Ruffnut Thorston Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Yes it is. I have discovered a body variation with the early Princess - sometime in 1951 locating lugs were added to the inner face of the front bufferbeam to aid location of the chassis rails. Ironically, this exacerbated the distortion of the cellulose acetate bodies - the ones with this modification have a very pronounced upward curve to the front footsteps that the ones without seem to escape. The original Rovex tool was replaced due to damage, a crack in the smokebox, C1952. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 The original Rovex tool was replaced due to damage, a crack in the smokebox, C1952. Yes, but this variation exists on the original body tool! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Hmmm. interesting, I'll have to have a look at ours! On a similar note, "brackets" were added to the TC Series R.56 4-6-4 Baltic Tank body to stop the sides coming inwards by the cylinders..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tearaway Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I have 3 of the roller Princesses, two first production run types and one final production run type with the later rounded plunger heads. Best to sum up how they perform. Hauling power on Series 3 track = 4 x 9 Inch coaches on 1st radius curves on level surface without any wheel spin pulling away!!. It was actually better than the later Triang 0-4-0 shunter and the 1955 Jinty in this respect. Speed flat out light engine = within scale speed. Points problems = Only with Super 4 point frogs, OK with Series 3 and OK with Universal Mark.3. (1958 to 1960) points. Coupling = Despite what one reads the myth that they are not automatic is not true. The Mark.I. coupling operates just fine with automatic hooking up and unhooking when operated by uncoupling ramps pushing up on the counter weight with original Universal track power straight / uncoupler, Universal track R.177 uncoupler, Series 3 uncoupler and Super 4 uncoupler. To couple with Mark.II. and Mark.III. coupling loops manual human interevntion is required and auto-uncouplers won't work with mixed couplings like this. Best option is to fit a loop onto a converter wagon for the loco to attach to. To keep authentic to the period a Trackmaster wagon could be modified in this simple way. On coaches this need to be attached to the top of the bogie frame, not under it as Mark.I. coupling hoops sit high. The Mark.I. is silightly more positive than the Mark.II. coupling over bumps. Unlike the Mark.II. and Mark.III. pushing rolling stock over uneven track doesn't result in coupling jumping and derailment so 10 out of 10 in this respect. Noticeable traits: Right hand plungers become hot in forward direction, left hand plunger in reverse. Plungers clean the track nicely. On the rounded head plunger types with the red PVC tape insulation this is a problem as it melts pretty easily which might explain why all the chassis I find with the plungers missing or removed have the rounded head type. Shunting works very well and the loco is nice and responsive. The Rovex X01 motor is a tad underpowered (about 66% of an X03 / X04) but gives scale speed over a wide range of controlled settings. Slow running is surprisingly good. Front warping of the buffer beam can be prevented / fixed by reinstating the missing underside chassis nose screw installed to stop this from happening when the model was originally made. Later models with this problem have a long screw through the chimney to attach the body to the chassis and the screw was omitted despite the hole and lug still being there. Tends to derail a lot of Universal track and works best on Series 3 and Super 4 plus modern Code 100 track. Temporary fixes to lack of plunger problems just to see it running: Convert the locomotive to tender pick up using scalextric brushes trailing from the tender or a later 1960's tender chassis with metal wheels and pick ups fitted. Summary: A very good, reliable locomotive that is still serviceable on a modern model railway layout as it is or with tender pick ups. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 I'd expect a Princess to be more powerful than a Jinty.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tearaway Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I was surprised that the plastic wheels gripped as well but they do have the same friction properties as the sintered iron and mazak wheels, which are also smooth. I think the weight of the chassis helps with the Princess as it is heavier than the Jinty steel plate chassis. I should try one without the lead weight in to see the difference. Should I convert one to Zero One operation?? There is plenty of room for either the Hornby or Hammant & Morgan made double transistor chips. Can't see why folks think that the disc commutator is such a problem?? Lima used disc commutators for year and they had no problems..... er...... come to think of it, Lima locos are notorious for commutator brush tension and running problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tearaway Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Just spotted on E-Bay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rovex-train-set-pre-triang-RARE/321933660986?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3D44b0ca76dd4b4eb38b0eb962b32a9d94%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D111814357195&autorefresh=true A complete pre-Triang Rovex trainset..... best sit down before checking the price though..... I already have 3 of the locos and the coaches so I'm not actually interested in these parts, however the track does interest me plus the rarest of rare Triang items, the R46 and R47 Rovex Series 1 to Triang Universal Track (Series 2) converter pieces. Has anybody ever seen these pieces outside of a book?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Speaking of early Tri-ang sets, I'm sure I recall a "power pack" consisting of a plastic top which fitted onto two or three large, square dry cells? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Just spotted on E-Bay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rovex-train-set-pre-triang-RARE/321933660986?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3D44b0ca76dd4b4eb38b0eb962b32a9d94%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D111814357195&autorefresh=true A complete pre-Triang Rovex trainset..... best sit down before checking the price though..... I already have 3 of the locos and the coaches so I'm not actually interested in these parts, however the track does interest me plus the rarest of rare Triang items, the R46 and R47 Rovex Series 1 to Triang Universal Track (Series 2) converter pieces. Has anybody ever seen these pieces outside of a book?? I have not only seen them....I have some....! One is Tri-ang Universal to ROVEX with the ROVEX "Tongue" fitting. The other Tri-ang Universal to ROVEX with the ROVEX "Slot" fitting. (I can't remember which R. No. is which off hand...) Last sold as a pair, one of each. I'll have to look them out.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather gardener Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 My father bought me a Rovex train set at the beginning of the 1950s. I am having a clear out now and it has come to light. I have looked on eBay and see that there is an interest for these so I need advice on what to do with it and how much it is worth. It is in its original plain red box with a white label. This has a 2" circular patch of wasp damage on one side. The engine, tender and carriages are in their original boxes. It has the original track the pieces of which only fit one way round plus there is another load of track and a couple of later Triang points. The battery box is I think complete but was modified with a speed control and somehow it was linked to the mains. I dont know how as there is no transformer. The Princess engine looks in good condition and connects to the tender with a plain hook and loop on the tender. There are the original 2 coaches + an extra one minus box. All of the carriages have banana'd. There are various Mettoy signals etc plus 3 Triang boxed items which fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 Speaking of early Tri-ang sets, I'm sure I recall a "power pack" consisting of a plastic top which fitted onto two or three large, square dry cells? It took two 6V 'lantern' batteries and had a Forward-Off-Reverse switch on the top. The similar Dublo devices, (which use three 4.5V 'bell' batteries) were alleged to give nine hours running, which, at the price these batteries cost*, ensured very little running was done without a second mortgage. Being made of acetate, they've probably warped beyond use by now IIRC around 3/- or so for the 'bell' and 4/6 for the 'lantern'. I don't think the 'bell' type is still available (it might be), but the 'lanterns' cost around £4-5. 'Lanterns' have a large spring on the top to make contact, whilst 'bells' have two screw terminals. They would last a long time in their intended function - the 'bells' probably started leaking before they lost charge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 It took two 6V 'lantern' batteries and had a Forward-Off-Reverse switch on the top. The similar Dublo devices, (which use three 4.5V 'bell' batteries) were alleged to give nine hours running, which, at the price these batteries cost*, ensured very little running was done without a second mortgage. Being made of acetate, they've probably warped beyond use by now IIRC around 3/- or so for the 'bell' and 4/6 for the 'lantern'. I don't think the 'bell' type is still available (it might be), but the 'lanterns' cost around £4-5. 'Lanterns' have a large spring on the top to make contact, whilst 'bells' have two screw terminals. They would last a long time in their intended function - the 'bells' probably started leaking before they lost charge. The original Roves and Tri-ang Battery Boxes were for "Lantern" type batteries. The later Black Battery "Top" was the same type as the later Dublo type. 3 "Bell" Batteries. 1959 Tri-ang Train Sets had these... Funny enough, later Hornby (Margate) train sets had a battery top to fit two 6Volt "Lantern" (Ever Ready 996) batteries.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockershovel Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 The square one with the screw terminals was the one I was thinking of. I remember it being part of tne train set. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Just spotted on E-Bay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rovex-train-set-pre-triang-RARE/321933660986?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3D44b0ca76dd4b4eb38b0eb962b32a9d94%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D111814357195&autorefresh=true A complete pre-Triang Rovex trainset..... best sit down before checking the price though..... I already have 3 of the locos and the coaches so I'm not actually interested in these parts, however the track does interest me plus the rarest of rare Triang items, the R46 and R47 Rovex Series 1 to Triang Universal Track (Series 2) converter pieces. Has anybody ever seen these pieces outside of a book?? I have not only seen them....I have some....! One is Tri-ang Universal to ROVEX with the ROVEX "Tongue" fitting. The other Tri-ang Universal to ROVEX with the ROVEX "Slot" fitting. (I can't remember which R. No. is which off hand...) Last sold as a pair, one of each. I'll have to look them out.... Yes, I have a couple of converter tracks too - I picked up some at the Chatham show a couple of years ago in a junk box for 10p each.... The Plunger Princess Rovex train set is not so uncommon, but it is incredibly hard to find in mint or near mint condition. Let's just say it took me about 25 years to find one in such a condition, and then I had to pay a price not dis-similar to the one on ebay, but by that time I knew that if the condition was right, I shouldn't leave it behind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tearaway Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I spent this afternoon overhauling a Rovex Plunger Princess after aquiring another "wreck" chassis. It donated a set of brushes and a plunger. I now have a Rovex Plunger Princess running a left hand 1953 triang round foot plunger with red insulation and a right hand Rovex flat foot plunger. It will do until I can find another Rovex flat foot plunger. This set me to thinking about the differences between Rovex and Triang Rovex Plunger Princesses so I am inspired to shed some light on the subject. There are 4 versions as far as I know, according to the ones I've come across. There was a rather fast evolution of the locomotive with on the fly production changes particularily with the plunger insulation materials. Fortunately these are interchangeable between models and the plunger machanism is left / right interchangeable between left and right holder sleeves. However despite copious coatings of flux the plunger brass solder points for the wire remain one of the most annoying things on the planet to attach a wire to regardless of soldering iron power. I had to press into service a 120 Watt instant heat solder gun to spot solder a wire onto the plunger attachment point eventually. Plunger Princess variantions: Rovex versions use a Zenith Z-3 motor and indented plunger pickup feet. Triang Rovex version (early 1952) uses the Triang X01 motor and flat plunger feet. The Triang Rovex version (late 1952) uses the Triang X01 motor and has rounded plunger feet. The Triang Rovex 1953 version has the Triang X02 motor. This is the only locomotive that used the X02 motor. The differences between the Zenith Z-3, X01 and X02 motors: The Zenith Z-3 has headless brushes on a clip in flat fibre board plate. It is held in place by a peg and the tension of the brushes on the disc commutator. Both brushes are riveted to the plate and have to be replaced as a whole unit. Armature in 2 to 3mm. shorter than the X01. Triang X01 has pad headed brushes on a clip in fibre board flat plate. It is held in place by a peg and the tension of the brushes on the disc commutator. Both brushes are riveted to the plate and have to be replaced as a whole unit. Zenith Z-3 and X01 brush plates are interchangeable. This means that a Zenith Z-3 could be found with Triang pad headed brushes and an X01 with Zenith headless plain brushes due to a replacement back in the early 1950's when such spare parts could be easily bought. These days one has to rebuild a set using Flash superglue gel and an solder gun (to fast set the glue) or fabricate a new brush pad from scratch or cannabalise a wreck. Just as, on extremely rare occasions some lawyers and politicians gain entry into heaven, it might be possible to find a spare set of Zenith or Triang disc commutator brush plates at swap meetings, in a dusty drawer at a very long established model railway shop or in a hoard of old spare railway parts on E-bay, etc. If one knows what a set looks like, you'll recognise a set at a glance. The Triang X02 motor has the drum commutator and takes X03 and X04 brushes. The armature, diaphram, brush spring wire, brushes and worm gear are interchangable with the X03 and X04 motors. Other interchangeable parts from later Princesses are: Front bogie from any non-front coupling Princess. Rear pony truck. This will need modifying by removing the drawbar and drilling out the original casting hole to return it to the Rovex pattern. This item used the original Rovex mould until the demise of the Princess in the 1970's. Cylinder block stayed the same through the years. Valve gear up until fluted connecting rods appeared. These will happily fit but be "wrong". Black body shell from later CA wheel pickup versions of the Princess will fit the plunger versions. Also later plastic bodies will also fit. Later Triang wheels will fit plunger axles so it is possible to solve the loss of screw thread in the centre drive wheels by using metal Princess wheels. The other method is to put a pin tip dab of Flash superglue gel into the plastic hole, screw / push in the valve gear screw, touch the screw with the tip of a hot soldering iron to set the glue and cut a new thread by unscrewing the screw. As superglue gel is far harder and resiliant than plastic. (I've glued heads onto broke bolts on classic motorcycles so that I could unscrew them) this will be a permanent last for years repair. Some of the screws will fit, such as the chimney screw and front underside nose screw (which is there to stop the front buffer beam warping but goes missing during the loco's lifetime).Due to CA shirinkage, it is advisable to file back the front frame horns before reinstating a screw into the nose underside hole otherwise there may be tears / bad language / a cracked body shell. There are probally a few other interchangeable parts that I've missed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 The cylinder blocks are common parts until the R.53 Green Princess Elizabeth with valve gear... After this there are two slots for the valve gear to locate in....So they will fit, but be "wrong"... From 1961, the clylinder block changed again, to fit under the chassis...these will not easily fit the Plunger models... The Zenith motors were also sold in a box... I have got one that has been got at a bit....with the box and instructions. (I havent read the sheet yet....only just added to our collection of parts! ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwich station Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 The cylinder blocks are common parts until the R.53 Green Princess Elizabeth with valve gear... After this there are two slots for the valve gear to locate in....So they will fit, but be "wrong"... From 1961, the clylinder block changed again, to fit under the chassis...these will not easily fit the Plunger models... Also Sir Dinadan cylinders are the same as the later Princess type. You just need to shorten the slide rods to Princess length. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 26, 2015 Author Share Posted December 26, 2015 The rapid evolution of Rovex/Triang Iocomotive mechanisms (and indeed the whole construction of the models) in the 1950s is a fascinating subject - this was a brand new technology and went from a standing start to the point at which a pretty much scale* model was being produced economically that was reliable for it's intended purpose and could be serviced and repaired easily. From a point in 1950/51 where Rovex was what the poor man bought who couldn't afford Dublo or Trix, to a point in 1959/60 where the latter makes were dying on their feet as the upstart was by now giving the average person something that looked as good for less money (and worked), it's the stuff that any revolution is made of. With the Princess, each 'model year' reminds me of the US auto industry in the 1950s - once you've handled them and become familiar with them, it's possible to pick up any Rovex/Triang Princess made during the entire production run and to be able to identify the year of manufacture, give or take a few months. * in relative terms, I'm not thinking of todays high end offerings.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Somewhere we've got a very dog-eared copy of "Triang Railways - the first 10 years", which lists all the changes made to the Princess over that period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 The rapid evolution of Rovex/Triang Iocomotive mechanisms (and indeed the whole construction of the models) in the 1950s is a fascinating subject - this was a brand new technology and went from a standing start to the point at which a pretty much scale* model was being produced economically that was reliable for it's intended purpose and could be serviced and repaired easily. From a point in 1950/51 where Rovex was what the poor man bought who couldn't afford Dublo or Trix, to a point in 1959/60 where the latter makes were dying on their feet as the upstart was by now giving the average person something that looked as good for less money (and worked), it's the stuff that any revolution is made of. With the Princess, each 'model year' reminds me of the US auto industry in the 1950s - once you've handled them and become familiar with them, it's possible to pick up any Rovex/Triang Princess made during the entire production run and to be able to identify the year of manufacture, give or take a few months. Then there are the models that look like they were "got one bit at a time....and it didn't cost me a dime"....made from various parts from various years! There are a few out there! "Tri-ang Railways The First Ten Years"....amongst the "Must Have" books this one! A mine of useful information! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted December 26, 2015 Author Share Posted December 26, 2015 Then there are the models that look like they were "got one bit at a time....and it didn't cost me a dime"....made from various parts from various years! There are a few out there! "Tri-ang Railways The First Ten Years"....amongst the "Must Have" books this one! A mine of useful information! Indeed - especially interesting when someone is selling one as in 'as-new' or perfect condition and you can see its been cobbled together from all sorts of different eras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted December 27, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 27, 2015 Indeed - especially interesting when someone is selling one as in 'as-new' or perfect condition and you can see its been cobbled together from all sorts of different eras. Yes but, its genuine Tri-ang! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted December 27, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 27, 2015 Yes but, its genuine Tri-ang! Don't forget r@re. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Yes but, its genuine Tri-ang! Its a Rovex, Tri-ang Railways, Tri-ang Hornby, Hornby Railways model..... OR Its a 1950, 51, 52, 53 , 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59 , 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, Model Locomotive. Somehow there is a song in my mind.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted December 27, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 27, 2015 Its a Rovex, Tri-ang Railways, Tri-ang Hornby, Hornby Railways model..... OR Its a 1950, 51, 52, 53 , 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59 , 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, Model Locomotive. Somehow there is a song in my mind.... Cash in on that song quickly then. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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