Bachmann Spares/service Dept

[royaloak]

So Trip could have saved writing all that out if he had told us it was a second hand loco which should have been DCC sound but was only DCC fitted, those two facts should have set the alarm bells ringing.

 

I have just received some Blue Pullman bogies I ordered and not only did I get the bogies but also the fixing screws, they werent mentioned when I ordered the bogies but its a very nice touch, so thank you Dave, all I have to do now is dig out one of the Bachmann mark 1 SKs for rebogieing as 25282 (thats a lot of 2s).

[Trip]

 

It would appear that the 21-pin socket and sound decoder had been removed and replaced with an 8-pin decoder and socket and looked like this when they received it. All factory-fitted DCC sound come with a seal, if you're buying a sound loco it's worth checking that it is still intact and not been tampered with.

 

.

 

I had no idea that a 21-pin socket had been removed and replaced with an 8-pin socket. There's also a lot of extra wiring to the PCB.

 

Why didn't they just say that?

 

I didn't mind them not working on it, I did mind them being so evasive as to why.

[Trip]

So Trip could have saved writing all that out if he had told us it was a second hand loco which should have been DCC sound but was only DCC fitted.

 

I didn't know. I bought it 'pre-owned' from a very well known online model shop who listed is as 'DCC Ready' and having an 8-pin socket.  As far as I was concerned the only modifications were the addition of a decoder and keepalive (plus the loose wires I wanted fixed).

 

I asked repeatedly whether by 'modified' they meant the decoder & keepalive. If they'd said no, this loco was sold with a 21-pin decoder and it now has an 8-pin socket and lots of extra wires that would have been the end of that.

[royaloak]

I didn't know. I bought it 'pre-owned' from a very well known online model shop who listed is as 'DCC Ready' and having an 8-pin socket.  As far as I was concerned the only modifications were the addition of a decoder and keepalive (plus the loose wires I wanted fixed).

 

I asked repeatedly whether by 'modified' they meant the decoder & keepalive. If they'd said no, this loco was sold with a 21-pin decoder and it now has an 8-pin socket and lots of extra wires that would have been the end of that.

Did it come in a DCC sound box?

Genuine question, I am (begrudgingly) about to join the DCC world and something like that would probably catch me out unless it was marked on the box.

 

Edit-

A couple of years ago my Son bought a (former) DCC sound 66 off the Bachmann returns stand (sold as seen, no warranty) which had been 'converted' to DCC ready which we assumed had just the speaker and chip removed but now I am curious whether it was a more involved conversion, so I might pull it apart and see what sort of PCB it has inside.

[Trip]

Did it come in a DCC sound box?

Genuine question, I am (begrudgingly) about to join the DCC world and something like that would probably catch me out unless it was marked on the box.

.

 

I'm not sure what a DCC sound box is, but there's nothing on the box to indicate that there's DCC involved at all. In fact the box doesn't even say what model it is. (Of course it might not be the original box.)

[royaloak]

I'm not sure what a DCC sound box is, but there's nothing on the box to indicate that there's DCC involved at all. In fact the box doesn't even say what model it is. (Of course it might not be the original box.)

Ah, thats odd, normally the box will have the model number on one end, '32-425' or something like that if its a 'normal model, '32-425DCC' if its DCC fitted and '32-425DCC Sound' if its sound fitted.

 

It does sound as if you were sold a bit of a pup.

 

I am from the Hornby/Lima pancake motor era and modern models locos are far too complicated for me!

[Trip]

Ah, thats odd, normally the box will have the model number on one end, '32-425' or something like that if its a 'normal model, '32-425DCC' if its DCC fitted and '32-425DCC Sound' if its sound fitted.

 

It does sound as if you were sold a bit of a pup.

 

 

Well, to be fair I've had it for two years at least and although the wiring is ... er ... non-standard, it's worked fine until the LED wires came loose from the PCB, which was entirely my fault. (Those wires are standard.) 

[MikeParkin65]

Trip - Strikes me that there have been misunderstandings on both sides. Its always more difficult communicating by phone than face to face and it seems both you and the service department have fallen foul of some of the problems of communicating by distance.

 

2 things seem definite, first Bachmann won't have wanted to fall out with you as a customer, second you have a loco that you didn't realise was non standard that previously worked but now needs repair.

 

Bachmann don't advertise themselves as general repair specialists, they restrict themselves quite understandably to products of their own manufacture and true to their original specification.  Bachmann don't seem to have communicated that to you in a clear and amicable fashion and that has upset you. I can understand that.

 

Best way forward, I would suggest is to accept that Bachmann service is good for their standard products - you have evidence of that with the 150.

 

With the 66 you either go back to the vendor who sold you it but that is quite a while ago and might be a load more hassle and expense for no satisfactory end. Perhaps more positively why not seek out a third party specialist and ask for an estimate to repair it to a good functioning standard? . I think you are going to have to accept that this is going to involve non original parts but this is no problem (better in some ways) as long as its done properly.  From this thread you at least have a photo of the innards that you can use in an email to potential repairers! Good luck 

[stewartingram]

Sounds like it could be a simple repair job, though I come out in favour of Bachman's position. If is just leds at one end, could you copy the wiring from the other end to solder it on?

 

Stewart

[Trip]

Actually I was wrong about the box, it has 'DCC Ready' on it. In fact it's this box:

 

 

 

Bachmann don't advertise themselves as general repair specialists, they restrict themselves quite understandably to products of their own manufacture and true to their original specification.  Bachmann don't seem to have communicated that to you in a clear and amicable fashion and that has upset you. I can understand that.

 

 

They did communicate that, and I fully accepted it at the time. What I wanted to know was whether the addition of the decoder and KA was the modification they objected to (because that was the only modification I was aware of) or whether it was something else (which I knew was possible because it was second hand).

 

Clearly, it was something else. If they'd said "this loco has had the chip and socket removed and replaced with a different socket" that would have been a perfectly reasonable explanation. But aside from the initial claim that I'd hard-wired a decoder (which I knew was wrong) the only things they mentioned were the decoder, the KA, and the loose wires (which was the fault I wanted fixed). 

 

I'm somewhat surprised to find they have decided to give the explanation, and other details of my order, to another customer.

[Trip]

Sounds like it could be a simple repair job, though I come out in favour of Bachman's position. If is just leds at one end, could you copy the wiring from the other end to solder it on?

 

Stewart

 

I know where they need to be reattached but  the wires and attachment points are very small and it's beyond my soldering skills. I'd just end up causing more damage. It's working, other than the lights, so I don't really mind that it isn't repaired. 

[MikeParkin65]

Actually I was wrong about the box, it has 'DCC Ready' on it. In fact it's this box:

 

 

 

 

 

I'm somewhat surprised to find they have decided to give the explanation, and other details of my order, to another customer.

To be fair you have lambasted them on a public forum. 

[D9020 Nimbus]

To be fair you have lambasted them on a public forum.

 

As far as I can see the O.P. simply repeated a conversation he had with two members of Bachmann staff—if that qualifies as "lambasting" it doesn't say much for their customer service.

 

Of course Andy Y. is not just "another customer"!

[royaloak]

Actually I was wrong about the box, it has 'DCC Ready' on it. In fact it's this box:

 

 

 

I'm somewhat surprised to find they have decided to give the explanation, and other details of my order, to another customer.

66135 (model number 32-725) is shown as having an 8 pin socket so yours should be correct, 32-725DS DCC sound) should be Class 66 66022 so I dont know what has happened to your loco for it to get all the extra wires.

.

 

As for telling another customer about your issues, it isnt just any other customer, Andy Y is well known throughout the industry as a bit of a problem solver and go between and I am certain they wouldnt have told anyone other than Andy Y about it.

[royaloak]

To be fair you have lambasted them on a public forum. 

Thats a bit harsh, he was 'venting' but a bit more info from Bachmann as to the reasons they wouldnt help could have prevented the misunderstanding.  

[MikeParkin65]

Thats a bit harsh, he was 'venting' but a bit more info from Bachmann as to the reasons they wouldnt help could have prevented the misunderstanding.

 

I don’t think it is harsh to be honest. We haven’t a transcript of the conversation but I would bet money that the Bachmann account of the same exchange would be subtly different to the customers and I tried to cover that in my earlier post. Given that Trip went public with his account, ‘vented’ if you like, I think it’s a bit much implying Bachmann are in any way out of order for presenting their side of the exchange by relaying the tale through Andy.

[sanspareil]

After many common sense and positive dealings with Bachmann service over the many years my most recent dealing was not so good.

 

I bought a loco mail order from a small shop, the last one they had. Once i got the loco it was apparent that a couple of the wheels were out of true so the loco wobbled badly. This is not the first time i have had this with Bachmann models. Based on previous experience i was not that concerned. On contacting Bachmann in the past after going through some checks (proof of purchase, sometimes sending the affected wheels back to them etc) they just send out new wheels for you to fit if you are happy to do so yourself.

However this time there was a strict instance the loco is returned to them at my cost. I would have to pack up the loco, go to the post office, pay for insured post, lose the loco for an unspecified amount of time, probably miss the return delivery and so on. Basically a load of hassle and extra cost for the customer who if QC was up to scratch should not be facing such issues in the first place. It also means higher costs for Bachmann in having to do the repair themselves and post the full loco back.

 

A cynic might suggest this approach is deliberate to put people off contacting the service team for small warranty repairs? It would actually have been cheaper (and was suggested as that) to just buy two sets of wheels and have them posted to me. In the end all i did was swap the wheels off a lesser used loco in my collection, not right or very fair.

 

Maybe I got someone on a bad day at Bachmann service (i think it was actually a manager though)?  Is it correct/fair/legal that Bachmann dont provide free post of the item to their service centre? 

 

My dealings with all the service depts at the major model manufacturers have been nothing short of amazing over the years. Hornby even sent me a free motor when one failed after just 14 months (ie out of warranty). This most recent episode however has left me feeling disappointed and far from a valued customer.

[royaloak]

Maybe they have got fed up of some people effectively using them as a free spares service and are now insisting the faulty loco is returned to them so they can check it is indeed faulty and then repair it.

 

As for the rest of your post ' lose the loco for an unspecified amount of time, probably miss the return delivery and so on', seriously?

The loco is not lost, you can easily rearrange delivery, Bachmann would (I am sure) refund the postage costs you have incurred once the loco has been proved defective.

These are mass produced items and some will have defects as every other mass produced item!

 

May I recommend you never buy a new car because taking it to and from the service centre for the warranty repairs would drive you insane!

[sanspareil]

Maybe they have got fed up of some people effectively using them as a free spares service and are now insisting the faulty loco is returned to them so they can check it is indeed faulty and then repair it.

 

As for the rest of your post ' lose the loco for an unspecified amount of time, probably miss the return delivery and so on', seriously?

The loco is not lost, you can easily rearrange delivery, Bachmann would (I am sure) refund the postage costs you have incurred once the loco has been proved defective.

These are mass produced items and some will have defects as every other mass produced item!

 

May I recommend you never buy a new car because taking it to and from the service centre for the warranty repairs would drive you insane!

 

I agree there probably was the potential for abuse and in my opinion they should on the whole run a more consistently tighter ship if this was going on and took each case on its merits ie a common sense approach. They could have tightened up without going this far and further annoying already disappointed customers.

 

There is also a bit of a difference between an item that develops an unlucky random fault within its warranty period and one that is faulty out of the box due to poor QC on the suppliers part. I am sure i wont be the only person more than a little saddened to have spent an ever increasing amount of hard to come by money on a defective item that should not have left the factory that way. The very least they could do is offer free postage to correct the issue, if they did I probably would not be writing this post!  Could I wish that your next purchase is defective out of the box and you are as understanding towards the supplier and willing to pay yet further money to have it resolved?

 

To add Bachmann said they would not refund my postage, sorry to disappoint.

[royaloak]

To add Bachmann said they would not refund my postage, sorry to disappoint.

That is rather harsh.

[Butler Henderson]

That is rather harsh.

Had the same with Dapol.

[stewartingram]

When you purchase a loco from a shop, they are legally responsible for it, not the manufacturer. They should stamp the warranty certificate too, this is probably why Bachmann want to see the loco as you are going direct to them.

[Silver Sidelines]

As Stewart says - your first port of call is the retailer who has the option to replace or refund.

 

I wouldn't want Bachmann to be handing out free replacement wheel sets, motors etc to every Tom Dick and Harry who thought they fancied a replacement.

 

Ray

[MikeParkin65]

 Once i got the loco it was apparent that a couple of the wheels were out of true so the loco wobbled badly. This is not the first time i have had this with Bachmann models. 

 

 

Not doubting your experience but out of 50 Bachmann loco's purchased over 13 years I have never had one that wobbled badly or even noticeably. I just say this to add some contrast to your suggestion that Bachmann loco's have a particular issue.

 

In fact out the 50 I own I only have one failure - a Fairburn tank with binding gears.  

[Bob Reid]

My first port of call would have been to the retailer given they'd supplied you with a duff loco in the first place for either a replacement or your money back.  Given though you've already changed the wheels is the warranty now void?