GWML Electification

[Fat Controller]

Seriously though, in Victorian times it really was. Hence pubs on every street corner in the cities and large industrial towns.

Mainly because the beer had been made with water that had been boiled. https://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow/broadstreetpump.html is an account of how the link was established between water-supply and disease.

[RJS1977]

Reading's leading 'grab a headline' Councillor strikes again.

 

Er excuse me Mr Page but what about the double decker 'bus route which you solemnly promised more than 3 years ago would be running along Cow Lane 'in the near future when the bridge and road works are complete'?  

 

And presumably the inhabitants of what housing remains in Cardiff Road are quite happy living in a road with considerable commercial traffic and businesses over much of its length?  All the railway is doing is continuing its business on its land which Cardiff Road backs onto although that business is now stabling trains instead of an engineering depot with road vehicles coming and going (albeit not along Cardiff Road) at all hours of the day & night.

 

That said, I live in Caversham and hear the trains coming and going from the depot in the small hours.

[corneliuslundie]

There appears however to be little correlation between house building and creation of associated facilities such as shops, doctors' surgeries, hospitals etc etc, or local jobs, which means ever more people on the roads ever more of the time. And this at a time when we are supposed to be reducing our dependence on oil based fuels (which of course bi-mode trains don't use!).

Actually I have a theory that Western civilisation is doomed anyway and will go the way of the Assyrians, Medes & Persians, Greeks, Romans, etc  etc, so everything will sort itself out with a collapse back to the iron age.

Jonathan

[black and decker boy]

There appears however to be little correlation between house building and creation of associated facilities such as shops, doctors' surgeries, hospitals etc etc, or local jobs, which means ever more people on the roads ever more of the time. And this at a time when we are supposed to be reducing our dependence on oil based fuels (which of course bi-mode trains don't use!).

Actually I have a theory that Western civilisation is doomed anyway and will go the way of the Assyrians, Medes & Persians, Greeks, Romans, etc etc, so everything will sort itself out with a collapse back to the iron age.

Jonathan

It depends how proactive the local council & population are in the planning of new developments.

 

I have personally been involved with a major scheme (3500 homes) in Wokingham/South Reading where there was no local engagement at planning stage so the development is providing the absolute minimum infrastructure it needs to comply with legislation. Planning was passed on appeal as WBC refused to make a decision.

 

Locally to me, a 2500 home town extension is being planned. The council are writing their local plan around it and specifying the infrastructure that has to be funded From the houses such as new relief road, town centre enhancements, new schools & NHS facilities, new shops & business zone, new cycle ways and new bus routes.

 

I am also working on a major new town near rugby (6500 houses). That includes several new roads, a new primary school opens next year with a secondary school coming in a few years as the population grows.

 

All developments over a set size have to contribute financially for infrastructure improvements (known as section 106 contributions and can also have to contribute to CIL which is the community infrastructure levy). It is for local councils to identify projects for these funds to provide. From personal experience Local councils are quite bad at this.

 

Just remember though that all of this infrastructure money comes from the sale of the houses (ie is added to the sale price). On the Wokingham project, each of the 3500 houses had a surcharge of just under £30,000 added to pay for the infrastructure. No public money is used.

Edited November 18, 2017 by black and decker boy

[jonny777]

Although if you believe this article, the priorities for councils seem not to be investment in new homes for the population. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/17/councils-commercial-property-spend-council-housing-housebuilding

 

 

This quote seems rather extreme - "Coventry city council last month decided to buy the Coombe Abbey country house hotel in a multi-million pound deal that prompted local protests that it was doing so while making wider cuts. The council has no council housing despite facing rising homelessness..."

 

(My emphasis in italics). 

[62613]

"Us "poor people here up north" have billions of gallons of water within our beautiful scenery (and our electric trains run under old bridges !!)."

 

Yes, and most of the water goes to England with no recompense for the locals.

Mind you, it could have been worse. I couple of years ago I picked up a little book in a bookshop in Llandrindod Wells. It described a scheme dreamed up by London County Council which would have involved flooding vast areas of what is now Powys and moving the population out of almost all the rest so as to avoid the water being polluted. It was only stopped by a Royal Commission which said they should take water from the Thames instead. So forget about flooding a bit of Oxfordshire. Why not flood Beds, Bucks, Oxon and Berks completely? I'm sure there would be no objections.

Jonathan

Think he meant places like Thirlmere, Haweswater and Kielder, all of which are in England and serve English towns and cities

[corneliuslundie]

Thanks 62613. I realised where he meant when I saw the reference to electric trains. We don't have any in Wales. However, in the late 19^th and early 20^th centuries the planners of these water schemes gave very little thought to the effects on the locality or the locals, I am afraid. That book I referred to about the London County Council scheme illustrates that all too well.

And thanks to black and decker boy for a very interesting post. I am afraid that my experience of local authority planners has not been very positive. When I lived in Harpenden, Hertfordshire County Council wanted to close one of the secondary schools, claiming that demand was dropping. The planners had definitely never spoken to the local midwives. Anyway the closure was fought and defeated and sure enough larger numbers of children were almost immediately entering the local primary schools, and within a few years had reached the secondary schools. Mind you this was a local authority which ran an “experimental” recycling scheme for what seemed like decades – crazy things like cardboard being collected in one place but not paper, and the opposite a few miles away.

Now I am not saying I could do any better, and these days I am aware that local authorities are starved of money (though I am not confident that they always spend what they have well), but this was some years ago in one of the most prosperous parts of the country.

Anyway, time methinks to get back to the GW electrification, if there has been any progress away from a certain small town in the Vale (no, I don't mean Pendon).

Jonathan

[96701]

Aren't we getting a little off topic? I'd forgotten that I'd dropped into GWML Electification (sic) thread.

[The Stationmaster]

 

Anyway, time methinks to get back to the GW electrification, if there has been any progress away from a certain small town in the Vale (no, I don't mean Pendon).

Jonathan

 

Actually your final comment was rather appropriate in a strangely coincidental sort of way.  Visiting Pendon earlier today reminded me that slap bang in the middle foreground of the layout there is a superb model of the Steventon overbridge - with all three arches probably more clearly visible than they are on the real one and carrying a narrow road.

 

So no need to worry about demolishing the real one as its original form has been beautifully captured, and is very clearly presented in miniature and will no doubt live on in that form for as long as the Pendon Museum trust lives on.

[caradoc]

Perhaps Network Rail could use Pendon's version to practice the arch-raising technique ?

[APOLLO]

I'm all for preserving our heritage - but when a railway is electrified & modernised some of it just has to go. All those level crossings need to be got rid of also - yes it'l be costly. Just before the Pendolino's came on the WCML a pedestrian foot crossing beside my house was replaced with a footbridge, at no small cost. 

 

Brit15

[Mike Storey]

Although if you believe this article, the priorities for councils seem not to be investment in new homes for the population. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/17/councils-commercial-property-spend-council-housing-housebuilding

 

 

This quote seems rather extreme - "Coventry city council last month decided to buy the Coombe Abbey country house hotel in a multi-million pound deal that prompted local protests that it was doing so while making wider cuts. The council has no council housing despite facing rising homelessness..."

 

(My emphasis in italics). 

 

If you read further, and into some background, it is currently the only legal way for councils to raise the funds necessary to make up the shortfall on central government funding for public services, unless they can also reap the benefit of Section 106, which further adds to the cost of homes, as described above. Add to that the current ban on borrowing against present housing stock to enable councils to build more homes, then you have a perfect storm. Don't blame councils for ridiculous Westminster rules. Instead, write to your MP to advocate a change of the rules in the forthcoming budget.

 

In case that is too political (and it is not party political, because Labour never changed the rules), then think about GWML upgrade and further electrification schemes in this way. Instead of making NR an arm's length, stand-alone company, along the lines of DBAG (who are state owned in Germany but have full ability to borrow commercially, all within EU rules), this government has chosen to keep NR close and has therefore fallen foul of incorporating its total debt into the PSBR. So NR is neither responsible for its inefficiency (where proven, and in many cases it is actually far more efficient than it is given credit), nor is it able to fund its way out of that, because it is subject to short term Treasury (or prevailing governing party) desires.

 

You can argue the benefits/failures between Friedman and Keynsian economics until the cows come home, but under the current regime, the sub-optimal result of railway modernisation and expansion, is much the same as that of social housing policy. Railway schemes however, do not tent to lead to social discontent......

[Northroader]

There’s still no wires up on platform 2 at Paddington. Heading through Slough, I noticed that the curve out of the station on the Windsor branch is fully wired up. Is the branch being done? I hadn’t picked that up. So far on my trips I haven’t got a ride in on an 800,although I’ve seen them in circulation. There was a pair at Reading heading east for London, what I found interesting was there were no pans up.

Enjoy the HSTs while I can, I suppose. It looks as if about all the masts are up as far as Swindon station now from the east. There’s brackets and stuff east of Stratton ( I’ve had intensive training from my son on the nuances of the word “stuff”) and earth cable from east of Bourton. Catenary wire up to about two miles west of Uffington, with a span or two missing in the Uffington area.

[black and decker boy]

Electric still only Paddington to Maidenhead as far as I know, extends to Didcot in December I think.

 

No Thames Valley branches get wired, diesel powered turbos to continue long term.

[Zomboid]

I imagine Paddington platform 2 will be wired at Christmas, when the station is closed for a week.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Electric still only Paddington to Maidenhead as far as I know, extends to Didcot in December I think.

 

 

I imagine Paddington platform 2 will be wired at Christmas, when the station is closed for a week.

 

 

I think the new timetable and electric trains to Didcot - starts 2nd January.

 

 

.

[RJS1977]

Electric still only Paddington to Maidenhead as far as I know, extends to Didcot in December I think.

 

No Thames Valley branches get wired, diesel powered turbos to continue long term.

 

Yes, some horrible timetabling at Reading/Maidenhead last weekend.

 

Owing to the reduction of fast services east of Reading due to Crossrail work, and subsequent crowding of the remaining services, I opted to catch a stopper advertised as 'Change at Maidenhead'. Said train sat in Reading for at least 15 minutes awaiting its booked departure time, then another 15 minute wait at Maidenhead for the connection. Had it not waited so long at Reading, it could have connected into an earlier service at Maidenhead.

[nigel newling]

With many of the 165/166 turbos being retained to service the London branches, can we expect to see the 158s being restored as 2-car sets and run as 4 car trains to meet the increasing demand here in the Bristol area?

[The Stationmaster]

With many of the 165/166 turbos being retained to service the London branches, can we expect to see the 158s being restored as 2-car sets and run as 4 car trains to meet the increasing demand here in the Bristol area?

 

I doubt there are many extra Turbos being retained at Reading although short term there will be because of Newbury and Oxford lagging behind planned electrification dates.  Longer term (if/when the wires reach Oxford) the only additional sets retained at Reading compared with the original plan will amount to one each for the Thames Valley branches (so + 2 on the original plan) and that might to some extent be balanced by use of 800s vice Turbos on some Bedwyn workings although whatever was planned for Basingstoke might also have an impact.  The last I heard from GWR - at a local usergroup meeting - was that all the 166s are going to Bristol although I would have thought they'd be better for the Reading Gatwick service than 165s

 

I know the mix of what is heading west will also change as our branch has now been promised a 3 car set instead of the current 2 car from January when we lose our through trains to Paddington.

 

The wiring 'round the corner' towards the branch at Slough is presumably there for emergency run off but might also allow a short train to reverse. (however there is no such provision at Reading New Jcn so maybe it is intended for occasional reversals?).  The run-off provision for the Down Relief at Twyford appears to have been cancelled - presumably because there are unlikely to be many (any?) electric trains running down the Up Relief.

Edited November 23, 2017 by The Stationmaster

[The Stationmaster]

Yes, some horrible timetabling at Reading/Maidenhead last weekend.

 

Owing to the reduction of fast services east of Reading due to Crossrail work, and subsequent crowding of the remaining services, I opted to catch a stopper advertised as 'Change at Maidenhead'. Said train sat in Reading for at least 15 minutes awaiting its booked departure time, then another 15 minute wait at Maidenhead for the connection. Had it not waited so long at Reading, it could have connected into an earlier service at Maidenhead.

I don't know who is doing GWR's two-track public timetables but whoever they are they aren't very good at it if the shambles of our branch connections is any guide.  I have twice complained to GWR (and got 'Reply No. 27B' in response from their complaint handling 'people') about the way our branch connections have not been properly retimed to connect with revised mainline services (they had been retimed, but still didn't make connections!).  i also drew to their attention (which the complaints dept probably didn't understand) that their poor timetabling also didn't correspond with their Driver diagramming - you could hardly say vice-versa as the diagrammer had no doubt expected a timetable which would be sensibly timed when given the outline proposal.

[corneliuslundie]

The (proper) GWR would have made sure that the electrification got to Windsor even if nothing else was completed - and possible a nice new electric Royal train. Waterloo must be kept in its place.

Jonathan

Of course, perhaps that is the secret plan and that is why the wires turn the corner! Charles would approve.

[Ron Ron Ron]

....Charles would approve.

 

 

Are you sure he wouldn't label the GWML OHLE as a  (big ears voice on....) "monstrous carbuncle" ?

 

 

.

[RJS1977]

Given that there are proposals to close both Windsor stations and build a new line connecting the two branches, maybe not electrifying the Windsor branch at the present time is a good thing.

[dibber25]

Given that there are proposals to close both Windsor stations and build a new line connecting the two branches, maybe not electrifying the Windsor branch at the present time is a good thing.

 

I always thought that was an absurd idea. You'd need dual power (3rd rail plus diesel or third rail plus 25kV which is at least doable now but wasn't when the scheme was first mooted) and there's also a considerable difference in elevation between the track at Riverside and that at Central. It sounded like it was to give Maidenhead residents a direct route to Waterloo, so Windsor residents got all the disruption and Maidenhead got all the benefits, which was always an issue when I lived in the 'Royal Borough of New Windsor' and Maidenhead was first thrust into the fold. (CJL)

[Oakydoke]

Given that there are proposals to close both Windsor stations and build a new line connecting the two branches, maybe not electrifying the Windsor branch at the present time is a good thing.

There is no official proposal.

That scheme is the product of a couple of people with a set of crayons and a warped sense of reality.

Unfortunately, they managed to dupe a couple of interested parties, but the whole idea remains a fantasy.