale layouts

[cromptonnut]

Yes, I mean scale, not gauge.  I know there are plenty of layouts that use dual gauges, ie a main line with narrow gauge feeder, but that's not what I mean.

 

Where in the foreground you have one scale, and then tucked away in the background you use items from a smaller scale to give an impression of compressed distance and perspective.

 

An example would be using N gauge low relief buildings and vehicles on the backscene but OO elsewhere, and some fields, embankments or other visual tricks to fool the eye into making the depth look much more than it is.

 

I vaguely remember seeing one many years ago which was N gauge in the foreground and Z gauge in the background, and I have a feeling that it was in an old carriage at a preserved railway somewhere but cannot remember any more details as you're probably looking at 30 years back.

 

I was just wondering if anyone had tried this and worked successfully, or could point me towards any layouts that had used this trick.

 

 

[Xerces Fobe2]

Always toyed with doing something along these lines, however you are effectively distorting perspectives which is not easy to do convincingly.

 

XF

[cromptonnut]

That was my concern, it would either be very effective or very bad... and I just wondered if anyone had successfully achieved it without using 8ft deep boards

[cromptonnut]

Five minutes gives me a rough showing of what it might look like.

 

Foreground - a Lima O gauge coach.

 

Background - Bachmann OO stock.

 

Distance between the two - 18 inches.

 

I know that this doesn't really give a great deal of idea but it'd be interesting to hear your thoughts.

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

^{There is a one example of this kind of modelling that I've seen that is REALLY convincing ... that was a Dutch Tramway diorama which was shown at Warley National exhibition last year .... it was very high quality modelling. It used forced perspective in a small showcase. It was VERY simple but very clever.}

 

^{The problem with this kind of project is that you have to view it at eye level ..... so the photo  of the Lima O gauge coach and the OO stock does look effective because it's viewed from eye level ... it you looked down on the layout ... like at most shows it would look very unconvincing.}

[cromptonnut]

A good point, so you'd have to have the layout at "eye level" which then makes it less appealing to children and others who expect to be able to "look down" at things.

 

Like you say, it may work in a "framed small layout" but I'm not sure it will work so well in a more traditional open, larger layout scenario.

 

I've not spent any time or money so if it really is an epic fail it's no big deal, but it's sometimes good to bounce ideas off of others.

[fender]

Paul Lunn has quite a few ideas using this concept in his book Building Micro Layouts.

[Ramblin Rich]

I knew I'd seen this discussed on another thread & finally tracked it down: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/23298-costleigh-4mm-layout-mainly-br-blue/?p=1020989

[edcayton]

Copenhagen Fields and Clutton are two that come to mind that use this technique for the scenery.

 

Ed

[Kenton]

Very difficult to do convincingly especially when the differences in scale are large. The human brain is not that easy to fool especially at the inevitably sudden, interface. Also problematic where there is any movement.

 

However, where there is a small change in scale for example using 3.5mm to the foot rather than 4mm to the foot. or the use of different scales on NG layouts it can be done with some effect. To some extent we all use it without knowing as soon as we introduce compression into our track plans. We try to make it realistic and at the same time prototypical but more often than not the curves are too sharp and the goods shed was away down the tracks with sidings that could hold 100's of wagons not the proscribed Inglenook 5.

 

I guess the P4 proponents would say that all OO modellers do this all the time without knowing it. Running 4mm/ft stock on 3.5mm to the foot track.

[Kris]

To get away with it you either need to force the viewing angle or have a large depth of board, but even with the latter I suspect that you will need to force the angle of view. 

[cromptonnut]

I think it's probably impractical for my situation but as always it's good to bounce ideas.

[Happy Hippo]

I'm  doing it in the garden with 1.5" gauge track representing 18" gauge in 1:12 and 20" gauge in 1:13.7.

 

By using buildings at 'stand off' distances, the .125" (1/8") per foot difference becomes un-noticable.

 

Yet when you stand locos and stock alongside each other the difference is significant.

 

Regards

 

Richard

[beast66606]

When Chris Hewit (assisted by myself and MikeT) made Olive Mount we used HO stock on the gridiron to try to give the impression of distance. Not sure it was that successful tbh.

[justin1985]

Copenhagen Fields has a T Gauge version of the North London Line EMUs running on a shuttle at the background. If the operators are particularly attentive, you'll see the 2mm EMU disappear into the tunnel mid way back across the layout, and an appropriate amount of time later, the T gauge one "continues the journey" at the very back. I don't believe we were able to set it up at Alexandra Palace this year though.

 

The layout does use forced perspective right the way across its depth, but then its depth is much larger than might appear from seeing it in pictures, or even viewing only from the front at exhibitions!  

[PLD]

Once while operating Barrowfleet which features 00 standard guage in the background and 009 narrow gauge in the foreground the conversation between two elderly gents watching went something like:

 

"What a good idea to use different scales to give the impression of perspective."

 

"yes but they've got it the wrong way round - the small stuff should be at the back..."

[Dzine]

Superb way of showing the result, the effectiveness of what you've done illustrates just how well the concept can work,,,yes it's about refinement, view points, view blocking and so on. regards Paul

Five minutes gives me a rough showing of what it might look like.

 

Foreground - a Lima O gauge coach.

 

Background - Bachmann OO stock.

 

Distance between the two - 18 inches.

 

I know that this doesn't really give a great deal of idea but it'd be interesting to hear your thoughts.

 

 

Five minutes gives me a rough showing of what it might look like.

 

Foreground - a Lima O gauge coach.

 

Background - Bachmann OO stock.

 

Distance between the two - 18 inches.

 

I know that this doesn't really give a great deal of idea but it'd be interesting to hear your thoughts.

 

[hartleymartin]

It has been done with O scale. 1/43 in the foreground, and 1/48 behind, and even in some cases 1/50 scale buildings (1/50 is an architectural scale). It isn't all that unusual to have stuff right behind the 1/43 scale trains to be in 1/45 scale either.

[RJS1977]

I think the layout the OP's referring to is/was in a carriage at Bewdley, and appeared in RM many years ago ("Wribbenhall Jcn" IIRC).

Of course, Jack Nelson used forced perspective a lot, sometimes looking along the tracks! There was a picture in the Constructor many years ago of one such instance with a freight train coming towards the viewer, where each wagon was a different scale!

 

And PECO built a demonstration "indoor garden" layout for the Trade Fair many years ago, where each track going progressively higher up a "mountain" was a different scale, but this wasn't an exercise in perspective as such (scenery was minimal and some lines actually crossed over each other!), just a means of showcasing their track in as many scales as they could in a limited space!