Colin parks Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 Nice work with the jigs, I wonder if they'd be usable made up for the 4DD's unique window arrangement... hmm Are you building a 4 DD Kelly? Good luck there then! Howard has produced the jigs to cut accurately when the folded up flange, which can just be seen through the triangular aperture at the base, is located along the bottom edge of a coach side. The 4 DD was rather different in design, so would need a specific jig. Mind you, this one will do the 4 SUB, 4 EPB, 2 EPB and most of a Tin HAL and 2 HAP (all these of Bulleid design) So, quite a lot of 'bang for your buck'. All the best, Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Are you building a 4 DD Kelly? Good luck there then! Howard has produced the jigs to cut accurately when the folded up flange, which can just be seen through the triangular aperture at the base, is located along the bottom edge of a coach side. The 4 DD was rather different in design, so would need a specific jig. Mind you, this one will do the 4 SUB, 4 EPB, 2 EPB and most of a Tin HAL and 2 HAP (all these of Bulleid design) So, quite a lot of 'bang for your buck'. All the best, Colin I've always wanted to, just not gotten round to it as yet is all. Was going to try doing it in plasticard along similar lines to your methods, tho i don't expect for a minute to meet your excellent standards, but getting the basic shape/dimensions would suffice to me for the most part perhaps from thre as a mould master? the curvature is the issue really. The other thought of course was to teach myself CAD and do the 3D printing route, which is probably the best way, certainly for the unique bogies too. Those jogs would be useful as I want to produce a 4EPB (currently planning on doing the Replica conversion method) at some stage. 2/4EPBs and 465/466s would suit my needs for what I've got planned layout wise, along with 4SUBs and 4DDs for differing period options (plan to do the early 90s when the networkers were first coming into service with 2/4EPBs, but back dating to when 4SUBs would of been used is an option too). (area being based upon woolwich dockyard/sand lane, final plan not quite finalised though yet). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 The needle is obviously the way forward - should save a lot of tedious marking and potential errors. Very neat idea - well done to you and Howard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted October 18, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 18, 2013 That jig is a work of genius, now how can I twist Howards arm to do a range for HR (and other LMS) coaches!?? Andy G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) The method works for smaller jobs too. I made this jig for marking out my 4mm Cavalier door handles: It's double sided so the handles would be in the same relative positions on the other side too. There's a bit of trial and error opening out the hole until the needle score comes out the size you want; I'm sure your etched jig must have gone through a similar process in that respect. Note the thin slivers of plastic to ensure it held firmly round the 'B' pillar. The last thing you want is a jig that moves while you're using it! Edited July 1, 2017 by BernardTPM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted October 19, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2013 Mind you, this one will do the 4 SUB, 4 EPB, 2 EPB and most of a Tin HAL and 2 HAP (all these of Bulleid design) Does this mean you may be thinking of making models of more EMUs? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) The needle is obviously the way forward - should save a lot of tedious marking and potential errors. Very neat idea - well done to you and Howard! Thanks Bernard, but the idea is entirely Howard's. As you say the jig will save a lot of time. I am still marking out the set of sides in pencil with witness lines just to keep track of where the jig should be placed. All the best, Colin Edited October 19, 2013 by Colin parks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 The method works for smaller jobs too. I made this jig for marking out my 4mm Cavalier door handles: It's double sided so the handles would be in the same relative positions on the other side too. There's a bit of trial and error opening out the hole until the needle score comes out the size you want; I'm sure your etched jig must have gone through a similar process in that respect. Note the thin slivers of plastic to ensure it held firmly round the 'B' pillar. The last thing you want is a jig that moves while you're using it! That looks like a good jig Bernard. I would agree that a jig must stay in place while marking out. I have only a few minutes experience of Howard's jig, but it stayed put with just finger pressure from the left hand. I believe Howard has been using his jig held with double-sided tape. All the best, Colin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Does this mean you may be thinking of making models of more EMUs? Hi Budgie, Well, I might be doing a few more EMUs I suppose. The cutting of the sides takes only a fraction of the time required to construct a whole model (about 10%). However, you have seen the layout running at Tonbridge and would have noted it is was designed more for wagon operation than passenger trains. I think a new layout is now needed to run the rather large fleet of EMUs to good effect. All the best, Colin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 (edited) Some work in progress shots of window cutting on the TSO sides. This first photo shows the scribing under way on the second side. The material used is 10 thou. Slater's Plastikard. The generic stuff is not so soft and possibly more liable becoming brittle over time. (You get what you pay for etc., etc.) The scribing complete for the second side's windows to be cut. The scribing causes a temporary distortion of the side at this point. Once the windows are cut, the side returns to being absolutely flat. This leads me to think that scribing then cutting through is the method which causes the least stress on the plastic and least wear on the jig. (The scribed lines being cut through free-hand with the knife.) The resultant piece, with the top row lightly sanded and refined, the lower row are as-cut. Each side has taken approx. 1 hour to complete instead of the usual two. Not mentioned before is the fact that the jig is designed to be exactly the width of a production SUB compartment. This takes a lot of laborious calculation and measuring out of the process. I have also learnt that I need a new cutting mat dedicated to this process. Not one covered in superglue and pock-marked with holes! The jig after use on two sides. There is no appreciable wear. This is Howard's 'zero allowance' jig, which has proved just right for use with the fine needle. Quite extravagantly, I have been changing knife blades after cutting one side. Next up will be the two pairs of motor coach sides - a veritable sea of windows to cut. Colin Edited October 20, 2013 by Colin parks 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Eight knife blades later, the windows are all cut, tidied up and the sides carefully sanded back and front. Next to be done is marking of the door furniture and door lines (Howard has helpfully included jigs for this too). The pairs of sides will then be cut to length and parted from each other. There are 260 windows in the full set. The second pair of sides from the top are those for the curiously named "pseudo-composite", which looks quite different to the open second's closely spaced sides above it. All this now has to be translated into curved and laminated sides, which will follow the same method as that on the Tin HAL built last year. I must confess that today my wrists hurt and my right hand aches! Colin 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) Well done though, Colin. Break open a new tube of Deep Heat! Edited October 21, 2013 by BernardTPM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) Well done though, Colin. Break open a new tube of Deep Heat! Thanks Bernard, Due to the cutting done yesterday I am really hurting today. Apart from stupid things to do with soldering, I have never done any modelling which actually hurt before now! All the best, Colin (Edit to remove censored word hashes. I really can't remember what was written that could have caused offence.) Edited October 23, 2013 by Colin parks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Darkened room time! Those sides look almost too good to progress with nasty glue and shaping and such like. In a day or two Colin the aches will subside and I am sure you will be left with a pressing desire to knock out a few more units worth. Great work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Eight knife blades later, the windows are all cut, tidied up and the sides carefully sanded back and front. Next to be done is marking of the door furniture and door lines (Howard has helpfully included jigs for this too). The pairs of sides will then be cut to length and parted from each other. IMG_7146 (1280x960).jpg There are 260 windows in the full set. The second pair of sides from the top are those for the curiously named "pseudo-composite", which looks quite different to the open second's closely spaced sides above it. All this now has to be translated into curved and laminated sides, which will follow the same method as that on the Tin HAL built last year. I must confess that today my wrists hurt and my right hand aches! Colin Great work Colin as usual Time for something different for a day or two perhaps to let your hands/wrists recover a bit? all that plastic fettling/cutting/scoring is bound to take its toll, a form of RSI if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Bel Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Hi Colin, The sides look excellent. Just drilling the holes for the door furniture is enough for me after one coach. You must have the patience of a saint and forearms like Popeye! Once again excellent work. Cheers for now, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I'll just echo the above Colin. Great work, (and an inspiration!). Cheers. Sean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 a form of RSI if you like. Repetitive SUB Injury? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 27, 2013 Author Share Posted October 27, 2013 (edited) Hands aching again: Next on the to-do list were the 78 drop light/top light layers which increase the depth of the drop light window and add the inner frame to the top light on each door. I am still unsure of the exact dimensions of the cab door window. The plan I am using has a wooden framed drop light which is not correct, so what is seen here is guess work after studying photos. The sides have now been trimmed to length, parted, holes drilled for all door furniture and the door lines scribed in. HAB's (Howard's) set of jigs have the holes etched in to double as a drilling jig and there is another jig for scribing the door opening too. Now, the gaps above the doors are 50% too deep. This is Howard's idea (it had better work Howard!) of how to represent the subtle water strips above the doors: once the sides are fixed to the roof and smoothed down, a strip of 10 thou. x 0.5mm will be inserted in the resultant 0.5mm x 10 thou. deep slot and set at right angles to the side. This should leave a gap of 0.25mm above the door - well, that's the theory! Colin Edited October 27, 2013 by Colin parks 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermoth Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 "10 thou. X 0.5mm" !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted October 27, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 27, 2013 "10 thou. X 0.5mm" !! Hi Tigermoth I think Colin went to same engineering school as the Marconi draftsmen. It was quite common, when I worked for them, to see drawings for something as simple as a cover to have "All dimensions in mm, to be made of 1/8th inch stock steel". Plastic card is sold in thou. not in mm if it were I am sure the dimension would have been 0.25 x 0.5mm strips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 27, 2013 Author Share Posted October 27, 2013 "10 thou. X 0.5mm" !! Yes Tigermoth, Those are the dimensions of the strips to be used. The quote also describes what they are to be made of: 0.5mm wide strips cut from a sheet of 10 thou. thick plastic sheet. I have never actually measured a sheet of plastic with a micrometer, but the stuff has always been sold in imperial measurements as far as thickness goes and metric for the sheet size. Most of the time I cut strips myself rather than buy Plastruct, which is sold in metric sizes. If something is used as bought, i.e. Slater's 1.5mm square strip, then that is what it would be called in a post (although I suspect Slater's just cut up 60 thou. sheets to make it!) Clive has got it bang on: all cuts are made in metric, but all sheet thicknesses are in thousandths of an inch. It is easy enough to think of a sheet of 40 thou. as being a scale 3" (the exact dimension would be be 0.3937 thou. of an inch to four 'decimal' places, so close enough!). So, to summarise, if the abbreviation 'thou.' is used by me, it is always related to sheet thickness. All the best, Colin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermoth Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Same for me all, locomotive chassis construction in millimetres except for the axles and bearings which are in imperial, i have come across an Italian battery locomotive for real where the chassis and all the parts are measured in imperial and the body in millimetres. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted October 27, 2013 Author Share Posted October 27, 2013 Lamination of the sides as got under way. Here, the top strip of 20 thou. x 1.5mm is being applied. The brush used for application of solvent is an old 000 sable one and it is not over-charged with solvent either. Too much solvent at this stage = disaster. Once the strips were on, it seemed like a good time to bevel the tops of the doors by gently scraping from side to side with the knife blade thus: More laminating later on, but first a gentle curve must be put in each side below window level and likewise for the strips of 20 thou. plastic which will become the lower laminations. Colin 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAB Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 This is Howard's idea (it better work Howard!) .. no pressure there then! Great stuff as ever Colin! Best wishes, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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