Dapol announce 8 new 'O' gauge wagons at Guildex

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Just received my Dapol vans today have to say I'm pleased with them. I also had the roof fitting problem on the plywood vans only

They come with 3 link couplings is this correct? I thought they should have screw links being fitted vans

I await the wisdom

XP stock, such as these vans, et al would normally be fitted Screw-links or Instanters. 

 

BTW - were the wheels correct disc type or - as the GOG Gazette photos - spoked?

 

I have noted of late - when I was endeavouring to follow some 'instructions' in a mainstream mag article recently (ie a step-by-step photo-feature) not only were there typo's (that happens even with the best will in the world - but if I hadn't of noticed then I would have ruined an item/wasted £ss) the article was overly edited and thus truncated (ie not detailing the full sequence or story and leaving out salient aspects of the 'build'). Why am I digressing and waffling? In - recentish - past times there were articles, in the mainstream mags., whereby if, eg., a 12T van was being built - or RTR version modified - then there would be a comprehensive article, with; prototype info and photos, photos of the model/kit, scale drawings and details such as to which type of, eg., brake gear and couplings were fitted. It is true to say that there are a lot of books available to detail such information these days, yet we are constantly being told that time (and money) is short in this day and age - IMHO mainly due to the madness of pandering to machinery and tech rather than making such work for us, and money like cork floating to the top etc etc, I digress - so as time is short and folk dont have time (or money for expensive books) to read chapter and verse from larger tomes or pour over hundreds of photos, articles, in the mainstream modelling press, detailing, eg. what type of couplings are fitted to 'bauxite', vacuum braked, XP, through braked stock etc (instead of the 'sound bite' articles were are being fed) are needed now more than ever. After all, we are all ignorant to something.

 

Note too how the reviewers never seem to get a model to review prior to general release. Without wishing to sound sycophantic - I believe that Andy York knows that I am not, whilst I endeavour to be fair, honest and open - Andy York et al write, on the whole, reasoned and observant reviews and yet, more often than not these days, the review is published, in most mags. long after the first batch of said model is sold out - via pre-order et al. I mention such, as the reviewer could tell the readership eg. what type of couplings would be fitted and how accurate and well made - or not - the model is, so potential buyers are left with and informed POV on the product/model. If I were cynical or a conspiracy theorist, as an ex student of business I COULD say that mags. being supplied with product samples late (plus the lead-time for publishing etc) suits slipshod/poor quality output/manufacture. Of course pre-orders and batch production is understandable for profit and economies of scale and such methodologies might mean that models/product can only be supplied for review 'late' and after all retailers wont want to sit on stock until such times as reviews come out - unless contracted to/under confidentiality agreements with the manufacturers - which wouldnt suit the manufacturers if eg. the first batch of 'Opens' and 'Vans' have bowed/warped sides and a reviewer pointed such out then the model might not sell. The modern/current 'MO' (internet purchases), is that with many models being mail-order the buyer may not be inclined to return such (if there is a problem with the model), although if not of a satisfactory quality or fit for purpose, to specs., and/or defective, return P&P is the liability of the retailer/manufacturers and thus FOC to the buyer (the buyer is also covered under direct selling regulations and the Consumer Credit Act et al too).

 

Just a few observations and each to their own - I make no value judgements on those who have purchased such.

 

To my mind, if these models are deformed above the sole-bars, then such is a great shame especially with a nice die-cast chassis.

 

I noted that one Poster mentioned that these models 'leave Parkside Dundas kits in the dust' (in précis and not verbatim), it is true to say that some kits have inaccuracies and anomalies, yet most are excellent having being designed by knowledgeable enthusiasts and/or subject matter experts alike and in doing so can be made, with or without extra detailing, into superb scale models. So in regard to kits, let us not throw the baby out with the bathwater and become all 'emperor's new clothes' about RTR, but judge each model/release on its own merits (or demerits). I believe that to say that these RTR vehicles leave PSD or Slater's et al in the dust is an over exaggeration - it is not my intention to cause conflict though. I for one have noted that MRJ dont often get to review, thus comment upon, these RTR models/releases - the GOG does, sometimes, long after the event (first batch sold out), due to publishing lead-times etc.

 

I hope to be proven wrong about the warping/buckling, and with that intent, I look forward to seeing some in the flesh soon.

 

ATVB

 

CME

Edited January 9, 2017 by CME and Bottlewasher

[Marshall5]

Slater's will supply their lost wax instanter links separately - I got some from them last year (around 7.50 for 3 pairs IIRC) to replace the plastic instanters on some Parkside vac fitted wagons.  The bar between the axlebox keeps is a "tie bar".  Apart from being fitted to vac braked wagons from new it was retrofitted to many, previously unfitted wagons, when B.R. converted them to vac brakes from the mid 50's on.  It was only on 4- shoe braked wagons and wasn't needed on 'clasp type' (aka 8 shoe) brakegear. At least that's my understanding of it.

Pity about the bowed sides - I thought manufacturers had got past this. Remember the horrible early Triang 'shorty' coaches that warped like a banana?  With the vans I suppose you could slide a tight fitting piece of thick Plastikard inside to force the sides straight but, short of having a permanent 'load' the opens aren't so easy. I was thinking of ordering some but now I'm having second thoughts.

Ray.

[vaughan45]

The eight wagons I have received all have 3 hole disc wheels, not split spokes as on the pre-production examples.

 

The van sides are not bowed once the roof is in place as the roofs have a moulding that runs the length of their underside to hold the sides in the correct position, so there is no need for any additional re-enforcement. There is small amount of bowing to towards the centre of the open wagons sides which is unfortunate; although the installation of a load would correct this. I suspect this is a problem with the moulding process, rather than quality control after production as all three (natural, grey & bauxite) bow in the same way and are quite rigid along the sides length, The bowing is not as pronounced as I have found on some of the Lionheart open wagons - both 16T & 7 Plank types.

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by vaughan45

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Slater's will supply their lost wax instanter links separately - I got some from them last year (around 7.50 for 3 pairs IIRC) to replace the plastic instanters on some Parkside vac fitted wagons.  The bar between the axlebox keeps is a "tie bar".  Apart from being fitted to vac braked wagons from new it was retrofitted to many, previously unfitted wagons, when B.R. converted them to vac brakes from the mid 50's on.  It was only on 4- shoe braked wagons and wasn't needed on 'clasp type' (aka 8 shoe) brakegear. At least that's my understanding of it.

Pity about the bowed sides - I thought manufacturers had got past this. Remember the horrible early Triang 'shorty' coaches that warped like a banana?  With the vans I suppose you could slide a tight fitting piece of thick Plastikard inside to force the sides straight but, short of having a permanent 'load' the opens aren't so easy. I was thinking of ordering some but now I'm having second thoughts.

Ray.

Hi Ray,

 

Yes Slaters do some nice LWB versions of Instanters and IIRC Peco do blackened metal/plastic versions.

 

I meant to say that the bar is called a 'tie-bar' as you say it is for stability/strength between the 'W' Irons and brakes eg. on Morton et al (ie four brake-shoe) fitted vehicles either as designed or retrofitted (in preservation I have seen some having been removed again).

 

Agreed - if these opens are 'bowed' - such is an old school issue, easier to rectify in a box/van than an Open.

 

ATVB

 

CME

[70E]

CME&BW

 

Thanks for the advice I'll give it a go.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

The eight wagons I have received all have 3 hole disc wheels, not split spokes as on the pre-production examples.

 

The van sides are not bowed once the roof is in place as the roofs have a moulding that runs the length of their underside to hold the sides in the correct position, so there is no need for any additional re-enforcement. There is small amount of bowing to towards the centre of the open wagons sides which is unfortunate; although the installation of a load would correct this. I suspect this is a problem with the moulding process, rather than quality control after production as all three (natural, grey & bauxite) bow in the same way and are quite rigid along the sides length, The bowing is not as pronounced as I have found on some of the Lionheart open wagons - both 16T & 7 Plank types.

Vaughan,

 

That is useful info and good to hear (thanks for the photos) - sometimes curves and the like, when photographed become exaggerated - thanks. 

 

The vans look like very good layout models.

 

My 16T LHs seem okay, its the latter planked versions....wonder if they were a later batch, ie some were manufactured okay and some not??

 

With thanks.

 

ATVB

 

CME

Edited January 9, 2017 by CME and Bottlewasher

[vaughan45]

Vaughan,

 

That is useful info and good to hear - sometimes curves and the like, when photographed become exaggerated - thanks. 

 

My 16T LHs seem okay, its the latter planked versions....wonder if they were a later batch, ie some were manufactured okay and some not??

 

With thanks.

 

ATVB

 

CME

 

I would agree as my later Lionheart wagons have been more affected than those purchased from earlier production runs,

 

Cheers, Vaughan

[CME and Bottlewasher]

I would agree as my later Lionheart wagons have been more affected than those purchased from earlier production runs,

 

Cheers, Vaughan

Ahh, yes Vaughan, that makes sense to me too (the early batches I viewed looked fine IIRC) - it could be due to tooling wear or the operative etc etc?? A shame, yet I shall probably run mine loaded anyway so I can fix them to a certain extent.

 

ATVB

 

CME

[Southernman46]

The bowing on the opens is pure physics - that type of material in that x-section & configuration etc etc

 

A bit of time with a hot hairdryer and some gentle re-moulding will probably cure it - that will be my proven solution

[CME and Bottlewasher]

The bowing on the opens is pure physics - that type of material in that x-section & configuration etc etc

 

A bit of time with a hot hairdryer and some gentle re-moulding will probably cure it - that will be my proven solution

When building an 'Open' from a kit I tend to allow for such and take the pressure off of the sides by allowing some wiggle room when afixing the ends etc - its almost inperceivable in terms of gaps when finally solvent welded together. In addition having four separate sides and preping them allows one to build reasonably four square and true.

 

Perhaps you could give a demo of your straightening technique and of its outcome, that would be most useful as i have not seen such successfully done on a RTR wagon. 

 

ATVB

 

CME

Edited January 9, 2017 by CME and Bottlewasher

[class27]

The sides of my plywood vans were very slightly bowed inwards,but the roof has a location lip all the way round which corrects the shape when clicked into place. The wheels are the correct type

So it is definitely screw link couplings or Instanters reqd for mid 70's time period

cheers

[CME and Bottlewasher]

The sides of my plywood vans were very slightly bowed inwards,but the roof has a location lip all the way round which corrects the shape when clicked into place. The wheels are the correct type

So it is definitely screw link couplings or Instanters reqd for mid 70's time period

cheers

Sounds good to me - yep have look at Slaters et al for instanters and screwlinks, CPL too.

[maq1988]

Received three today, a 5-plank open diagram 39 in grey, one of the insulated vans and one of the planked side vans. Roof of the vans is easy enough to get on and as others have said sorts the bowed sides out.

 

Sadly the open wasn't in a great way when it arrived, both wheel sets loose and all brake rigging in pieces. It's off for a return.

 

I cannot comment on the prototypes they are based on but the models have a decent weight to them, roll quite freely. The three link chain looks straightforward to replace. Wheels have a darkened look to them out of the box.

 

Mouldings look clean, as well as the printed on lettering.

 

The bar that runs between the wheel hangers is very thin and I could see that being damaged easily. I might look to see if I can put anything behind it to reenforce it a bit.

[coachmann]

My early idea when going 0 gauge was that I would build each wagon that was required for my layout. That has taking a knocking after seeing these mass-produced wagons. The Hibar is particularly attractive.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

My early idea when going 0 gauge was that I would build each wagon that was required for my layout. That has taking a knocking after seeing these mass-produced wagons. The Hibar is particularly attractive.

I know that feeling coachmann....

 

The HiBar concerns me the most, I agree that it has the potential to be a superb model, yet there appears to be a few too many bendy (fragile?) bits, please indulge me;-

 

I enjoy building wagons - but the layout is taking an age and it needs to be done in one lifetime - so its nice to have some RTR and also then fill in gaps with kit builds too. There is the price vs time vs quality/standards equation too. Pendon standards are admirable (sometimes inspiring and sometimes scary), yet for a one-man-band, with intermittent helpers, one has to focus on models suitable as layout models as opposed to museum pieces. If the issue with the sides can be addressed on the opens then along with the vans I shall have a few.

 

The vans look very attractive (judging by Vaughan's photos), the buffer-beams look a little devoid of bolt-head detail - so are some kits though - this detail, can, of course, either be added with fuse-wire or plastic-rod, yet in a train such isnt noticeable unless the wagon/van is the last in a fully fitted train and even then when in use such wouldn't be all that noticeable when running on a layout. The steel strapping looks nicely scaled though and the pressed-steel ends look good too (BTW to my eyes - and understanding - such is pressed-steel and not 'wiggly tin' as some have mentioned - on the prototype, I am happy to be corrected on that front though). Having positionable brake levers is quite cool and will please those who enjoy the photographic aspect of the hobby - nice work RW/Dapol.

 

We are all, currently, looking at these models in fairly cruel close up and isolation from their natural environs too - which is a good thing, so as to judge them as models in their own right (in 7mm such things/details are more noticeable of course, then eg. in 2mm/N) - yet when they are in a train on a layout, that's the next test, do they work well, run well, have longevity and robustness, will they sit well within the environs that they were manufactured/intended for - I am hoping so.

 

When looking at a real train of goods vehicles nothing stands out (and most of us are interested in the engine more than anything else if we are honest), even the occasional newly out-shopped and thus clean vehicle looks 'right', as they all look 'right' thus nothing jars/distracts. Of course one has to choose one's modelling battles, ie sound, water/waves, smoke, ripples in sheet metal et al. all have to be handled carefully as very often such can just look/sound like poor model-making. It is true to say that all models have a level of cognitive estrangement/willing suspension of disbelief (unless viewing a photographed model - in eg. MRJ - in B&W and built to Pendonesque standards), yet if something jars or stands out, then the effect of the whole (ie a train) can be ruined in an instant - for me 'tis the same with bowed wooden (plastic) wagon sides. Each to their own of course.

 

http://southpelawjunction.co.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/post-19218-0-00576800-1399821718.jpg

 

Weathering and added/reduced colour makes a huge difference too - if one doesn't want a model goods vehicle scrutinised as a close up one off, dont leave it in straight from the box livery with bright shining paint on show or have it in clean red, white or yellow (all of the 'danger' colours - our subconscious is immediately drawn to such).

 

http://glostransporthistory.visit-gloucestershire.co.uk/images/RR_NWM_Fruit%20B755715.jpg

 

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/00-0-a-rs-greenwood-49508.jpg

 

I am looking forward to seeing if Southerman46's hair-dryer fix works or not (on the opens).

 

ATVB

 

CME

Edited January 11, 2017 by CME and Bottlewasher

[delticfan]

Brilliant report and so down to earth. I like the equation bit with the added qualification it must be done in a lifetime, just wish I knew what that was personally it might influence my purchases!

[Southernman46]

I am looking forward to seeing if Southerman46's hair-dryer fix works or not (on the opens).

 

ATVB

 

CME

I need to get me wagon first ............

[Hal Nail]

When building an 'Open' from a kit I tend to allow for such and take the pressure off of the sides by allowing some wiggle room when afixing the ends etc .

 

 

I'd never given this any thought before but obviously if I now ignore this, Sod's law dictates every kit I ever build will bow horrendously. Do you fix the ends to the floor or just the sides and let the ends "float" fixed to the sides? 

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Brilliant report and so down to earth. I like the equation bit with the added qualification it must be done in a lifetime, just wish I knew what that was personally it might influence my purchases!

Thanks, heres to good health and a long, fruitful life to all here I learned that with 7mm I had to reasses my model making philosophies....

 

I'd never given this any thought before but obviously if I now ignore this, Sod's law dictates every kit I ever build will bow horrendously. Do you fix the ends to the floor or just the sides and let the ends "float" fixed to the sides?

 

Thanks again. You make a good point and its a great question.

 

Assuming the build of a Slaters or PSD kit (JLTRT kits are a different kettle of fish and dont require such work as the chassis and body are pre-moulded resin). If one builds around a floor and the floor is the wrong size or not four square and true=minor disaster (dont ask me how I know these things).....

 

.....I much prefer to fettle the ends of the sides, clean 'em up, get rid of moulding pips, flash etc, make sure that they are mitred square (check that there is a good 45degree on each piece of work) and then make two 'L' shapes/sub assemblies (ie 1 x End affixed to 1 x Side), which can also help with batch production. Then after either clamping/blue-tacking and re-checking with a set square I leave those sub-assemblies to dry, then when dry, dry test fit around floor and then, if required, true up the floor to fit as appropriate. This helps avoid the bowing side syndrome too ie by not force fitting to the floor (which is very tempting as the floors often look square-when often theyre not).

 

Before final assembly of van I add some foam or cotton wool so as to stop any drumming type noises etc.

 

I expect my ways are bodges but they seem to work okay for me.

 

Hope that helps-enjoy.

 

ATVB

 

CME

Edited January 12, 2017 by CME and Bottlewasher

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Btw everyone.....if I am viewing the fitted vehicles correctly, they will need, if one wants to be accurate, lamp-irons fitted in the appropriate places. Hope that helps.

[Hal Nail]

Thanks CME. Funny having said I've never thought about it, reading that I do much the same! Certainly spend time filing the corners to a sharper edge, albeit more to achieve a neat join. I tend to fix one side and end to the floor first and then fettle the other two and floor to get a good fit. But same principle really without consciously realising why!

 

Gone off topic, sorry! The ex Lionheart 8 planks that I bought on special from Dapol last week are all straight - no bowing at all..

Edited January 12, 2017 by Hal Nail

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Thanks CME. Funny having said I've never thought about it, reading that I do much the same! Certainly spend time filing the corners to a sharper edge, albeit more to achieve a neat join. I tend to fix one side and end to the floor first and then fettle the other two and floor to get a good fit. But same principle really without consciously realising why!

Gone off topic, sorry! The ex Lionheart 8 planks that I bought on special from Dapol last week are all straight - no bowing at all..

Only too pleased to be of help.

 

The anomaly in those LH wagons is weird as its not constant across all models-its in about half of mine.

 

The plating on the end and sides of wagon kits its greatly helped-to look continuous/as one piece-with getting the inside faces of the corners correct/fettled. Your methods are not too dissimilar to mine then LOL!

 

I picked up some old part built & damaged opens which I have worked my way through fettling and repairing them over a couple of years. Those that have been built around the floor have gaps between sides/ends or floor and thus the sides are slightly bowed. I have endeavoured to rectify them and minimise such-without taking them all the way apart (although the Brake Van I have was glued with cyano by its previous owner and with one touch fell apart Ha Ha! So putting back together better is easier). Always something to be learned from others' work, both good and bad.

 

Back on topic now.

 

ATVB

 

CME

[brianthesnail96]

Note that in the photos I put up a couple of posts back, the bar does have a definite downwards bend (probably not unrealistic!)- in the picture looking down onto the wagon this is the most obvious "horizontal" to compare the sides to, the major flaw being that it's not in fact horizontal. This makes the sides look much more bowed than they are- which is very slight on my example but it's a long way from being upsetting to me (and no worse than a couple of my kit built ones, which is of course a reflection on the quality of my building and not the kits themselves...).

 

Not sure that you can complain that the detail appears too fragile- it's there, if it wasn't people would complain it's missing, if it was overscale to reduce the fragility then obviously that would be a crime too... I'd rather have it, knock it off and have to get the superglue out or make a more durable/ scale compromise repair as appropriate than not have it in the first place.

Edited January 13, 2017 by brianthesnail96

[class27]

Just a couple of pics of my Dapol vans after an initial whiff over of some dirt which has brought up the detail really well

need to get some pics to work from to finish these off and figure out how to turn up the resolution on the camera

Edited January 13, 2017 by class27

[Pandora]

The wagons have compensated axles and  underframes,  on one side of the wagon the axle bearings are fitted into a rocking beam, interconnecting the axles.

 

This avoids the "four-legged" stool on an uneven floor effect which causes so much poor running on non-compensated wagons