two tone green Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Today the replacement pack has arrived and I have had a quick ten minutes to play to see what they run like. First impression is they do run a lot quieter and don't sound like they are full of broken cogs. They are a straight swap installation wise but the arrangement of the wiring hook up is slightly different but there is no need to change wires etc. I have bought the Omega version that has the little change over switch for the operating voltage and I have mine set on 9V as the output from the ESU Switch Pilot via a Lenz LA010 is about 9V, input to the Switch Pilot coming off my accessory ring main which is stabilised 12VDC. At the same time as buying the pack of motors I also bought the DCC Concepts equivalent to the Lenz LA010 so I will see how they do as well. I'll install the other five motors and do a longer test and see how they do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted February 15, 2015 Share Posted February 15, 2015 I have been using seven of the new Cobalt Omega point motors for around a month now on my 7mm layout. They are in an area that is 'high usage' so have had a reasonable amount of actuations to deal with in that time. They are controlled by ESU Switch Pilots using a three to two wire adapter, DCC Concept SDC3, with a pulse duration setting in the Switch Pilot of 26. If you use the full setting of 31 it pulls the switch blades very hard against the stock rail and really that kind of duration / travel is not needed. The feed voltage is 12VDC from a stabilised lab supply and the point motors set to run on the lower voltage, 9v to 12v, by using the little switch on the point motor connect board. I checked the output voltage after the three to two wire adapter and its 9.7 volts. The points run at a reasonable speed and meet my needs at that speed. As a result of using a pulse setting in the Switch Pilot and not the K84 setting it in effect removes the power at the end of the stroke of the motor and the high gearing prevents the motor from running backwards. I had been using the K84 setting with no problems but I thought I would see how the point motors performed on pulse and having no power on them at the end of the stroke. They should in theory last longer if they are not powered all the time. If there are any problems I go back to K84 mode. No wiring change just a flick of a switch on the Switch Pilot. So at the moment they are a success and possibly I will change the other eleven point motors on the layout for the newer versions. If things change, any thing nasty happen I'll let you all know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony566 Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I have started useing the new Cobalt iP Digital point motors and they are running very well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Just taken delivery of 12 omega versions to replace the existing older Cobalt point motors. The Omega ones already installed are doing a great job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I'll throw my findings in here as well. I'm another that has used Tortoise for a good many years and never had an issue. I did pick up half a dozen Cobalts when I first started building some club modules a few years back. Nothing but problems with them. They didn't last long and were replaced with Tortoise. I will say I haven't tried the new ones yet, but once bitten...... especially since I know what I'm getting with the Tortoise and they average around £3.50 per unit cheaper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Hi Andrew, Yes, I had similar bad experiences with the early Cobalt's as well but they were replaced no questions asked and the batch of 21 settled down to reasonable operation. But they are noisy and I had to individually tweak each one with a resister to avoid overrunning and the dreaded click that would occur. The resistor stopped this and they have operated on the layout for quite a number of years now. But I always wanted a simplified way of controlling them with my ESU SwitchPilots and rather than use the SwitchPilot Extension to operate them I wanted to use the three to two wire convertors that Lenz made and now DCC Concept as well as this was a way of reducing the stress on the motors by shutting them off at the end of the drive. The new versions out now, Omega versions upwards have a much lower current draw and I have found them to be a lot quieter as well. I have been able to do away with the SwitchPilot Extensions, trimmer resistors and have used the three to two wire convertors with great success. Also the Cobalt motors are a lot smaller than the Tortoise which for me was important in certain areas around the layout. They are smaller in size all round including height. I thought for quite a while about spending a few hundred pounds again replacing the old motors with the newer version but having tested a batch first I thought I would give it a go and its working out well. The other option was a complete change and go down the servo route but this would have needed changing my SwitchPilots over to the servo version as well. Time will tell but certainly I have not had any problems at all with the new versions. The old version had problems straight out of the box ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Forgot to add, watch out for pricing on the bulk buy deals. I found that two boxes of six are cheaper than a box of twelve. I bought mine through the very nice people down in Cornwall at Kernow Model Rail Centre and they had to go to the importers at Gaugemaster to confirm this. The guy at Kernow said he would make sure I got the best deal and would let me know once he had the info from Gaugemaster. So do ask what the cost is, you may be surprised. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted March 16, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 16, 2015 Forgot to add, watch out for pricing on the bulk buy deals. I found that two boxes of six are cheaper than a box of twelve. I bought mine through the very nice people down in Cornwall at Kernow Model Rail Centre and they had to go to the importers at Gaugemaster to confirm this. The guy at Kernow said he would make sure I got the best deal and would let me know once he had the info from Gaugemaster. So do ask what the cost is, you may be surprised. A very common problem especially in supermarkets! Tins of tomatoes in Sainsbury's last week were 65p each or a pack of 4 for £4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony566 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Not sure what people a paying for packs of Cobalt iP digital i got 3 12 packs from that well know supplier in Liverpool for £177 each which i thought was a very good deal. so always shop arond for bulk deals ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Not sure what people a paying for packs of Cobalt iP digital i got 3 12 packs from that well know supplier in Liverpool for £177 each which i thought was a very good deal. so always shop arond for bulk deals ..... Assemble it yourself point motor kits here only cost US $140 for 12. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 It looks like Circuitron patented the sliding fulcrum. "What is claimed: 1. A switch actuator comprising: a housing adapted to receive an electrical switch having a toggle; a slider translationally received by the housing and linked to the toggle; and a fulcrum for receiving mid portion of a connecting rod wherein the slider has means for receiving a first end portion of the connecting rod." Google USPTO and search for Circuitron, or Google US7544911 for more info. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 It looks like Circuitron patented the sliding fulcrum. "What is claimed: 1. A switch actuator comprising: a housing adapted to receive an electrical switch having a toggle; a slider translationally received by the housing and linked to the toggle; and a fulcrum for receiving mid portion of a connecting rod wherein the slider has means for receiving a first end portion of the connecting rod." Google USPTO and search for Circuitron, or Google US7544911 for more info. Not sure why that's needed. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Not sure why that's needed. Andy To put into context the previous link to Circuitron as well as the other post questioning whether they had a patent on the Tortoise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 To put into context the previous link to Circuitron as well as the other post questioning whether they had a patent on the Tortoise. Sorry. My poor writing. I meant I'm not sure why a sliding fulcrum was needed technically. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 No worries Andy. I find the sliding fulcrum comes into its own when you have to mount the Tortoise well below the switch. Think roadbed + foam + ply. Being able to effectively adjust the length of the throw is great. Also handy when adjusting for N or O scale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 A very common problem especially in supermarkets! Tins of tomatoes in Sainsbury's last week were 65p each or a pack of 4 for £4. When in Tesco look VERY carefully at the pricing of bulk packs of toilet rolls Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium figworthy Posted March 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2015 Hi Andrew, Yes, I had similar bad experiences with the early Cobalt's as well but they were replaced no questions asked and the batch of 21 settled down to reasonable operation. But they are noisy and I had to individually tweak each one with a resister to avoid overrunning and the dreaded click that would occur. The resistor stopped this and they have operated on the layout for quite a number of years now. What size resistor are you using ? Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 What size resistor are you using ? Adrian For a dcc compliant product you shouldn't have to faff about with extra components. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 For a dcc compliant product you shouldn't have to faff about with extra components. It's not my intention to launch yet another conspiracy theory, but you are obviously unaware that the acronym "DCC" was dreamed-up in a smoke-filled room in Lower Manhattan. The title slide in the PowerPoint presentation said "Drain Customers Cash". OK, OK! There is no reason to shove. I was just about to leave anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Andrew C, they are not a DCC item. The output from the accessory decoder is just old fashion DC. The resistors range from 240 ohms up to 620 ohms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony566 Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 For a dcc compliant product you shouldn't have to faff about with extra components. Thats why these are now superceded by the Cobalt iP point motors these remove the need to add anything at all and are truly plug and play Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Thats why these are now superceded by the Cobalt iP point motors these remove the need to add anything at all and are truly plug and play Where the status quo has always been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Thats why these are now superceded by the Cobalt iP point motors these remove the need to add anything at all and are truly plug and play As we proved last night Ant, with your 1st two, of 50.ish, fitted, up and running...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tender Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I have been using seven of the new Cobalt Omega point motors for around a month now on my 7mm layout. They are in an area that is 'high usage' so have had a reasonable amount of actuations to deal with in that time. They are controlled by ESU Switch Pilots using a three to two wire adapter, DCC Concept SDC3, with a pulse duration setting in the Switch Pilot of 26. If you use the full setting of 31 it pulls the switch blades very hard against the stock rail and really that kind of duration / travel is not needed. The feed voltage is 12VDC from a stabilised lab supply and the point motors set to run on the lower voltage, 9v to 12v, by using the little switch on the point motor connect board. I checked the output voltage after the three to two wire adapter and its 9.7 volts. The points run at a reasonable speed and meet my needs at that speed. As a result of using a pulse setting in the Switch Pilot and not the K84 setting it in effect removes the power at the end of the stroke of the motor and the high gearing prevents the motor from running backwards. I had been using the K84 setting with no problems but I thought I would see how the point motors performed on pulse and having no power on them at the end of the stroke. They should in theory last longer if they are not powered all the time. If there are any problems I go back to K84 mode. No wiring change just a flick of a switch on the Switch Pilot. So at the moment they are a success and possibly I will change the other eleven point motors on the layout for the newer versions. If things change, any thing nasty happen I'll let you all know. Hi TTG Are you saying that a SwitchPilot operating in K84 mode will operate a Cobalt/Tortoise motor without the need for the SwitchPilot extension? or have i misread your post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Yes, that's right but I have not tested it with a Tortoise motor. You do need the three to two wire adapter though such as the ones made by Lenz or DCC Concept. There are two ways of doing it. Use the switch on Switch Pilot set to K84 or via the user setting with the switch in the middle and you set up all the parameters via CV's which using the Lok Programmer or the ECoS is very easy. You set the pulse duration to match the point / point motor combination with it shutting off at the end of the stroke. I am using this set up on my layout using Peco and Marcway points, the new DCC Concept Omega Cobalt point motors with them set to the 9 to 12v range via the little switch on them, ESU Switch Pilot V2 (V1 does work as well), DCC Concept SDC3 three to two wire adapters and a regulated 12VDC supply. Note, using the old Cobalt classic motors does work in the same way but I could not get enough travel out of them in the User mode. Only the K84 mode using the switch on the Switch Pilot. But it does work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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