Andy Y Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 ...all I'm looking for is an understanding of how Dave is intending to avoid a re-run of what we've just experienced/are still enduring and the only thing that I'm not hearing is how he might go about it. I can't believe that I'm the only one asking the question. Dave Dave, can I refer you to my earlier post please http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75838-dj-models-announce-new-models-in-n-oo-and-o/page-3&do=findComment&comment=1153756, Dave's already made comments on QC and components. Several people have reported earlier posts you've made so can you now let that rest please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbyandbf3fan Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Great start Dave, love the Clayton in N. I wish you every success in the venture, and as a serial entrepreneur I know how much hard work goes into getting a venture off the ground. I second the guy who is asking for NER 0-6-0s, they will sell like hot cakes. Two votes now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davec.hh Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Great News. I'm into 0 gauge and a J94 will be ok with me, but I'd sooner a J71 or 72 if its to be a tank loco or a J21 with a tender to pull. I think it might be a long time before I see any of them RTR, so it will have to be kit building. I wish Dave all the best with his new venture Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted September 8, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2013 1. Money has been put where his mouth has commented, that gains my curiosity and expectation. 2. I assume Dave moved from Dapol as he believes he can do better otherwise point 1 would be crazy. As Andy says take the opportunity to see what develops and take part in the development as invited. Seems a no risk situation for the rest of us Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted September 8, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2013 That's my take on it too Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Robert Shrives Posted September 8, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2013 Hi all, Well thats a twin pack 17 and a blue one for Mercig then ! Blue 23 as well - renumber into the new build 5910 in order. Thanks Dave! Jokingly should it not be dummy twin pack with several crew with caps off scratching heads - plus opening/ blown off bonnets! - see pics with doors pegged back to aid cooling! Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Several people have reported earlier posts you've made so can you now let that rest please? Without wishing to re-ignite a disagreeably subject I would like to reply, especially as someone left considerably out of pocket by Dapol's botched attempt at O gauge open wagon commissions. ...all I'm looking for is an understanding of how Dave is intending to avoid a re-run of what we've just experienced/are still enduring and the only thing that I'm not hearing is how he might go about it. I can't believe that I'm the only one asking the question. Dave Dave (Torr), you arn't the only one asking the question. However, lets not forget that Dapol's mistakes were Dapol's, not necessarily Dave Jones', he was often just the one stuck with his head over the parrapet when the bovine by-product hit the air moving device. However Dave (Jones), the O gauge wagons were a bit of a disaster from detail/accuracy point of view. Whilst it isn't your place to comment on that particular mistake now, it would have been better at the time if Dapol had put their hands up rather than treating us all to stoney silence. Maybe a lesson for the future? In the meantime, why don't we help Dave (Jones) get the CADs right on what looks like quite an exciting range, so as few mistakes as possible creep into the process, and give the bloke a chance ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartM Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 ...all I'm looking for is an understanding of how Dave is intending to avoid a re-run of what we've just experienced/are still enduring and the only thing that I'm not hearing is how he might go about it. I can't believe that I'm the only one asking the question. Dave I can empathise with Torr as my experience of Dapol products has not been great, and because Dave Jones was the public face of Dapol, it's easy to wonder if the products will be of the same standard, so it's understandable perhaps why Dave might cop some flack re quality, however perhaps the reason why Dave left Dapol, was in order to be able to do something better. In all fairness perhaps Dave can't go into to much detail for reasons of commercial confidentiality, which would probably result in a lawsuit from his previous employers (who must be slightly miffed) I think as long as Dave keeps to his promise to personally check each and every loco before dispatch, then there really shouldn't be any problems. Personally I'd rather have a model that was reliable, than one with bells and whistles. And as someone else has posted, perhaps battery powered radio control is something that could be considered for the future http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64616-battery-poweredradio-controlled-locos/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 8, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2013 If Dave Jones is prepared to invest his own time and money in producing something with all the points he has made about quality checks, availability of spares and so on that indicates to me that he is looking at things very much in the light of dealing with criticisms made in the past - of several r-t-r 'manufacturers, not just Dapol. It also appears to me that with the right attention to detail and with the right backing and investment he can claim to have delivered some top notch models to market, just look at the Kernow Well Tank. People can make of that latter comment what ever they want but in the end it's really down to he who pays the piper (i.e. in many businesses that means the accountants, not the development engineer) and marketing works in its own sweet way which can be somewhat disconnected from development, and sales. In DJModels we have a basically known quantity putting his money where his mouth is and effectively saying that he will stand the cost of any production shortcomings by making sure everything is tested and works properly before it heads in our direction - that is a massive step forwards in British r-t-r and something we haven't really seen since the days of Hornby Dublo and those little 'Tested By' labels. Now he has to prove that he can and will do what he is setting out to do and all we have to do is wait for the results. And let's try to forget that DJModels is neither Dapol, nor Hornby, nor Bachmann, nor Heljan but a new kid on the block with a different approach to life which recreates some of the things we used to take for granted. Give the bloke a chance (so he can make some money to support branching into GWR types in the future). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Firstly, I'd like to congratulate Dave on putting his money where his mouth is and starting up his own company, after the great work he has done interacting with the modelling public and providing us with some excellent models through his role at Dapol it is great to see his continued involvement in the railway modelling industry! Unfortunately for me, the first wave of models are not suitable to my 00 or N gauge interests but, the reaction on here seems to be pretty positive so it seems like DJM is off to a good start. I am sure down the line there'll be something that catches my attention. Re. quality control... I have one general observation and one query. My general observation is that by checking each item, QC will pick up howlers from the production process, e.g. missing parts, transit damage etc, and ensure a consistent quality of product. However, it will not provide an absolute guarantee of reliabilty, what will have a greater effect is in the design and build stages (DJM's statement about utilising tailor made PCB's reassures me that the reliability element of the design is being tackled!). QC is not infallible, I worked in QC in a computer factory, a new model was introduced, we sent out hundreds of these computers because they passed all the QC tests ... The design used innappropriate components, the computers dropped like flies and were back at the factory for full rebuilds in under a week! My question is... Are you really going to do all the QC by yourself? I count 6 product lines, with 32 variations, coming out... That's a lot of QC for one man, if so good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account 2 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Congratulations Dave and all the very best for your upcoming venture. Certainly some good news. Love the selection of models also. But why a 4mm J94 - Isn't one already available from Hornby? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Congratulations Dave and all the very best for your upcoming venture. Certainly some good news. Love the selection of models also. But why a 4mm J94 - Isn't one already available from Hornby? See post 74. Dave, it's great to see someone having the balls to start a new company with the total belief they can do things better. I'm a little surprised about 'the guilty by association' comments as all the risks are with you. I wish you every success for the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiesta Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Well good luck with your new venture - hate the negative comments and the "downers" before you've hardly started and got it up and running - oh for once for people to be positive instead of negative - I wish you well! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 HI All I'm sure Dave has thought long and hard about where to burn his capital, when its your money you are playing with it tends to concentrate the mind somewhat. All the best Dave Regards Arran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenBR Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Dave the man has a plan and 100k to do it with. Perhaps the doubters should put up or shut up. There is no risk to the punter at all you just have to wait and if its any good buy it if not it costs you nothing. Its a deal that has 100% advantage to the buyer. I for one would not want to explain and put in writing my super dooper plan for every other manufacturer to view. Give the guy a chance Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 So much heat and very little light. Cards on the table, 4mm models don't interest me but I will buy a 7mm class 23 like a shot at that price providing it looks the part and runs well. It would look very good trundling a short trip freight into the Dock Green yard. However I'm quite prepared to wait and see and whether I part with money depends on the quality of the model. I wish Dave luck with the venture and will watch developments with interest, I would like a Baby Deltic! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raycorton Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 If Dave ensures that he starts with good Quality Assurance (QA) then a lot of the QC problems will disappear, so let him get on with the job. Dave could we have some answers to my previous questions regarding the n gauge Clayton. Ray (black wheels) Corton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Hi Its fantastic looking at this post today with so many wishing Dave well. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 If Dave ensures that he starts with good Quality Assurance (QA) then a lot of the QC problems will disappear, so let him get on with the job. Dave could we have some answers to my previous questions regarding the n gauge Clayton. Ray (black wheels) Corton Hi Ray, Sorry but I thought i'd answered this on the other current thread. to clarify though............. The Clayton will be powered by a coreless motor with flywheels, have directional lighting, be DCC ready with the DCC board and blanking plug below the bottom of the cab window line, will have a close coupling mechanism, darkened profile wheels, low friction mechanism, NEM coupling pockets, but wont come with a smoke unit and realistic oil purges from the engines :jester:cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom J Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I have been left very frustrated by Dapol products from time to time, and overall my personal perception of the firm is that they are a definite second to Farish (who have their own issues with QC, to be fair!) in terms of quality of steam locomotives in particular. Dave, you have seen and heard more than most, the issues punters have had, be they of a product or perception nature! £100k is a brave investment and I feel sure you have thought long and hard about how to carve out some competitive advantage. Good luck, and if the stuff works, I might well buy some! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Firstly, I'd like to congratulate Dave on putting his money where his mouth is and starting up his own company, after the great work he has done interacting with the modelling public and providing us with some excellent models through his role at Dapol it is great to see his continued involvement in the railway modelling industry! Unfortunately for me, the first wave of models are not suitable to my 00 or N gauge interests but, the reaction on here seems to be pretty positive so it seems like DJM is off to a good start. I am sure down the line there'll be something that catches my attention. Re. quality control... I have one general observation and one query. My general observation is that by checking each item, QC will pick up howlers from the production process, e.g. missing parts, transit damage etc, and ensure a consistent quality of product. However, it will not provide an absolute guarantee of reliabilty, what will have a greater effect is in the design and build stages (DJM's statement about utilising tailor made PCB's reassures me that the reliability element of the design is being tackled!). QC is not infallible, I worked in QC in a computer factory, a new model was introduced, we sent out hundreds of these computers because they passed all the QC tests ... The design used innappropriate components, the computers dropped like flies and were back at the factory for full rebuilds in under a week! My question is... Are you really going to do all the QC by yourself? I count 6 product lines, with 32 variations, coming out... That's a lot of QC for one man, if so good luck! Hi m0rris, thanks for the comments. Yes I will be checking every single model made myself when they arrive in the UK. Its not as difficult as you think. For example, there is no way I will be releasing all 6 models at once, as I imply do not have the capital to do so, and as such, say I supply 600 class 17's next month (for example not in reality as it a while yet), then 600 should only take me in the region of 2-3 days. As i'm going to be testing these at my shippers, as they get 'passed' they get shipped so the hold up is minimum and will be built into the timeline for each model. Yes things could get difficult if I grow too big, but in all honesty i'm not looking to usurp the manufacturers out there in terms of size, merely setting my own standards which I will move everything to achieve! cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Hi Dave, Good luck and I'm looking forward to buying a J94 off you when they come out. If it's the same standard as the well tank and Western etc. it'll be well worth waiting for. cheers, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Whilst your model list has nothing for me in it, I do hope you succeed in this venture. By my count, that is now 3 manufacturers that have put their own money in to make models for the uk market, you, realtrack and ftg (when it appears) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Good luck with the venture Dave. This kind of attention to detail AND build standards is needed in UK RTR. As I've said its all well and good designing top spec models, but if they cannot be delivered as designed, it is a waste. Great news both for the products you will be producing, and the message it will (hopefully) send to the industry. I would be in the market fro a J94, but none of your initial offerings are based on preserved prototypes. Any chance one of the two preserved ex-LNER examples can be slotted in there? Or a colourful preserved industrial for a future run? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreamnos Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Just returned from holiday in Scotland and I am very, very pleased to read this news on my return today to California. Very impressed by DJM's statement re: spares, QC, and production and shipping dates. I've been reading this board long enough to know that DJ is very well familiar with what actions (or non-) by the "major manufacturers" annoy modellers and am impressed how DJM's announcement so clearly addresses how it will set a higher standard. Announced prices are very reasonable and competitive. The diesel prototypes (particularly the Clayton) selected for manufacture are well chosen as is the J94 in N (I can't comment on other gauges as I don't model them). I am hopeful that DJM will produced down the road other odd-ball and one-off (or 2- or 3-off) diesel prototypes in N, (e.g., Falcon, LMS 10000 and 10001 and Bulleid 10201 02 03) but I fully appreciate that such niche models alone will never sustain any firm as a going concern. I am prepared to wait excitedly to see what else the firm produces over the years. This is wonderful news! Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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