Film and tv railway errors

[Brit70053]

I recall a howler from a 'who done it' drama set I think in the 1930s or 1940s and broadcast many years ago, where a character was returning to London on the Brighton Belle.

One scene showed a view of the plush interior of a PULLMAN parlour car, followed by a sequence in which 'The Belle' was being hauled by a bright green liveried 0-4-0 industrial saddle tank at all of 5 mph.

It was so bad its no surprise I can't recall the title or other details.

 

Regards,

 

John

[andyram]

What a lot of interest this thread has created!

 

What you need to remember is that tv/films are only there to satisfy the majority, who wouldn't know or give a damn if the train on screne is correct.

I appreciate your point. The TV and films are indeed not always bothered whether the train on screen is correct, and I also agree that the majority of viewers will not be bothered. Railway enthusiasts will spot these errors however, and whilst some may just laugh at them (like me) others may get annoyed by them. I would guess that all RMWeb users are interested in railways so I aimed the thread at such people and not the "general" viewer who would have no interest!

 

As regards trains passing stations in the wrong order etc, unless you know the line concerned (and most viewers won't) it makes no difference to the end product. In fact I often despair with the apawling lack of geographical knowledge in people these days. Only recently I had to enlighten several of my collegues how to get to Welwyn Garden City from Crawley as they had no idea.

I agree with your point for films such as the Enigma one I mentioned. However no excuse for the Top Gear errors especially as they were trying to suggest the trains were making a single journey along the line!

 

I can accept the use of the wrong type of train or location for a programme because there are only a few options available to the film-makers but what I cannot accept are the kind of continuity errors in Michael Portillo's series about British train journeys. 

 

He gets into train type A, you then get an aerial shot of train type B and finally he gets out of train type C.

 

Surely even the most brain - dead viewer could notice this. It is as though he gets into a blue Ford, there is an aerial view of a silver Renault and then he steps out of a yellow Citroen.

 

Ian

Michael Portillo's show is one of the worst for such errors. I remember a Settle and Carlisle trip where the steam locomotive changed three times and a trip on a Preserved line where the loco changed from a GWR tender engine to a Prairie tank!

[C&WR]

Sliding Doors.  If I recall correctly, Gwynnie Paltrow goes into an underground station which is supposed to be Embankment but she has entered from somewhere around London Wall.  The line turns out to be The Drain, but she gets out at a western part of the District line.

[Edwin_m]

I'm personally not too bothered by continuity "errors" in the likes of Portillo.  They obviously have to work around the operating railway and time available for filming will be limited, so if they have to do several takes on different trains I wouldn't expect them to have to wait until the same class turns up to ensure absolute consistency (and even then people would complain if the unit number changed en route).  Similarly to minimise hire costs and take advantage of weather conditions the helicopter shots will not be taken at the same time as the rest of the programme, and as long as they show a representative train on the correct route I don't see a problem.  This is especially so when travelling on Northern, where the out-of-a-hat diagramming policy means that the wait for the next unit of the same class may be a long one! 

 

Similarly I'm not too bothered if the train type is broadly representative of the era and area depicted.  Even Mk1s in a WW2 setting don't concern me too much as long as the livery is roughly appropriate for the region being depicted, although with little effort a BR Standard could look a bit more like one of the big 4 types it was based on.  What I think is both avoidable and ridiculous is when the train type is either obviously grossly wrong (eg steam train for the modern era) or changes en route. 

[Sasquatch]

They'd run through to the other side, stock up at Carrefour, then head back again..

There are 'ordinary' vehicles used in the Service Tunnel; originally a mixture of electric and diesel Peugeot 205s were used to take technical staff to and fro (subsequently replaced, but I can't remember what with), short-wheelbase 'Ladog' vehicles. It is possible to turn a 205 around, if you've got a convenient Cross-Passage Door entrance- not sure if it would be possible to do the same with a larger vehicle. On a busy works-night, there can be more than fifty vehicles in the Service Tunnel; only a small proportion will be purpose-built.

I'd just love to ride a Gillera 180 through there, I bet the compression is nuts! Dream on huh!!

['CHARD]

....a sequence in which 'The Belle' was being hauled by a bright green liveried 0-4-0 industrial saddle tank at all of 5 mph.

It was so bad its no surprise I can't recall the title or other details.

 

 

I think I can; it's an advert for one of this year's Hornby sets.

[andyram]

Thought of another continuity error. I believe in "Goodnight Mr Tom" the class of loco changes, but the number doesn't between departure and arrival.

['CHARD]

Sliding Doors.  If I recall correctly, Gwynnie Paltrow goes into an underground station which is supposed to be Embankment but she has entered from somewhere around London Wall.  The line turns out to be The Drain, but she gets out at a western part of the District line.

 

I can forgive any train continuity error in the genius production that is Sliding Doors with the frankly edible Paltrow.

[SRman]

I seem to recall an Agatha Christie story where the locomotives changed repeatedly in different shots (even changing from tender to tank locos and back again!). Additionally, they showed shots of the trains running on single track, then interior shots where a train races past in the opposite direction.

In a Norman Wisdom film, Norman handcuffs himself to a villain on a tube train and gets stuck on the outside of the doors while the supposed villain is inside. the train takes off to go to the next station, then continues on again from there. What's wrong with this, you ask? It was shot on the Waterloo and City line which has only two stations! The tube train was a Bulleid designed set.

 

In the latter case, you can understand why the subterfuge was used since the W&C was closed on Sundays, making it ideal for filming assignments. In the former case, there's no possible excuse except for laziness. Many film directors go to great lengths to set the historical accuracy with road vehicles but fall right down where rail is concerned. Then again, there have been some howlers with wrong era road vehicles too - post-war Bedford lorries and London RT/RTL buses in pre-war settings, for example.

['CHARD]

I'm sure someone's written a thesis on this subject.  But in case they haven't....

...only kidding.

 

However, I wonder (as per the car comparison above) what 'they' (the film makers) get away with in other genres.  Do they switch between civil engineering styles of iconic buildings as film settings, without anyone batting an eyelid?  Do they flit from one style of boat to another with no adverse comment?   Can they substitute one sports team squad for another with no-one being any the wiser?  

 

Or are we just over-sensitive?  I don't think we are, but I would fail to spot any continuity errors in the imaginary scenarios I just listed, I'm certain.

[Torn-on-the-platform]

The BBC's re-make of the 39-steps is a fantastic film. In London, Hannay boards what appears to me as a carriage correct for the era. Unfortunately, as the train heads to Scotland, it morphs into some crimson-cream Mk1s. Despite this, the film is still recommended.

 

Chuck may not be a series well known to many members of this forum, but its my favourite series. Its quite difficult to explain the plot, but its an American comedy/drama about an accidental spy. One episode is set on a train through Europe. The establishing shots vary from modern European commuter trains to the Bluebell's U class pulling their Pullman set.

 

Didn't the recent Stella advert have a diesel with a steam whistle? I know this isn't unheard of in practice but it did annoy me when I first saw the advert!

 

I don't really mind the errors as long as they are still using steam engines! I can't imagine the Hogwarts Express is REALLY formed of Mk1s! 

[Pacific231G]

Anyone remember "The Train" starring Burt Lancaster? Very impressive, and much attention made to accuracy (within reason!), and it seemed like the stars did a fair amount of their own driving and firing.

What? The action was supposed to be taking place in the Est  region yet from the architecture of the stations "Rive-Reine" and "St.Avold" they were clearly on the C.F. Orleans-Rouen, We saw Burt Lancaster sabotaging a stretch of bullhead which the Est didn't use and just exactly what was a CF de l'Ouest 030C doing so far east of Paris ??   I'm not serious of course as the film makers, and the SNCF people they worked with, did go out of their way to be as accurate as possible and, unless you're an expert,  French railway architecture tends to follow fairly common overall designs.  What did surprise me when I looked into the film a bit was that though the main scenes were filmed on lines south of Rouen, well away from the places like Verdun, Metz and Pont a Mousson depicted, the main locomotives used were Est 230Bs. These must have been brought over specially, presumably just before scrapping. Given that at that time there were plenty of steam locos being retired more locally on the Western region, someone clearly went out of their way to get that bit right. 

 

"The Train" is one of my favourite movies and in 2008 I wrote an article about Acquigny, the real location used for "Rive-Reine", and the film's other locations for the SNCF Society. It's here if you're interested http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/peclegg/sncf/articles/article_2008_07.html . Sadly though, the paper trains no longer run through Acquigny since RFF demanded a small fortune from the paper company for track renewal (though not as much as was then required to build a new autoroute junction for all the extra lorries that replaced the trains)  and when I passed that way a year ago the line was gently rusting again.

 

Most of the locations used for fillming "The Train" can still be found . The movie is, perhaps surprisingly, based loosely on a real though not nearly so dramatic incident just before the liberation of Paris. Some of the sequences depicting the actions to delay the train were based on those in "Bataille de Rail". This was a sort of drama documentary made immediately after the occupation when the railway infrastructure was still being repaired. It painted a posibly rather idealised picture of the activities of Resistance Fer and does show French railway operating methods at that time extremely well. 

Edited November 4, 2013 by Pacific231G

[TheQ]

The film Cockleshell heros, has very little to do with reality, About the only thing in common with the real event was paddleing up river to attack shipping, However from the railway point of view it was a wartime film complete with a tank engine in BR black with the ferret and dartboard on the side.

The Q

[C&WR]

'CHARD, on 03 Nov 2013 - 22:54, said:

 

I can forgive any train continuity error in the genius production that is Sliding Doors with the frankly edible Paltrow.

Good point, well made. I can even forgive her accent bearing in mind the film was made before she went a bit odd!

 

Edit to add:

 

Edible? You'd need a decent side dish or you'd be hungry again before your next meal

Edited November 4, 2013 by C&WR

[RhBBob]

I'm personally not too bothered by continuity "errors" in the likes of Portillo.  They obviously have to work around the operating railway and time available for filming will be limited, so if they have to do several takes on different trains I wouldn't expect them to have to wait until the same class turns up to ensure absolute consistency (and even then people would complain if the unit number changed en route). 

 

Agree, as our Switzerland tour guide said ' trains wait for no-one'.

[The Stationmaster]

I'm sure someone's written a thesis on this subject.  But in case they haven't....

...only kidding.

 

However, I wonder (as per the car comparison above) what 'they' (the film makers) get away with in other genres.  Do they switch between civil engineering styles of iconic buildings as film settings, without anyone batting an eyelid?  Do they flit from one style of boat to another with no adverse comment?   Can they substitute one sports team squad for another with no-one being any the wiser?  

 

Or are we just over-sensitive?  I don't think we are, but I would fail to spot any continuity errors in the imaginary scenarios I just listed, I'm certain.

 

Many of them just don't know - many years ago when I was covering a job in passenger commercial I dealt with such things as crankexs and film and tv hire of facilities and I had a call from a film company who wanted to 'hire a Blue Pullman train please'.  After several long chats it turned out that what they actually wanted was a train which was at least partially painted blue (easy) plus a couple of stations starting the train from one (somewhere in southern England) and getting off at the other, somewhere in Scotland.  So I duly arranged for them to have a train and partial use of a branchline in between the booked service - look for 'The Magic Christian' starring Ringo Starr and Peter Sellars, among others plus an anonymous Henley-On-Thames, and Wargrave disguised as 'somewhere in Scotland', and some rather nice period (now) footage of the Henley branch as a result; filming has it advantages even if it is all fantasy.

[Fat Controller]

I'm sure someone's written a thesis on this subject.  But in case they haven't....

...only kidding.

 

However, I wonder (as per the car comparison above) what 'they' (the film makers) get away with in other genres.  Do they switch between civil engineering styles of iconic buildings as film settings, without anyone batting an eyelid?  Do they flit from one style of boat to another with no adverse comment?   Can they substitute one sports team squad for another with no-one being any the wiser?  

 

Or are we just over-sensitive?  I don't think we are, but I would fail to spot any continuity errors in the imaginary scenarios I just listed, I'm certain.

There's even a name for this, I believe; 'Cognitive dissonance', where someone portrays a subject that you have considerable knowledge of, and the portrayal differs significantly to your idealised perception. It happens in other fields as well; a 1960s-era Pelé in a football team in wartime Germany, for example..

It's almost inevitable when the director's had to rely on library footage, as such footage was generally not staged with a particular future use in mind. Sometimes, the use of stock shots with slight factual errors can be better than trying to replicate the sequence in the present day. Imagine, if you will, the following two scenarios for an (imaginary) film set in the Battle of Britain :-

A library shot of a Mk IX Spitfire, taken during WW2 over S E Kent; the aircraft is of a type that wsn't to fly until a year, at least, after the Battle.

A newly-filmed shot of a correct-period MkII Spitfire over S E Kent; unfortunately, in the latter, you can see pylons, the M20, big fields with combine harvesters, possibly even the Channel Tunnel terminal.

An aircraft enthusiast would throw up their hands in horror at the first; a more generalist pedant would react in a similar way to the second.

I was amused by the comments about Harry Potter; never mind the changing identity of the loco, Anglias used to have enough problems on hills, let alone flying...

[uax6]

But it's not just restricted to Railways and cars. Most props departments have very little clue on most things. The one tha gets my goat more than anything at the minute is the use of polished brass candlestick telephones. They look very pretty and you would think that they would be correct for Downton Abbey, but sadly the GPO NEVER had polished brass telephones. Indeed they went to a lot of trouble and cost to have the brass parts blackened......

 

I'm sure there are other things that are wrong in this series, but nothing else has stood out yet!

 

Andy G

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 Does the continuity go significantly awry in Portillo's European railway journeys now showing? I certainly don't have sufficient detail knowledge to really notice it while vegging out on Sunday evening. Though what I did notice yesterday  was that commemorative plaque to the the Stephensons, Giorgio e Roberto. With a suitable mention of Richard Trevithick as the first to succeed with steam locomotion on rails, that should be reproduced and prominently displayed on every UK railway station, commemorating those who provided the integrated mechanised transport concept that enabled large scale development.

I can forgive any train continuity error in the genius production that is Sliding Doors with the frankly edible Paltrow.

 Totally carries that movie while simultaneously being the hugest plot hole imaginable: the saddo boyf surely wouldn't have lasted beyond the first half hour of their first encounter... Off topic I know, but this does rather indicate how her potential has been largely squandered in the decade plus since.

[C&WR]

Completely OT but I always wondered how someone who quoted Monty Python constantly could be seen to be a sex symbol!

[SM42]

I'm sure it's not just us railway savvy folk who notice such errors. After all there is a whole series of programmes on movie mistakes.

 

Mind you having said that, not seen many train mistakes mentioned. perhaps there are too many.

 

Andy

[28XX]

But it's not just restricted to Railways and cars. Most props departments have very little clue on most things. The one tha gets my goat more than anything at the minute is the use of polished brass candlestick telephones. They look very pretty and you would think that they would be correct for Downton Abbey, but sadly the GPO NEVER had polished brass telephones. Indeed they went to a lot of trouble and cost to have the brass parts blackened......

 

I'm sure there are other things that are wrong in this series, but nothing else has stood out yet!

 

Andy G

Quartz crystal regulated timepieces for one.

[28XX]

Midsomer Murders repeat over the weekend with a green liveried bubble car, but set in this century.

[St. Simon]

Midsomer Murders repeat over the weekend with a green liveried bubble car, but set in this century.

Hi,

 

It could actually be correct, Chiltern Railways still operates a BR Green Class 121 between Aylesbury and Princess Risborough

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nigelmatthews/6378989491/in/photostream/

 

Simon

[PatB]

I've mentioned it before, but in the post apocalyptic movie Doomsday a fully functional steam locomotive turns up, in the middle of a Scotland which has been quarantined for nearly 30 years, without any apparent supporting infrastructure. It and it's associated rolling stock appear to be South African.