GWML Electification

[rodent279]

1 minute ago, Mike_Walker said:

Thankfully, the people have now seen through them.

You reckon?

Personally I don't hold out much hope, but we'll see.

[lmsforever]

Maybe we should wait and see what the other parties are going to offer but dont hold your breath transport is at the bottom of their lists the NHS is number one and will always be.

[The Stationmaster]

On 05/10/2023 at 15:28, lmsforever said:

Maybe we should wait and see what the other parties are going to offer but dont hold your breath transport is at the bottom of their lists the NHS is number one and will always be.

That's what they would like us to think - the truth is rather different (No.1 is MPs' salaries, pensions, and redundancy pay)

[rodent279]

38 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

That's what they would like us to think - the truth is rather different (No.1 is MPs' salaries, pensions, and redundancy pay)

No. 1 is getting elected. Nothing else comes close.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

If (and it's a big IF) we believe HM Government, then electrification of this stretch might be a little closer to fruition. Sydney Gardens, Bath, in today's warm October sunshine,

[Artless Bodger]

Good to see a decent fence along the edge of the gardens, last time I visited, the path was inaccesible, fenced off with a tatty wooden paling fence.

 

Given the trains will not be travelling at high speed here, presumably catenary supports could be much less obtrusive than elesewhere on the GWML?

[Mike_Walker]

9 hours ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

If (and it's a big IF) we believe HM Government, then electrification of this stretch might be a little closer to fruition. Sydney Gardens, Bath, in today's warm October sunshine,

Sadly, it had disappeared when the "official" Government document was published on Thursday.  To be fair, on Wednesday they did say "could be" rather than "will be".

[jjb1970]

On 05/10/2023 at 22:25, rodent279 said:

You reckon?

Personally I don't hold out much hope, but we'll see.

 

I think the biggest problem facing Britain (and much of the western world) is a growing lack of confidence in the political establishment which leads to complete disengagement because people decide they're all awful or perhaps more worryingly turn to alternative voices. The response of political establishments to a certain referendum, an orange man, rise of fringe parties in many countries is to blame voters rather than to look in a mirror and recognise their own failure. I can't see it ending well, society is becoming more polarised and leaders (as opposed to careerist politicians in it to climb the pole) are as rare as rocking horse turds.

Edited October 7, 2023 by jjb1970

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Oh, didn't know that the DfT changed their minds. What a surprise!

If/possibly/maybe/fat chance/when hell freezes over/when pigs fly (Choose your own phrase) this stretch ever gets done, I think the ornate overbridges would be the main problem, rather than the catenary itself. Imagine putting those horrid high metal abutments here...

Yesterday I overheard someone as they walked up to one of the overbridges. "I wasn't expecting that", they exclaimed, as they saw the railway below. Presumably, they were expecting a river or other water feature.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

The new fencing at Sydney Gardens looks the part, is well made and has a certain quality about it. 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

The "orange man" and his acolytes (and we're not talking about Northen Ireland here) are most worrying. A pity that US citizens have such a poor choice of leadership, from whichever party. Can they not pass the baton to a younger generation?

 

Anyway, back to railways from a more elegant age...

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

Sadly, it had disappeared when the "official" Government document was published on Thursday.  To be fair, on Wednesday they did say "could be" rather than "will be".

Which comes as no surprise whatsoever.  while the politicos and their minions try desperately to get us to convert us to a 100% electric future the ones in power are consistently singularly remiss in doing teh same for our railway network.  No wonder people don't trust the 'do as I say, not as I do' attitude of the majority of our politicos

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Oh, didn't know that the DfT changed their minds. What a surprise!

If/possibly/maybe/fat chance/when hell freezes over/when pigs fly (Choose your own phrase) this stretch ever gets done, I think the ornate overbridges would be the main problem, rather than the catenary itself. Imagine putting those horrid high metal abutments here...

Yesterday I overheard someone as they walked up to one of the overbridges. "I wasn't expecting that", they exclaimed, as they saw the railway below. Presumably, they were expecting a river or other water feature.

I think it was all designed but - obviously - never installed.  Apparently the Govt of the day weren't keen on electric trains although they wanted us to buy electric cars. (I remember when the ovt of the day wanted us to buy diesel cars - so I did (and I liked it very much; but I'm not falling for their ideas again.)

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I've just been given a copy of the final draft of the GW electrification from this week's DfT Policy Paper (I obviously can't divulge my sources).
I'm led to believe that the Secretary of State was really impressed by the efforts of the work experience student in preparing this, and they will now be offered a safe Tory seat at the next election.

[rodent279]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

leaders................are as rare as rocking horse turds.

It takes two to tango. Followers have to own their part.

Having many followers does not make one a "good" leader.

[jjb1970]

7 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

It takes two to tango. Followers have to own their part.

Having many followers does not make one a "good" leader.

 

I was thinking more of a political leader with a vision, able to inspire people and who can give people a reason to offer their support. That doesn't necessarily result in anything good, history is full of evil people who were extremely effective and inspirational leaders, but currently Britain and most of the western world seems to be saddled with a lot of banal nothingness in terms of political leadership. It's not just Britain, I think Europe is badly missing Angele Merkel, I didn't especially agree with her on many things but she could knock heads together and make things happen.

[37114]

Controversial but I am not convinced there is a valid argument for electrification into Temple Meads... If you look ahead, over the next 5 to 10 years (which is realistically the earliest the electrification will be completed) battery technology will have advanced to the point that the IET diesel engines could be replaced by batteries charged by the existing overhead/static charging while stabled. I guess a similar argument for Oxford as well. 

[The Stationmaster]

42 minutes ago, 37114 said:

Controversial but I am not convinced there is a valid argument for electrification into Temple Meads... If you look ahead, over the next 5 to 10 years (which is realistically the earliest the electrification will be completed) battery technology will have advanced to the point that the IET diesel engines could be replaced by batteries charged by the existing overhead/static charging while stabled. I guess a similar argument for Oxford as well. 

But will the batteries get a train to Worcester or Penzance and back at normal running sppeds.. You need a pretty incredible battery capacity to get from Newbury to Penzance and back including all the gradients in between.

 

Don't forget the rather inconvenient fact that these sets are used relatively indiscriminately so a 5 car set might be going to Oxford on Monday and Tuesday, maybe Worcester or Cardiff on Wednesday and Thursday and then Penzance on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

[billbedford]

2 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

I was thinking more of a political leader with a vision, able to inspire people and who can give people a reason to offer their support. That doesn't necessarily result in anything good, history is full of evil people who were extremely effective and inspirational leaders, but currently Britain and most of the western world seems to be saddled with a lot of banal nothingness in terms of political leadership. It's not just Britain,

 

That was explained by Mark Blyth as 'After the Reagan/Thatcher era anyone wanting to change the world went into finance rather than politics'

[rodent279]

2 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

I was thinking more of a political leader with a vision, able to inspire people and who can give people a reason to offer their support.

But do we trust people like that anymore?

[billbedford]

3 hours ago, rodent279 said:

But do we trust people like that anymore?

 

I think you will find that earning people's trust and being able to inspire people enough to give them a reason to offer their support is much the same. 

[37114]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

But will the batteries get a train to Worcester or Penzance and back at normal running sppeds.. You need a pretty incredible battery capacity to get from Newbury to Penzance and back including all the gradients in between.

 

Don't forget the rather inconvenient fact that these sets are used relatively indiscriminately so a 5 car set might be going to Oxford on Monday and Tuesday, maybe Worcester or Cardiff on Wednesday and Thursday and then Penzance on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

My point was more that some of the infrastructure maybe different to support an OHLE plus battery solution I.e fast charging at stations, short overhead where it can be erected easily and overnight charging on depots. The indiscriminate routing actually helps as you can rotate trains around to ensure enough charge for the longer routes.

 

[Davexoc]

8 hours ago, 37114 said:

Controversial but I am not convinced there is a valid argument for electrification into Temple Meads... If you look ahead, over the next 5 to 10 years (which is realistically the earliest the electrification will be completed) battery technology will have advanced to the point that the IET diesel engines could be replaced by batteries charged by the existing overhead/static charging while stabled. I guess a similar argument for Oxford as well. 

 

We couldn't get a decent sized factory off the ground to make automotive batteries in this country, so I fear something to power trains and like is a pipe dream. In 10 years time they'll probably look at the IET and decide they are too near to end of life to spend that much to modify them anyway....

[Siberian Snooper]

All this battery technology is wonderful until it catches fire and can't be put out. I overheard a conversation about batteries and them catching fire, several fire departments are investing in water tanks and Hiabs because they can't deal with it any other way, pick the vehicle up and dunk it. I have no idea how you manage to get strops under the vehicle to lift it.

 

I wouldn't want to be on a train where a battery caught fire, there's no where to go, at least until the train comes to a stop.

 

Our local council are urging us not to put batteries in the bins because they have had one or two catch fire, when they compress the rubbish it damages the battery casing and up it goes.

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, 37114 said:

My point was more that some of the infrastructure maybe different to support an OHLE plus battery solution I.e fast charging at stations, short overhead where it can be erected easily and overnight charging on depots. The indiscriminate routing actually helps as you can rotate trains around to ensure enough charge for the longer routes.

 

But rotating trains in that fashion actually requires them to work perfectly on cyclic diagrams.  Judging by what turns up on many IET worked  trains I've seen or travelled on that is far beyond a pious hope and more in the realms of a continuously repeating miracle.