St. Simons Network Rail Signalling Design Training (Starts Page 9 Post #221)

[The Stationmaster]

Simon

 

Just wondering - if you want to have something to put on your "signalling CV" for any future applications, have you thought of giving these guys a hand?

 

http://www.swindonpanel.org.uk/

 

Richard

Only problem is that if the Swindon panel bunch are doing it properly they will have to use either WR E10,000 circuits or link into those sort of circuits off their Simsig.  And E10,000 circuits, notwithstanding some mods, recentish re-drawing, and the ability to driven off solid state modern stuff, are basically late 1950s/early '60s designs so als perhaps not absolutely suited for modern experience (but very handy if you're in Plymouth or, at present, Bristol etc).

I have tried to get onto a course in Track Design, a more office based scheme, but with some hands on stuff, which I would be much more suited to, but they can't transfer me across due to dates and paperwork basically. I have really tried to stay within NR, but unfortunately, all of my efforts haven't borne fruit.

 

Simon

That is very much what I would have suggested/had in mind for you Simon and it is rather unfortunate if they can't do that sort of change.  Beats me why they all seem frightened of 'paperwork' nowadays - it's hardly a safety related issue, so one could use a file marked WPB for any unhelpful paperwork which got in the way of commonsense etc.

[Trevellan]

Hi Simon

 

I'm sorry to learn that things have not gone as well as you hoped. The best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

I do hope this was nothing to do with the leg-pulling going on at Taunton about you being a "track monkey"

[St. Simon]

Hi Simon

 

I'm sorry to learn that things have not gone as well as you hoped. The best of luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

I do hope this was nothing to do with the leg-pulling going on at Taunton about you being a "track monkey"

 

Hi,

 

Don't worry Trevor, it wasn't anything to do with that, I've had far worse Leg-pulling than that over the past 9 months, like water off a ducks back!

 

Simon

[RJS1977]

Only problem is that if the Swindon panel bunch are doing it properly they will have to use either WR E10,000 circuits or link into those sort of circuits off their Simsig.  And E10,000 circuits, notwithstanding some mods, recentish re-drawing, and the ability to driven off solid state modern stuff, are basically late 1950s/early '60s designs so als perhaps not absolutely suited for modern experience (but very handy if you're in Plymouth or, at present, Bristol etc).

 

 

True, but I would have thought anything which showed an interest in signalling systems and an understanding of signalling practices, would be something useful to put on a CV.

 

Also I know that at least two prominent members of the SPG are involved in the setting up of TVSC in their day jobs (hence organising the recent tours) and might be useful contacts.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Once you're out, you might find it hard to get back in. The best of luck for whatever path you choose to take, but don't get too disheartened at this stage.

Not Simon's industry, but I have seen any number of people 'get on' by plugging away at doing what they are doing really well, while letting it be clearly known what their preferred development path is. Get known as both a reliable grafter, and wanting to develop your career, and openings typically appear. Being inside an organisation and working every contact you have got, should win through. (There is though one thing to look out for in any organisation: is there something you have to be part of to really get anywhere? Masons, sports clubs, political affiliation, morris dancing, you name it. If it's one of those then the choice is join or depart.)

 

Also apply for anything in the right line externally. It's a race between employers to secure your valuable talents; can be a wake up call for an employer getting an external call for a reference.

Edited June 3, 2014 by 34theletterbetweenB&D

[Baby Deltic]

Not Simon's industry, but I have seen any number of people 'get on' by plugging away at doing what they are doing really well, while letting it be clearly known what their preferred development path is. Get known as both a reliable grafter, and wanting to develop your career, and openings typically appear. Being inside an organisation and working every contact you have got, should win through. (There is though one thing to look out for in any organisation: is there something you have to be part of to really get anywhere? Masons, sports clubs, political affiliation, morris dancing, you name it. If it's one of those then the choice is join or depart.)

 

Also apply for anything in the right line externally. It's a race between employers to secure your valuable talents; can be a wake up call for an employer getting an external call for a reference.

 

I would err against the 'I'm leaving' blackmail technique though. If things have got to that stage, just leave and take the other job rather than hold your present employer to ransom. They may make promises just so you don't take the other job, then fail to deliver. You can only use that one once, and employers don't forget.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Quite right; up to the employer to deliver the desired opportunity before you decide to resign to take the external path. Promises count for nothing, it's what you have in your hand and nothing else. An indecisive business incapable of reacting quickly is a dead loss anyway.

 

This will obviously vary from one employer to another, business cultures cover a wide range. Most that I have enjoyed respected someone prepared to fight his or her corner, but I have heard of (dismal) alternatives that place a great value on flaccid servility...

[The Stationmaster]

I would err against the 'I'm leaving' blackmail technique though. If things have got to that stage, just leave and take the other job rather than hold your present employer to ransom. They may make promises just so you don't take the other job, then fail to deliver. You can only use that one once, and employers don't forget.

 

 

Quite right; up to the employer to deliver the desired opportunity before you decide to resign to take the external path. Promises count for nothing, it's what you have in your hand and nothing else. An indecisive business incapable of reacting quickly is a dead loss anyway.

 

This will obviously vary from one employer to another, business cultures cover a wide range. Most that I have enjoyed respected someone prepared to fight his or her corner, but I have heard of (dismal) alternatives that place a great value on flaccid servility...

To be fair to Simon we are making these sort of comments from outside the NR fence although I do think that in most organisations I've come across one probably stands a far better chance at anything internally than you might externally, let alone 'externally having previously left'.

 

I think the best advice we can offer to Simon beyond what he has already done is to seek an interview with NR's personnel folk (presumably called 'HR' nowadays?) to see if there is any advice they can offer him.  Seeking to widen a search beyond one's own current discipline can sometimes be helpful as those you are talking to within that discipline tend to be very much centred on it and might not even be aware of any wider possibilities or routes available towards those possibilities.  And let's face it - if you have invested your time in getting someone selected & trained or in training them you might not be too keen to see them go elsewhere in your firm's employ.

[St. Simon]

I would err against the 'I'm leaving' blackmail technique though. If things have got to that stage, just leave and take the other job rather than hold your present employer to ransom. They may make promises just so you don't take the other job, then fail to deliver. You can only use that one once, and employers don't forget.

 

Hi,

 

I haven't resorted to that technique in anyway at all, I'm just hoping they have realised actually what has happened and find something for me.

 

Quite right; up to the employer to deliver the desired opportunity before you decide to resign to take the external path. Promises count for nothing, it's what you have in your hand and nothing else. An indecisive business incapable of reacting quickly is a dead loss anyway.

 

This will obviously vary from one employer to another, business cultures cover a wide range. Most that I have enjoyed respected someone prepared to fight his or her corner, but I have heard of (dismal) alternatives that place a great value on flaccid servility...

 

I gave Network Rail quite a few possibilities and oppotunities to keep me on before I made the decision to resign, the decision I made was a last resort.

 

But, as I said in my post, this resignation will only come into force if I don't get an alternative offer from NR, and I still have a couple of days left.

 

Simon

[St. Simon]

Hi Guys,

 

Well, I’ve given you time to digest my decision on resigning from the scheme and (hopefully) my temporary departure from Network Rail and also the chance to give some very helpful and appreciative advice on what I should do next.

 

What I’d thought I’d do now is give a run down on how I think it has gone over the past nine months, first of all a run down over the academic side of things and the final grades for each of my BTEC Units and overall Grade:

• Unit 1: Health & Safety in the Engineering Workplace: DISTINCTION
• Unit 4: Mathematics for Engineering Techinicans: DISTINCTION
• Unit 5: Mechanical Principles and Applications: DISTINCTION
• Unit 10: Properties and Applications of Engineering Materials: DISTINCTION
• Unit 12: Applications of Mechanical Systems in Engineering: DISTINCTION
• Unit 56: Railway Infastructure Construction and Maintenance: DISTINCTION
• Unit 10B: Surveying: DISTINCTION

No. of Assignments undertaken: 95

No. of Referrals needed: 1

 

No. of Words: 75,846

No. of Pages: 215

 

Overall Grade: DISTINCTION *

 

The above word / page count does include the unofficial Signalling unit, but due to other things being on my mind, little time and computer differences, I haven’t been able to complete fully, but I do hope to complete with all the spare time I will have soon!

 

In case you are wandering what that all looks like:

 

 

The Green, Black and Dark Blue display books contain my BTEC & ILM Coursework; all three of them are full, with about 10 pages in separate wallets. The Light blue folder houses my NVQ Evidence. This means that I will finish this year with the following qualifications:

 

BTEC Level 3 Subsidiary Diploma in Engineering

NVQ2 in Performing Engineering Operations

Institute of Leadership and Management Level 2

 

I have found, as you might have guessed from previous posts, the academic work to be fairly easy and although the ILM stuff is not all that logical from time to time, I suppose I will find it useful at some point in the future.

 

But, I won’t have a use for Core Fitness Tests in the future. This is probably the only thing I won’t miss at all when I leave Fareham. I’ve only got marginally fitter through doing the tests, but I think the weekend 3 mile walks into Fareham and back have done me better!

 

But, there has been a lot of good things come out of the year:

• I’ve become more independent
• I’ve gained quite a bit of knowledge
• I’ve meant some really nice people (mainly instructors)
• I’ve had the great opportunity to live and work alongside the Royal Navy
• Seen lots of different places
• I’ve taken part in the 2014 Facebook Recruitment campaign for the Scheme
• I surveyed the Swanage Railways Mainline Link
• I renewed track along the Cob in Porthmadog for the Ffestiniog Railway
• I was one of the first to lay Plastic Sleepers in Bulk for a Passenger Railway in Europe (and even lead the team on the first day of works)
• I’ve become an affiliated member of the institute of Mechanical Engineers
• Gained three Qualifications
• Hand Crafted a Claw Clamp
• Trained in stripping down and assembling a HW1000 Points Motor
• Passed to work on track (following a PTS course)
• Got that little bit fitter
• Managed to see a whole new part of the railway system (and some new traction as well!)

I’ve found the last nine months worth while and looking back on it, I don’t regret doing the past nine months, yes sometimes it was a pain, but overall I think I’ve enjoyed them. Also, despite some of the reasons for my resignation, I would still recommend Network Rail’s Advanced Apprenticeship Scheme, all I would say is, make sure you’re know what you’re letting yourself in for in the second / third years!

 

I will also miss the area, Fareham is a lovely place as is the area around the accommodation, including base. In fact, I suppose you could say as a parting gift, last night we were treated to several fly pasts by the Battle of Britain Memorial Flights Lancaster, Spitfires, P-51 and C-47:

 

 

(Sorry for the grainy photo, it was off my phone's camera)

 

As for the future, well I can’t predict it, my current plan is to fill in the next year and apply for the 2015 Network Rail ‘Green light’ Trainee Signal Design Scheme and their ‘Star Track’ Trainee Track Design Scheme. Keep your eyes peeled for updates, probably in a separate thread.

 

Simon

Track Apprentice.

 

P.S. I will probably update this one last time on Friday Evening / Saturday Morning with any news from my Graduation.

Edited June 4, 2014 by St. Simon

[The Stationmaster]

Well done Simon.

[colin penfold]

When I consider the list of your grades and achievements I find it amazing that NR is willing to see you leave without making some genuine effort to help you to find a niche to suit your aspirations and talents. The idea that a young person who was put up as an exemplar of the scheme on Facebook is feeling the need to resign would make the scheme considerably less attractive to other young people if it became known. I don't advocate threats to resign but I would advocate having a conversation with the most senior HR person you can access. In your position (and with the benefit of nearly 40 years work experience) I would be looking to remind him or her of the level of investment they have made, the level of achievement you have reached, and the benefits to both parties of your continued employment with them. Your situation is very real to you, but please don't make the mistake of thinking anyone else is giving it any thought unless you have personally discussed it with them. Id hate for you to leave unnecessarily because you hadn't had a conversation with the right person.

[St. Simon]

When I consider the list of your grades and achievements I find it amazing that NR is willing to see you leave without making some genuine effort to help you to find a niche to suit your aspirations and talents. The idea that a young person who was put up as an exemplar of the scheme on Facebook is feeling the need to resign would make the scheme considerably less attractive to other young people if it became known. I don't advocate threats to resign but I would advocate having a conversation with the most senior HR person you can access. In your position (and with the benefit of nearly 40 years work experience) I would be looking to remind him or her of the level of investment they have made, the level of achievement you have reached, and the benefits to both parties of your continued employment with them. Your situation is very real to you, but please don't make the mistake of thinking anyone else is giving it any thought unless you have personally discussed it with them. Id hate for you to leave unnecessarily because you hadn't had a conversation with the right person.

Hi,

 

I have had discussions in depth with both my Human Resources Manager and my Line Manager about options as well as outlining my achievements and unfortunately I have still ended up in this situation. However, it still hasn't damped my spirits for working on the Railway and with Network Rail (albeit it in a higher role)

 

Simon

[Baby Deltic]

Simon, well done in all you've achieved so far, but in engineering terms, you've only scratched the surface thus far. I see you have chosen to resign from your apprenticeship. I can understand why you didn't want to continue on that path, but is the training you have done thus far relevant to what you want to do? You need to try and get back into the industry immediately, I think. As a former apprentice myself, I can say that continuity and continuation of training are absolutely vital. Its amazing how quickly you can forget skills you've only just learnt when you are not using them constantly. You may end up starting all over again if a future employer deems your skills not relevant to the career for which you have applied. I don't want to sound disheartening but back in my day leaving an apprenticeship by your own volition was pretty much unheard of, that's all.

[St. Simon]

Simon, well done in all you've achieved so far, but in engineering terms, you've only scratched the surface thus far. I see you have chosen to resign from your apprenticeship. I can understand why you didn't want to continue on that path, but is the training you have done thus far relevant to what you want to do? You need to try and get back into the industry immediately, I think. As a former apprentice myself, I can say that continuity and continuation of training are absolutely vital. Its amazing how quickly you can forget skills you've only just learnt when you are not using them constantly. You may end up starting all over again if a future employer deems your skills not relevant to the career for which you have applied. I don't want to sound disheartening but back in my day leaving an apprenticeship by your own volition was pretty much unheard of, that's all.

Hi,

 

Yes, that is my plan, I'll by applying for other Network Rail Schemes in due course, but these open for applications later in the year, or next year.

 

Simon

[big jim]

Hi Jim,

 

I would have to wait several years before being able to qualify as a lookout or COSS

 

seriously!

 

some of the lookouts i've seen i wouldn't trust looking out for a pie on a window ledge (i once saw one on his mobile as i passed by, the NR manager who was in the cab with me was less than impressed and the lookout was off the track within minutes following a call to the site boss!)

[TheSignalEngineer]

Hello Simon. I was sad to hear of your decision to leave but that's down to you.

 

In my day we spent 5 years to do the Signalling Engineering Student scheme before we were allowed to fly solo as it were, but it depended on how much you were trusted by the people you were training with. If you proved you could do it they let you get on with it. I dug holes, pulled cables, laid concrete, climbed poles, put up signals and all the other manual jobs for the first two years. Most of the time after that was spent on design and running an organisation. It was hard graft to start with but I ended my career doing jobs like Senior Project Engineer and Scheme Development Engineer then after privatisation Business Development and sometimes Bid Manager. I still get called on occasionally by my old staff for help with projects nearly 50 years after I started training.

 

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

 

Eric

Edited June 8, 2014 by TheSignalEngineer

[TheSignalEngineer]

Hi Guys,

 

Another week has passed and more updates for you!

 

Again, I have been doing bench fitting this week and continuing to produce components for our Claw Clamp, although only three of them are assessed. By the close of play today, I managed to get all three of the assessed pieces finished, on time, although actually the last two pieces took me 2 days in all to complete, as opposed to the 7 days we got for them (3.5 days each), however my pivot block took me 2 days longer than it should of done, but they've all cancelled each other to mean I'm bang on target to finish the clamp (I hope you followed that!), here's the three bits that are assessed:

 

 

 

Returning to one of your old posts, here are a few of the ones I made earlier, Crewe Works Training School 47 years earlier actually.

 

 

Still in use today

[96701]

Returning to one of your old posts, here are a few of the ones I made earlier, Crewe Works Training School 47 years earlier actually.

 

P6080347 (800x600).jpg

 

Still in use today

I have one of those on the right that I made in Horwich Training School in 1974.

[Lt_ELLZO]

Why not try a different company that isn't Network Rail, there's more to the railway than Network Rail.

 

If you want to get into signalling design, have a look into companies such as :-

 

Siemens Rail Automation (used to be Invensys Rail)

Balfour Beatty

Signalling solutions

Amey

Jacobs.

 

Thats what i can remember of the top of my head.

 

I myself have just finished a degree in Railway Engineering and hopefully going on to the Siemens Rail Automation graduate scheme.

 

If you have any questions I'll do my best to answer them.

 

Elliott

[TheSignalEngineer]

I have one of those on the right that I made in Horwich Training School in 1974.

There's probably some LMS standard drawings for them.

[St. Simon]

Hello Ladies and Gentleman,

 

Well, it has been a very long time since I updated you with the latest goings on, but I have been busy to things and finding a new Job, and I'm very pleased to say, I found on and was accepted.

 

I will, come 27th August, be a Trainee Signalling Design Engineer with Network Rail at their Reading Design Offices. I found this opportunity, part of Network Rail's 'Green light' Scheme a couple of weeks after leaving Portsmouth and I applied. I was successful in getting an Interview and then was Successful in Gaining a Place on the scheme.

 

The Job is a type of Higher Apprenticeship, and for the first 2 years I will be studying an HNC in Electrical Engineering at Swindon College, so higher level stuff than the Apprenticeship, and in between studying & for the following 2 years, I will be at NR's Reading Design Office learning everything there is about Signalling Design. At the moment, it's looking increasing likely that I will have to move to Reading to make it easier on me, as I have to commute between Reading and Swindon everyday.

 

I'm really looking forward to starting, it's something I will definitely enjoy, and much better suited to me than the Track Apprenticeship was. I don't know whether I'll post updates on my progress as I did with the Apprenticeship, we'll have to wait and see.

 

I'm sorry it's taken so long to update, but things have happened rather fast down here in Buckinghamshire!

 

Simon

[Graham_Muz]

Excellent news Simon well done. I am both pleased for you and proud of you.

[Kris]

Fantastic news, well done. 

[Tase]

Nice one fella!