Coombe Barton Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Whilst searching in a box I'd forgotten I had I found a couple of unused Portescap motors/gearboxes, an RG4 and a 1219. These must be 25 years old and I thought I'd lost them. They are, of course, ultra stiff and I don't want to put power to them until they have a chance of turning. Has anyone any recommendation how (if) I could bring these back to life? I know their price 25 years ago and a search on eBay says they're fetching 2 1/2 times that today. And secondly, are they really worth it or should I dispose of them and get a High Level equivalent? I could have a use for them, but don't want to play the fool (more than I do anyway) and spend time on them when I could be doing something more useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Working on the "what do I know?" and "Bodgit" principles - how about powering it with a vari-speed electric drill - which should have the torque to overcome the initial resistance without damaging the motor - probably a daft suggestion, actioned at your own risk! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Whilst searching in a box I'd forgotten I had I found a couple of unused Portescap motors/gearboxes, an RG4 and a 1219. These must be 25 years old and I thought I'd lost them. They are, of course, ultra stiff and I don't want to put power to them until they have a chance of turning. Has anyone any recommendation how (if) I could bring these back to life? I know their price 25 years ago and a search on eBay says they're fetching 2 1/2 times that today. And secondly, are they really worth it or should I dispose of them and get a High Level equivalent? I could have a use for them, but don't want to play the fool (more than I do anyway) and spend time on them when I could be doing something more useful. In your favour, I'd guess the stiffness is down to congealed lubricant on the gear shafts, which are accessible, rather than the motor bearings, which aren't. But you've seen the going market rate for them. I'd wager you'd get a rather more than 'a' High Level box if you were to cash-in your Portescaps! The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 John, I had the same problem, so took the motor off the gearbox and immersed the box in white spirit overnight to dissolve the old lubricant. Then reassembled and added new oil. I used a light warchmakers oil, but think that there may have been a thread either on RMWeb or the S4 Society forum on suitable lubricants. Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 In your favour, I'd guess the stiffness is down to congealed lubricant on the gear shafts, which are accessible, rather than the motor bearings, which aren't. But you've seen the going market rate for them. I'd wager you'd get a rather more than 'a' High Level box if you were to cash-in your Portescaps! The Nim. Looks that way - I've also found this thread - didn't come up when I searched before - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/42037-lubrication-problem-with-portescap-motorgearboxes/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted November 17, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2013 John, I had the same problem, so took the motor off the gearbox and immersed the box in white spirit overnight to dissolve the old lubricant. Then reassembled and added new oil. I used a light warchmakers oil, but think that there may have been a thread either on RMWeb or the S4 Society forum on suitable lubricants. Jol I've used the same method as Jol very successfully with my "strategic reserve" of Portescaps; I certainly agree with NOT powering them up until the gearbox is running free. I don't know what they were originally lubricated with, but the claim that they were "lifetime lubricated" certainly hasnt lasted. Cheers, Dave. PS I'm sure there was a discussion on this some years back, might be worth doing a search. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I don't know what they were originally lubricated with, but the claim that they were "lifetime lubricated" certainly hasnt lasted. Maybe they didn't expect any of their customers to live this long Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 I have found the previous thread, and can only describe what's on the gears now as 'gunge' - now where's the white spirit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 And I've also looked on the ScaleFour Soc website - forget the white spirit - I've just found some isopropanol! No greasy remains as it'll air dry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I don't know what they were originally lubricated with, but the claim that they were "lifetime lubricated" certainly hasnt lasted. Weren't they originally used in various missiles? So lifetime might have been expected to be somewhat short........ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debs. Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Weren't they originally used in various missiles? So lifetime might have been expected to be somewhat short........ .........and unidirectional! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted November 17, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2013 they were trialled for some missiles not sure if they were ever used but life would be circa 25 years in storage..... so looks like that was a no go from the start! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted November 17, 2013 Author Share Posted November 17, 2013 they were trialled for some missiles not sure if they were ever used but life would be circa 25 years in storage..... so looks like that was a no go from the start! OK, but maybe they tested missiles and didn't store them for 25 years in the back of the wardrobe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 I have never quite understood the prices these seem to persistently reach on ebay just mention a Portescape and folk will double the price of the loco (perhaps simply to salvage the motor and gearbox) They are good ... but surely not THAT good or AFAIC not at that sort of price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 You still pay less for them than the new Comet motor/gearboxes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted November 17, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2013 I have never quite understood the prices these seem to persistently reach on ebay just mention a Portescape and folk will double the price of the loco (perhaps simply to salvage the motor and gearbox) They are good ... but surely not THAT good or AFAIC not at that sort of price. I agree with Kenton. I still use RG4s in my own locos; I have a small stock of them and pick them up when I can. I'm certainly not prepared to pay Ebay sort of prices though. Otherwise, I'm perfectly happy with the excellent performance I get from a Mashima with a HighLevel gearbox. Slaters produce an "RG4 Replacement" package: https://slatersplastikard.com/linePage.php?code=SG4 Definitely a quality piece of kit, but its still about twice the price of a Mashima/Highlevel combination. Cheers, Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Whilst searching in a box I'd forgotten I had I found a couple of unused Portescap motors/gearboxes, an RG4 and a 1219. These must be 25 years old and I thought I'd lost them. They are, of course, ultra stiff and I don't want to put power to them until they have a chance of turning. Has anyone any recommendation how (if) I could bring these back to life? I know their price 25 years ago and a search on eBay says they're fetching 2 1/2 times that today. And secondly, are they really worth it or should I dispose of them and get a High Level equivalent? I could have a use for them, but don't want to play the fool (more than I do anyway) and spend time on them when I could be doing something more useful. If you don't want 'em, I'll have 'em. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theakerr Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 My only comment is beware of some of the older Porterscap motors because they wine. I have about 3 of them and when I get round to it will be selling them because they are so noisy. I have tried the comet "solution" on one of them and whilst it is better it is still a lot noisier than the DJH gearboxes and motors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted November 17, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2013 I've never used a DJH gearbox, are they good? Thanks, Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 My only comment is beware of some of the older Porterscap motors because they wine..... I'm a big fan of wine, but haven't touched a drop for a whole 30 minutes.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I've never used a DJH gearbox, are they good? Thanks, Dave. Shall we say, in a different league. Or at least the old open frame ones are. They may have improved..... but one tends to stick with tried and trusted .... which I guess answers the above question on why Portscape continue to be so popular. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruffalo Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 So just how good are High Level gearboxes? I have a few kit-built locos that I need to convert to DCC so I am prepared to re-wheel and fit new motors and transmissions - most are Romford Bulldog or even XO4 powered but do have old Romford drivers. I have built a Branchlines gearbox that seems ok but it does have a few issues, is the High Level that much better? Should I aim for a standard 40:1 reduction across the board to get a suitable scale speed and sure-footedness with a differential due to the range of driving wheels? Sorry to hijack the OP's thread, this seemed like a good place to ask those questions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Let's start a new thread on 'what ratios for DCC control?' as it is - or can be - different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 is the High Level that much better?Oh yes! The selection of gearbox types is very good - it will be difficult to find one that doesn't fit. The range of ratios is also very good and the 108:1 quite exceptional - if it is a little more difficult to mesh (unsurprisingly). I haven't tried every unit in the range - by a long way - but happy with those I have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theakerr Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I went with the DJH assembled motor and gearboxes a number of years ago based on a comment by the one and only Tony W who had had was exactly the same problem I was having with an A5. He had solved his problem by going back to his favourite, the DJH. I now have 3, all are 50:1 and whilst they have a fairly high current draw they are quiet and very controllable. However, the best bit is that I don't have to do any assembly, I just drop them in. In the fullness of time I can see 2 more replacements coming, one for an old open frame anchorage and the other, you guessed it, a wining Porterscap that I can hear from the other end of the basement 40' away Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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