GWML Electification

[The Stationmaster]

Maybe the cover is to stop it filling up with rain water.

I had assumed that plus acting as protection over the fittings where the bolts go although in many cases the cover is actually held on by the nuts & bolts that will subsequently be used to secure the base of the mast.  A far bigger hazard is probably the back filled holes which are marked by simply shoving a dayglo/yellow painted stick into each corner and leaving a depression or heaped tripping hazard between them.

[Tim Dubya]

Spotted these chaps in Baff today

 

 

I don't think they knew what they were looking for - maybe some wires or stuff...

[Edwin_m]

Surely the wires are in the trough the guy is standing on?  Perhaps surveying the cable route so they know to put the piles somewhere else? 

[Fat Controller]

Surely the wires are in the trough the guy is standing on?  Perhaps surveying the cable route so they know to put the piles somewhere else?

Perhaps looking for the route of a cable between trough and track? Or looking for a non-railway cable or pipe run passing beneath the railway? These aren't always clearly marked, as my sister found out when taking a core sample with a drilling rig, somewhere near Dudley. The gas main was meant to be on the other side of the road.

[Zomboid]

There's no reason to think (from that image alone) that what they were up to has anything to do with electrification. Could have been, of course, but there's loads of other stuff that they could have been doing.

[Titan]

It is difficult to tell what they are surveying, if it was for a buried cable they would probably have a CAT scanner (which in this case means Cable Avoidance Tool!) But even they only tend to work when there is current flowing, for example I had to ask a Station Manager to turn the lights on during the day to ensure we could detect the position of the lighting cables running through the platform.

 

It also does tend to look like the sort of surveying equipment that P-way would normally use, OLE surveys normally require just measuring from the running edge of the rail, for which a hand held laser or even a good old tape measure suffices. It is also good practice to use GPS to measure the exact location of a pile, as this can give accurate xyz coordinates which is useful for getting the correct ground level as well as horizontal position. All that is is a GPS receiver mounted on a stick, programmed to give the exact position of the end of the stick. It is very accurate, provided that the operator does not push it too far in to soft ground reducing the ground level by a few centimetres!

 

However by now all survey work really ought to have been 100% complete. It gets a lot more difficult to change the design to suit once half the piles are already in...

[Tim Dubya]

Probably surveying for the singling of the GWML, thereby enabling the PW to go smack bang in the centre of the formation, thus avoiding any cabling and being able to pile happily away as they please (and saving the taxpayer another couple of billion!).

 

Edited December 3, 2015 by Tim Dubya

[The Stationmaster]

Probably surveying for the singling of the GWML, thereby enabling the PW to go smack bang in the centre of the formation, thus avoiding any cabling and being able to pile happily away as they please (and saving the taxpayer another couple of billion!).

 

Alas I think all the proposals I developed for that back in the 1980s have long since been deposited in the dustbin of history (they were mainly 'political' - with a very big 'P' proposals anyway) although my paper proposing conversion to broad gauge did at least get discussed at a high level planning meeting (which just happened to take place on 01 April).

[Captain Kernow]

There's to be some track renewals in that area next year, quite probably to do with that.

[black and decker boy]

The man on the right is holding the prism on the railhead, the central man on the left is manning the survey station. the other 4 are lookout \ COSS type people.

 

I suspect they are surveying the track so they get the OHLE at the right height, the piles are presumably already driven and covered by the regular square covers in the cess with a separate array of piles for the loop \ siding \ headshunt (hence the double number of square covers staggered left and right of the 6ft). They could also be existing drainage chambers \ covers?

Edited December 3, 2015 by black and decker boy

[Titan]

The man on the right is holding the prism on the railhead, the central man on the left is manning the survey station. the other 4 are lookout \ COSS type people.

 

I suspect they are surveying the track so they get the OHLE at the right height, the piles are presumably already driven and covered by the regular square covers in the cess with a separate array of piles for the loop \ siding \ headshunt (hence the double number of square covers staggered left and right of the 6ft). They could also be existing drainage chambers \ covers?

 

There appears to be only one pile in the picture, just behind the man with the survey station. All the other covers do indeed seem to be over drainage chambers. I would say the other 3 people are two lookouts and a COSS.

[phil-b259]

NR is now spending some serious money for finding the old wiring looms, They could have spend the same amount on rewiring the lot in a known (and safe) location, then disconnect the old wiring looms and ripping them up. This would make room for the piling of the OHE masts and any wiring remains left would be out of use anyway   But I'm sure that's way to simplistic for a complex organisation as NR

 

Its nothing to do with being simplistic as you put it and everything to do with a severe lack of signal designers, installers and testers.

 

Far too many people seem to think signalling installations are no different to wiring up a domestic house, where as in reality the post 1987 requirements (Clapham Junction crash), plus the sheer complexity of signalling (its not simply a bunch of traffic lights controlled by a microcontroller) means it takes years to design install then commission a scheme.

 

On the GWML we thus have a situation where 'waiting' for the new signalling to be completely installed and commissioned before starting any OHLE works is totally impractical if you want electrification to happen within a reasonably sensible timeframe.

 

I have said it before and I will say it again, much of the problems NR is encountering today can clearly be traced back to Privatisation and the way many years of hard earned technical know-how and the extensive local knowledge BR possessed was sacrificed in the process of smashing BR up into lots of tiny bits, compounded by the failure of two decades worth of Governments to show any enthusiasm for further electrification. NR (or to be precise many good and dedicated people who are no doubt as upset / frustrated as the rest of us with the way things have turned out) are now having to re-learn all that lost experience while at the same time coping with far more interference from Whitehall than BR ever had  (thanks to the boards relative success in keeping politicians away from engineering or detailed financial matters). As such mistakes, oversights, screwups and '"If only they had asked xxx" are not surprising - the main thing is NR learn from them so later stages of the GWML scheme and indeed schemes like the MML start from a much sounder base.

Edited December 3, 2015 by phil-b259

[Southernman46]

Spotted these chaps in Baff today

 

Cant Find It.jpg

 

I don't think they knew what they were looking for - maybe some wires or stuff...

They're surveying the track position as part of the monitoring regime following installation of the undertrack crossing just behind them (where the lookout is standing)

[lmsforever]

This is a railway?

[96701]

he main concern for me is the lookout appears to be looking at a catchpit, not the open railway. Mind you, they seem to be sufficiently spread out to be working within a line block, so maybe the lookout is only employed when getting to / from the access point.

[phil-b259]

he main concern for me is the lookout appears to be looking at a catchpit, not the open railway. Mind you, they seem to be sufficiently spread out to be working within a line block, so maybe the lookout is only employed when getting to / from the access point.

 

There are actually two lookouts in the picture, the one furthest away from the camera appears to be looking for trains (remember a photo is static - if looking both ways you need to be able to do so every 5 seconds at a minimum), while the nearer one does indeed appear to be looking at / pointing at a catch pit.

 

What this says to me it is a mobile work site and two lookouts have been provided to cope with the fact some areas require two lookouts to achieve sufficient sighting while in others a single suffices. If you are doing such a 'walkthrough' then its quite possible you will need to use both at times  - hence the need for two fully equipped lookouts although at this particular location one is spare.

 

However can I please caution people about being too judgemental or jumping to conclusions about what they see in the picture as this may not tell the full story as to what is going on in respect of staff safety.

Edited December 3, 2015 by phil-b259

[Tim Dubya]

I would just like to add that all my comments are meant in jest and nothing else.

 

PS:  If my employer could fit me with GPS and clothe me in hi-viz they'd be a lot happier! (and they would probably have noticed that I was taking photos from Brougham Hayes bridge and not at work).

 

Up the workers! 

[phil-b259]

I would just like to add that all my comments are meant in jest and nothing else.

 

PS:  If my employer could fit me with GPS and clothe me in hi-viz they'd be a lot happier! (and they would probably have noticed that I was taking photos from Brougham Hayes bridge and not at work).

 

Up the workers! 

 

Oh, don't get me wrong I did note the various smiley faces in your post, and understood the meaning of them

 

However I do feel its important to be careful not to undermine / belittle those within the industry who have joined it since privatisation (be that part way through the Railtrack + IMC era like myself, or who went straight into NR) but are caught up in the current GWML mess

 

As the saying goes, old sins cast long shadows....

Edited December 3, 2015 by phil-b259

[jjb1970]

I suspect this will not be a popular opinion but following the last couple of issues of Modern Railways I do not believe that GWML electrification should have been unpaused until a proper project recovery plan was in place. I admit we have to be careful about being too believing of what we read, but people like Roger Ford and Ian Walmsley are not technically illiterate half wits who just regurgitate any old guff. Even if we apply an adjustment to offset possible exaggeration it still feels like it has been a monumentally badly managed program that has dropped a few major klangers on basic stuff. The costs are becoming ridiculous and it is just not tenable to continue with over spends and delays of this magnitude unless there is confidence that a recovery plan will bring things back down. I do not hold the current Railtrack CEO responsible for the initial foul ups, what I am unimpressed with is the seeming acceptance that things are what they are. This is yet another example of the lesson we need to learn over and over again that money spent up front long before a shovel goes anywhere near the ground is not money wasted but an investment. NR should have been aware of some of the project risks from the outset and it does appear that some of the failings were just down to not being able to do the basics.

[96701]

I suspect this will not be a popular opinion but following the last couple of issues of Modern Railways I do not believe that GWML electrification should have been unpaused until a proper project recovery plan was in place. I admit we have to be careful about being too believing of what we read, but people like Roger Ford and Ian Walmsley are not technically illiterate half wits who just regurgitate any old guff. Even if we apply an adjustment to offset possible exaggeration it still feels like it has been a monumentally badly managed program that has dropped a few major klangers on basic stuff. The costs are becoming ridiculous and it is just not tenable to continue with over spends and delays of this magnitude unless there is confidence that a recovery plan will bring things back down. I do not hold the current Railtrack CEO responsible for the initial foul ups, what I am unimpressed with is the seeming acceptance that things are what they are. This is yet another example of the lesson we need to learn over and over again that money spent up front long before a shovel goes anywhere near the ground is not money wasted but an investment. NR should have been aware of some of the project risks from the outset and it does appear that some of the failings were just down to not being able to do the basics.

I'm glad you don't hold the current Railtrack CEO responsible. Do keep up! Having lost time on the project and already overspent, how can anybody hope to gain either?

[jjb1970]

My mistake on Railtrack. There are plenty of examples of projects that have derailed early on and then been brought back under control if a suitable project recovery plan is put in place.

[black and decker boy]

I suspect this will not be a popular opinion but following the last couple of issues of Modern Railways I do not believe that GWML electrification should have been unpaused until a proper project recovery plan was in place. I admit we have to be careful about being too believing of what we read, but people like Roger Ford and Ian Walmsley are not technically illiterate half wits who just regurgitate any old guff. Even if we apply an adjustment to offset possible exaggeration it still feels like it has been a monumentally badly managed program that has dropped a few major klangers on basic stuff. The costs are becoming ridiculous and it is just not tenable to continue with over spends and delays of this magnitude unless there is confidence that a recovery plan will bring things back down. I do not hold the current Railtrack CEO responsible for the initial foul ups, what I am unimpressed with is the seeming acceptance that things are what they are. This is yet another example of the lesson we need to learn over and over again that money spent up front long before a shovel goes anywhere near the ground is not money wasted but an investment. NR should have been aware of some of the project risks from the outset and it does appear that some of the failings were just down to not being able to do the basics.

When the first section was to open this month and is no where near ready and with many sections not really even started, it cannot be brought back on track and to even try would swallow significantly more than the £2.8bn currently forecast. The best option now is to stabilise the ship and reset the objectives and targets.

 

As for it being 'unpaused too early' the GWML was never paused, that was reserved for TPE and MML only.

[black and decker boy]

Its nothing to do with being simplistic as you put it and everything to do with a severe lack of signal designers, installers and testers.

The same applies to traffic signal and data engineers on our highways networks. These too often involve complex wiring (copper and fibre), bespoke hardware & software. Like railways there are not a lot of skilled people available to design and install the kit with the technology firms (often the same that do railway signaling) constantly cutting back, reorganising and reducing capacity.

 

Off / on spending in this market seems to work against training and recruitment, as capacity goes down, prices go up....

Edited December 3, 2015 by black and decker boy

[jjb1970]

Whilst it is unlikely that any project recovery plan would get the project back onto its original budget and schedule it should be possible to develop a plan to establish a new budget and schedule which reduces the over runs and delivers value for money. As things are it just feels like things are out of control along with an attitude that these things happen and that it is a difficult and big project so you have to expect things to go wrong.

[Titan]

Unfortunately many of the mistakes cannot be unmade, and some of the full effects have yet to be felt.