andyman7 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 I've posted this here rather than in the 'I saw this on ebay' thread as I think it is more relevant here. This item has just sold on ebay (for £239.56) no bids at all until the last seconds, but unsurprisingly it wasn't just me that had spotted the roller pickups. Assuming it's genuine it would be one of a tiny surviving handful of the very first Princess locos produced with plastic chassis and roller pickups that were manufactured for use in the first Rovex train sets made for Marks and Spencer at Christmas 1950. The mechanism didn't work very well and was quickly redesigned with plunger pickups and a metal chassis frame. The seller is in 'Minster, Kent, which is either Isle of Sheppey or near Ramsgate. Amongst the other items for sale was a GWR 150th anniversary 0-4-0 with certificate number 0002. This rather lends credence the the idea that this lot came from an ex-employee of Rovex/Hornby Hobbies (probably from their estate). That, and the rubbish picture/description, suggests that the item is genuine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted September 3, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 3, 2013 I would LOVE one, I have motor though, so if one turned up sans motor ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spet0114 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Nice! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 She appears to have survived without warping too much too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted September 4, 2013 Author Share Posted September 4, 2013 She appears to have survived without warping too much too. As the photo omits the front footplate/steps it's not possible to be absolutely sure, as that is one area where warping can cause a severe upturn. The tender also appears to have a chunk missing from the front/side (quite a common area of damage). But as I understand it the number of known surviving examples is vanishingly small so this is one of those items where the usual maxim about condition doesn't really apply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted September 7, 2013 Share Posted September 7, 2013 The tender underframe seems particularly prone to bowing upwards in the centre. I have one (with a polystyrene body), which is so afflicted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Leggett Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Hi All Just spotted your comments on the Roller Princess. I am a Tri-ang Collector and also work for SAS Auctions. We have two genuine Roller Princesses in the Trains Galore Auction on Dec 12th. They are from the family of the founder of Rovex and also includes other Trains and Rovex Toys as well as early correspondence and accounts. Both are in excellent little used condition. The one sold on ebay in September obviously was badly listed as no one from the Triang egroup spotted it (or if they did , decided not to mention it!) Anyway thought you might like to know Cheers bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted October 15, 2013 Author Share Posted October 15, 2013 Thanks for posting those photos - unsurprisingly, everyone who spotted it on ebay kept their powder dry until the last few seconds (including me) but to be honest I'm glad it is now in the realms of genuine collectors - it is so rare and there's always the risk with these things that an unknowing soul gives it to little Johnny or even worse chucks it in the bin! I suspect that properly catalogued and put through a reputable auction house the price will be way out of my league but it's good to see decent photos of the underside - neither Pat Hammond's book nor the 1979 Hornby Book of Trains show this angle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evanelpus Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I would LOVE one, I have motor though, so if one turned up sans motor ...... The motors in the mark one (roller) and mark two (plunger) Lizzies were just unaltered Zenith motors. They must have been popular because Scalemaster also used the Zenith armature in their motors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 They were sold off at a relatively low price. Possibly due to commutator problems as one of Tri-ang's first modifications was to change it from a disc to a drum. I think my KMR compound has one (certainly something similar). The motor runs, but the disc commutator,brush gear is too delicate for serious use Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 For those interested I see that both the roller princesses at the Trains Galore auction made good prices. Both came with a few bits of early brass track and two coaches, both lots sold for £1600 each. I think my ceiling would've been about half that if I'd gone (I was considering it). Be interesting to see when one of them changes hands again - could be a long while. It's worth noting that, as above, they belonged to the family who owned Rovex. I'd love to have one, but it's too bad! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 For those interested I see that both the roller princesses at the Trains Galore auction made good prices. Both came with a few bits of early brass track and two coaches, both lots sold for £1600 each. ..... I feel quite faint now.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I feel quite faint now.... Better hope Gostude didn't buy them - you might never recover once you see how much he'll put them up for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 I did follow the auction and whilst the Roller Princesses went way beyond my league it was interesting to benchmark their value! With the one on ebay that started this thread, it was very difficult to establish a 'fair' bid due both to the poor description/photo and the lack of a known going rate - but we can see that a grand-and-a-half is about where they're at! I did pick up the trade pack of 3 plunger Princesses which went for under £100 - given their spectacular condition I thought it was well worth it! . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Just thinking - Rovex was owned by the (three) Lines brothers (three Lines make a Tri-angle!). Maybe the two locos in the auction and the one one ebay belonged one each to the three brothers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 14, 2013 Author Share Posted December 14, 2013 A number of the Rovex lots sold by SAS had been the property of a 'Mr Vanetzian' who had clearly been closely associated with the company in the early 1950s,as the lots included documentation and correspondence as well as Rovex toys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Shame on Rovex, those front wheels have but 6 spokes... I won't buy one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotrail1 Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Hello, I saw with interest that you were discussing princesses. I found a princess and was trying to figure out which one she is. Unfortunately no motor or pick up. My research leads me to believe she is one of the first two versions? Any help would be greatly appreciated Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwich station Posted May 29, 2014 Share Posted May 29, 2014 Are the loco driving wheels plastic or metal? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I believe the first series had roller pickups and the second plungers, both with plastic wheels. Tri-ang fitted metal (sintered iron) driving wheels and the mark II coupling and replaced the motor. Early examples were made from cellulose acetate and all suffer from warping to a lesser or greater degree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotrail1 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Are the loco driving wheels plastic or metal? plastic. not sure if the photo helps. Shame it lost its motor along the way Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted May 30, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2014 looks like a plunger pickup version to me, minus plungers .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 Yes it is. I have discovered a body variation with the early Princess - sometime in 1951 locating lugs were added to the inner face of the front bufferbeam to aid location of the chassis rails. Ironically, this exacerbated the distortion of the cellulose acetate bodies - the ones with this modification have a very pronounced upward curve to the front footsteps that the ones without seem to escape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 A number of the Rovex lots sold by SAS had been the property of a 'Mr Vanetzian' who had clearly been closely associated with the company in the early 1950s,as the lots included documentation and correspondence as well as Rovex toys. Mr Vanetzian, or Mr. Alexander Gregory Vanetzian was the founder of Rovex Limited. Founded in Chelsea in 1946. Sold model plastic toys to Marks and Spencer. Moved to Richmond where the train set was developed. later taken over by Lines Bros. (Tri-ang) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Hello, I saw with interest that you were discussing princesses. I found a princess and was trying to figure out which one she is. Unfortunately no motor or pick up. My research leads me to believe she is one of the first two versions? Any help would be greatly appreciated This is the Rovex Coupling (on the tender) version of the "Plunger" Princess, with metal frames, laminated main weight, and plastic wheels. C 1951-1952 The later photos show that one mounting bracket for the Starboard (right) plunger is present. You may find some lead as extra weight inside the body (in the firebox end). This is original, and was made from lead recovered from the copings of the Richmond factory walls! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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