Film and tv railway errors

[Pacific231G]

 

Notice how the loco changes.

 

That's nothing. In the BBC's famous London to Brighton in Four Minutes the speed has the extraordinary effect of morphing the train from the Brighton Belle to an ordinary EMU.

[PatB]

That's nothing. In the BBC's famous London to Brighton in Four Minutes the speed has the extraordinary effect of morphing the train from the Brighton Belle to an ordinary EMU.

 

Well I've heard of blue-shift and red-shift as the result of very high speeds, so, presumably, when applied to rail vehicles rather than space ones, you get green-shift .

[Pacific231G]

Well I've heard of blue-shift and red-shift as the result of very high speeds, so, presumably, when applied to rail vehicles rather than space ones, you get green-shift .

Now that's just silly Pat. There's no such thing as green-shift and it's obvious there was an event violation with the train getting into a spacetime when the Brighton Belle couldn't  exist. That would be an impossible paradox so the normally infinitesimal probability of the train turning from Brighton Belle to non Pullman stock would have to occur or reality would cease. It's just fortunate that a train rather than a bowl of petunias and a blue whale turned up in Brighton.

 

It's a bit like the situation in France where the presence of all those high speed lines, where TGVs travel faster than trains are supposed to, can only be balanced by large parts of the classic network running very slowly or even turning into buses.  

Edited December 22, 2013 by Pacific231G

[jamie.dunn]

Something i found yesterday for the famous Lee Evans

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M1ZNOQEAXs

 

The first thing is at 4:50 they can be seen getting into MK4 stock but a few seconds later they are in a sleeping compartment.

 

But when Lee goes in to the toilet its about twice the size of the 'bedroom' area.

[Metr0Land]

"Foyle's War" - set in 1946, using a Routemaster bus, not introduced until 1956 !

 

Dennis

 

Not to mention several episodes in the 40's and early 50's where cars have numbers preceding letters on the number plates

[Welchester]

The more changes, the more reference material! What film is it from?

 

Pete

It's The Last Journey - available on DVD.

[108]

Currently watching Force 10 From Navarone. This is supposedly set behind German lines during WWII. Strange to see the good guys clambering into a "boxcar" complete with TOPS panel. A VBA!

[Merfyn Jones]

Currently watching Force 10 From Navarone. This is supposedly set behind German lines during WWII. Strange to see the good guys clambering into a "boxcar" complete with TOPS panel. A VBA!

 

Yes noticed that and the 3 German army lorries, a Bedford OL, Bedford ML and Austin K2.

Enjoyed the film though, not seen it for years.

[Pacific231G]

All dramas require some suspension of disbelief so I tend to judge railway (and other) scenes in film and on TV by whether they convey the appropriate impression of period and location rather than by absolute accuracy of every detail.

So, I'm quite happy with Murder on the Orient Express (the movie version) even though I know that the real OE during the 1930s wasn't hauled from Istanbul by a French loco because the CIWL always used local motive power and AFAIK the composition of the winter service, though it could be that short, wouldn't have included a Wagon Restaurant until it got to Greece, wouldn't have included a Pullman saloon at all and would have added some more sleeping cars before it got into Jugoslavia. Despite those "errors" it felt like the real thing unlike Murder on the Blue Train which was clearly filmed on the Nene Valley complete with typically British high level platforms and equally British signals.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Pacific231G

[Steve O.]

In an earlier episode of downtown abbey they get on a correct LNER train for the 1920's. But in the background you have an 08 shunter in the yard and the loco shed has also got modern scaffolding around it.

Alistair

Just watched that episode!

The loco has a belpaire firebox and smoke deflectors, and the brake van is an LNER (or even BR?) version.

All in 1922...

[Boco_D1]

I recall a few, the 'Northern' livery engine in 'Miss Potter' for one and the fight scene on the bullet train in 'The Wolverine' the overhead wires are visible but the signals are in the path of the pantograph! And don't get me started on channel 5's Great Western show!

[Herr Dienstleiter]

The trouble is that is that if any of us know anything about a particular area we will soon be catching the set designers out ... the marriage scene at the end of the BBC's Pride & Prejudice adaptation, otherwise wholly admitable, for instance, shows a cross and lights on the altar. OK? No. The Privy Council Legal Committee was still ruling altar lights illegal in 1890s. Ecclesiatical dress is rarely portrayed correctly and railway modellers are amongst the worst offenders.

Professional interest, d'ye see.

 

(The Revd.) Herr Dienstleiter

[Welchester]

The Privy Council Legal Committee was still ruling altar lights illegal in 1890s.

 

My recollection (from my studies in ecclesiatical history, not from the 1890s) is that altar lights were ruled illegal when not needed for the purposes of lighting.

 

I'll get my Cappa Magna.

[John M Upton]

The 7:39, silly two part BBC drama shown over the last two nights bout a couple of commuters meeting on a train and, well you can guess the rest...

 

Throughout on the money accuracy wise (I am guessing other than Waterloo, the other station was Woking?) no mysterious changing of stock mid journey, even the right motor noise as the train departed Waterloo at one point.

 

Pity about the slight gaffe towards the end, didn't know SWT Class 444 Desiro's were cleared for the Seaford branch...

[Pacific231G]

All dramas require some suspension of disbelief so I tend to judge railway (and other) scenes in film and on TV by whether they convey the appropriate impression of period and location rather than by absolute accuracy of every detail.

 

But this certainly didn't apply to the first episode of the new series of Sherlock. Part of the action was supposed to take place on an Underground car  (they got that right and got a script line out of it) left full of explosives at a never opened District Line station between Westminster and St. James Park underneath the Houses of Parliament. So far so fantastic but that's OK and everyone knows that the London Underground is full of mysterious tunnels leading to secret locations - even if it isn't. 

The daft bit though was the trains we saw from the outside including the one rigged to explode were all tube stock while the interior scenes in the car were shot inside a sub surface car as per the script. This made the car itself a TARDIS.

It wouldn't matter a hoot to the average viewer if a Picadilly Line train substituted for the Northern Line but the difference between the big underground trains and the little ones is well known to every Londoner and most everyone else. It would almost be like filming a scene supposedly in London with yellow buses. 

[C&WR]

I'm afraid to say I lived and worked in London, commuting in and out of the City, for seven years and have traveled on the various bits of the Underground all my life.  I also have an enthusiasm for railways and would love to build an underground layout.

 

However, in the tension of the moment, I didn't even notice the switch between the different types of stock!

[New Haven Neil]

and everyone knows that the London Underground is full of mysterious tunnels leading to secret locations - even if it isn't. 

 

Really?

 

http://underground-history.co.uk/brompton.php

[Edwin_m]

But this certainly didn't apply to the first episode of the new series of Sherlock. Part of the action was supposed to take place on an Underground car  (they got that right and got a script line out of it) left full of explosives at a never opened District Line station between Westminster and St. James Park underneath the Houses of Parliament. So far so fantastic but that's OK and everyone knows that the London Underground is full of mysterious tunnels leading to secret locations - even if it isn't. 

The daft bit though was the trains we saw from the outside including the one rigged to explode were all tube stock while the interior scenes in the car were shot inside a sub surface car as per the script. This made the car itself a TARDIS.

It wouldn't matter a hoot to the average viewer if a Picadilly Line train substituted for the Northern Line but the difference between the big underground trains and the little ones is well known to every Londoner and most everyone else. It would almost be like filming a scene supposedly in London with yellow buses. 

That must have been before the villain blew it all up in Skyfall.  Where James Bond was definitely travelling on the District line in Tube stock too...

[OnTheBranchline]

Nah, you must be mistaken, GWR, 4-6-0, they're all the same.

 

Mike.

 

Especially the ones named after buildings!

[Pacific231G]

I've just been watching the first episode of the new series of Hell on Wheels and I'm curious about something.

In the episode the camp has been in the grip of a particularly harsh winter ISTR after an attack had left most of it burnt out. Most people seem to have frozen to death and the hero has comes pretty close. He escapes this frozen hell by getting up steam in the loco that's been stuck with them and simply driving it back to civlisation.

 

My query is what would you really have to do to get a steam loco that's been frozen up for days or weeks back into action?  Obviously though a lot more than simply getting a fire going in the firebox and wait for the frozen water in the boiler to melt and eventually boil. Even if the boiler had been drained, getting a source of liquid water to refill it would surely be a major challenge but then how do steam railways deal with an extremely long cold period. . 

Anyone who really understands steam locos care to comment?

Edited January 23, 2014 by Pacific231G

[Arthur]

You also have to thaw out the motion and bearings which are also frozen solid. This is featured in the 1955 BTF film 'Snowdrift at Bleath Gill' where locomotives which have been trapped for days in snow drifts are being rescued.

[wombatofludham]

Well, to redress the balance I have to praise the railway scenes in the daytime light drama "Father Brown" on BBC1.  Set in the Cotswolds in the 50s, the train sequences were shot on the Gloucester and Warwickshire railway and have been well implemented - GWR Manors hauling Mk1 rakes on "Paddington" to "Worcester Shrub Hill" services.  OK, the Manor might be slightly off-piste but frankly all copper kettles look the same so it more than passes muster as a body double for a Hall, but more importantly is the correct railway and in the correct livery, and the coaches carry WR Chocolate and Cream which wasn't introduced until the early 1960s if I recall correctly, and of course would have been kept for the prestige expresses, not necessarily a Worcester semi-fast, but at least it isn't GWR, LMS or LNER.  It's also unlikely you'd have found a complete Mk1 rake without a Hawksworth or other pre-Nationalisation design in the rake, and interior shots showed a range of upholstery all of which dated from at least ten years later, but it shows that it is possible to get things far more accurate than was achieved in the woeful Great Train fiasco.  What is even more surprising is this level of detail was achieved by a daytime drama - the BBC's commissioning costs for daytime drama are much less than the primetime Great Train drama would have been commissioned for, so the budget for Father Brown would be less, per hour, than the Great Train drama, which shows it isn't all a matter of cost.

 

Not 100% perfect but close enough to make allowances and suspend belief.

[bluebottle]

Well, to redress the balance I have to praise the railway scenes in the daytime light drama "Father Brown" on BBC1 ... 

... Not 100% perfect but close enough to make allowances and suspend belief.

 

It being set on the Jee-Dubbleyoo-Arr, any greater level of authenticity in this programme would have been wasted on me anyway, so I enjoyed it in the same way as anyone else who likes steam-powered trains (and G. K. Chesterton).

TBH, I suspect that those who complain loudest and longest about “mistakes” in feature films and TV dramas are those who most enjoy looking for anomalies and airing their righteous indignation about them.

[Pacific231G]

You also have to thaw out the motion and bearings which are also frozen solid. This is featured in the 1955 BTF film 'Snowdrift at Bleath Gill' where locomotives which have been trapped for days in snow drifts are being rescued.

That was what I was thinking about when I saw the scene in which our hero simply brushed the snow out of the motion. At Bleath Gill ISTR they had to use steam lances and burning cotton waste to thaw everything out and that was only to make the locos towable: there was no attempt to raise steam. I'd assume that a boiler that froze with water in it would need half the tubes replaced and that you'd drain the boiler to avoid that happening but maybe firetubes are far sturdier.  This sort of thing must have been quite common in colder climates than Britain's but I've no idea how it was dealt with. I'd always assumed that if you got stuck in a snow drift you maintained some boiler pressure and made judicious use of the available steam to keep things from freezing up. In cold climates water towers were often equipped with small furnaces to keep the water from freezing.

AFAIR CIWL sleeping cars each had their own small coal/coke fired boiler to supply heating independently of train heating but I don't know when or if they stopped needing that.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Pacific231G

[wombatofludham]

I must admit I am also left cold by the GWR, a railway which delighted in naming locos after the gentry and their draughty piles and thought it's workforce were "servants" offends my proletarian sentiments, but it does look nice on the telly.

 

I have to admit though I do enjoy gaffe spotting in tv productions, not with any sense of indignation, just for a laugh, or sometimes a groan. Equally though I do enjoy it when producers manage to pull off a reasonable attempt at period setting.