Day Ranger and Rover Tickets

[Chris116]

In late December 2009 the National Rail web site was changed. Most of the changes seem to have been for the best and I have let them know that I think they have mangaged to improve it.

 

Sadly Day Ranger and Rover tickets no longer show up as they should. If you go to a TOC Special Offer section the basic details are shown but there are no maps or price details. If you then click on the "Rovers and Rangers" option you get an alphabetical choice but none of them work at all.

 

I e-mailed National Rail Enquiries and on 24-12-09 received a very nice reply saying that they were pleased with my favourable comments with regards to most of the new site and that they would look into the Ranger and Rovers problem.

 

No change has been seen since then and upon phoning Enquries on 08457 484950 I was told that they had no information on such tickets and the guy very nearly questioned my sanity for thinking such tickets existed!

 

Is this a plot to stop people buying them and then stop slling them because "no one is interested in them"?????

 

It is very hard to buy the Ranger tickets in many places, as the booking offices don't know how to issue them in many cases (Cardiff Central are a notable exception with the Valley Lines Day Ranger) and if you don't have printed proof that they exist you can get some real hassle buying the Rangers.

 

Chris

[jonhall]

In late December 2009 the National Rail web site was changed. Most of the changes seem to have been for the best and I have let them know that I think they have mangaged to improve it.

 

Sadly Day Ranger and Rover tickets no longer show up as they should. If you go to a TOC Special Offer section the basic details are shown but there are no maps or price details. If you then click on the "Rovers and Rangers" option you get an alphabetical choice but none of them work at all.

 

I e-mailed National Rail Enquiries and on 24-12-09 received a very nice reply saying that they were pleased with my favourable comments with regards to most of the new site and that they would look into the Ranger and Rovers problem.

 

No change has been seen since then and upon phoning Enquries on 08457 484950 I was told that they had no information on such tickets and the guy very nearly questioned my sanity for thinking such tickets existed!

 

Is this a plot to stop people buying them and then stop slling them because "no one is interested in them"?????

 

It is very hard to buy the Ranger tickets in many places, as the booking offices don't know how to issue them in many cases (Cardiff Central are a notable exception with the Valley Lines Day Ranger) and if you don't have printed proof that they exist you can get some real hassle buying the Rangers.

 

Chris

Chris,

 

Did you ever get a response? I've had exactly the same problems with the site, and you are right, it's really difficult to convince ticket office staff that such a thing exists without that printout from the NR website.

 

Jon

[Edwin_m]

Office of the Rail Regulator may be interested in this.

[D6975]

Snap

 

I discovered this just before Christmas time too and reported it.

They emailed me back this on 21/12/09:

 

Dear Mr. Stewart

 

 

 

Thank you for your correspondence regarding the recent changes to the National Rail website. I was extremely sorry to learn that you have encountered difficulty in using the website while checking for information on Rovers.

 

 

 

As you will be aware the website has undergone an extensive redesign and we are confident that the new site is much improved by the enhancements made and is now both simplified and more user friendly. However it is of concern to us that this has not been your experience on this occasion. I have logged the particulars of the problem you encountered with our website development team and have asked that they look into and rectify any errors.

 

 

 

Thank you for bringing this issue to our attention, we welcome all customer feedback as it helps us to provide a continually improving service.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

Nelson D??????????????souza

 

Customer Relations Advisor

 

National Rail Enquiries

 

Unfortunately, as the OP points out, nothing seems to have been done about it. The information in the individual TOC areas is sparse to say the least, no prices, area descriptions or maps.

 

 

ps if anyone wants a copy of the Northern rovers leaflet (NE, NW, North Country, Coast and Peaks), I downloaded the .pdf of it just before it disappeared from the website. PM me with your email and I'll send you it.

[DaveF]

If using the National Rail website the Rovers (and other offers) can be found under special offers by train company here:

 

http://www.nationalr.../toc_index.html Edit - but the details are certainly sparse!

 

I usually look at the train operator's own website - certainly Northern Rail has full details of their Rovers at:

 

http://www.northernr...fers/Rail+Rover

 

I assume other companies show the same information.

 

I have never had any problems in finding leaflets for Northern Rail's Rovers at Hexham station ticket office when I go there to visit Townfoot Models whose shop is on the station.

 

David

[Chris116]

Snap

 

I discovered this just before Christmas time too and reported it.

They emailed me back this on 21/12/09:

 

Dear Mr. Stewart

 

 

 

Thank you for your correspondence regarding the recent changes to the National Rail website. I was extremely sorry to learn that you have encountered difficulty in using the website while checking for information on Rovers.

 

 

 

As you will be aware the website has undergone an extensive redesign and we are confident that the new site is much improved by the enhancements made and is now both simplified and more user friendly. However it is of concern to us that this has not been your experience on this occasion. I have logged the particulars of the problem you encountered with our website development team and have asked that they look into and rectify any errors.

 

 

 

Thank you for bringing this issue to our attention, we welcome all customer feedback as it helps us to provide a continually improving service.

 

 

 

Regards,

 

 

 

Nelson D??????????????souza

 

Customer Relations Advisor

 

National Rail Enquiries

 

Unfortunately, as the OP points out, nothing seems to have been done about it. The information in the individual TOC areas is sparse to say the least, no prices, area descriptions or maps.

 

 

ps if anyone wants a copy of the Northern rovers leaflet (NE, NW, North Country, Coast and Peaks), I downloaded the .pdf of it just before it disappeared from the website. PM me with your email and I'll send you it.

 

Ah, so they are sending out that reply in bulk! I have had two copies of it regarding the Day Ranger tickets. The first time I pointed out that most of the details do not show, minor things like price! The second time (three weeks later) I pointed out that if you get to the page for Ranger and Rover tickets then you can not access any of the information.

 

Just looked at the link given in another reply and certainly Northern Rail seem to be one of the best regarding the information given. I have just checked on South West Trains, First Great Western, Chiltern and East Midland Trains and none of their sites even mention Rovers or Rangers except for Chiltern that mention the All Line Rover but say you have to go to the National Rail site for details and prices. The link to the NatRail site failed!!!!

 

Chris

[hairyhandedfool]

Chris,

 

Did you ever get a response? I've had exactly the same problems with the site, and you are right, it's really difficult to convince ticket office staff that such a thing exists without that printout from the NR website.

 

Jon

 

 

That's kind of worrying really, they should have access to the Fares and Retail Publication Portal (FRPP/the Manual - which replaced the National Fares Manual (NFM) a couple of years back), which not only lists every ranger and rover, but also gives prices, maps (where applicable) and issuing instructions. Some require special ticket stock, but generally, any ticket office can issue them.

[John M Upton]

Conductors such as I can sell the seven and fourteen day all line rail rover from our Advantix machines. Most will probably not know how to or have even heard of it mind but it is available through the 'Rover' option under the tertiary menu. Then just put 'All' in the search box and both of them should appear.

 

Railway staff can get their Priv discount on them as well. Having said that in my two years working on the trains so far I have only seen three of these and one of those was mine!!

[Chris116]

I find that at larger stations with two or more windows open you can normally find one ticket seller who knows what they are doing or at least can look it up. Last summer I got a ticket that allowed me on all the branches except Heathrow between Paddington and Reading. Had to go to three windows at Paddington before they believed my printout! Once on the trains I had two guards/inspectors look very carefully at them and one was about to query if it was in order when he saw the printout I had and decided not to say anything!

 

I have not had an All Line Rover since 1975. Back then you could spend the entire time on trains with Sleepers each night but now it is more difficult (and costly) and you would need to book a bed for each night.

 

Chris

[59004 ( was Shedcombe....)]

Hi,

 

Can't say I'm impressed at all by the changes made to the National Rail Enquiries website. It may look more modern and flashy, but that's it, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Functionallity, overview of information and search resuslts ( within a limited overall size ) and speed, neither of these have improved.

 

 

 

With regards to Day Ranger / Rover information :

 

 

Chiltern Railways :

• Only seem to have the Shakespeare Explorer

http://www.chilternr...peare-explorer/

 

First Great Western :

• Devon and Cornwall Rover
• ( Freedom of ) Severn & Solent Rover
• South West Rover ( a combination of the 2 )
• Thames Rover
• several Day Rangers

http://www.firstgrea...nt.aspx?id=2069

 

 

Regards, Michel

[Edwin_m]

In summer 2008 I had to visit all the routes west of Swansea in a 24-hour period (and got paid for it!). The National Rail website listed a day ranger covering most of this area, which could be bought on the train if the first journey started at an unstaffed station. The conductor had never heard of it but obviously took it as a challenge, disappeared into the back cab and returned ten minutes later with the correct ticket and price.

 

Beats me why rangers, rovers and PlusBus aren't available on the online booking sites.

[Chris116]

Beats me why rangers, rovers and PlusBus aren't available on the online booking sites.

I think the answer to that is simple, they don't appear to want too many people to know about them.

 

Chris

[Chris116]

Hi,

 

Can't say I'm impressed at all by the changes made to the National Rail Enquiries website. It may look more modern and flashy, but that's it, as far as I'm concerned.

 

Functionallity, overview of information and search resuslts ( within a limited overall size ) and speed, neither of these have improved.

 

 

 

With regards to Day Ranger / Rover information :

 

 

Chiltern Railways :

• Only seem to have the Shakespeare Explorer

http://www.chilternr...peare-explorer/

 

First Great Western :

• Devon and Cornwall Rover
• ( Freedom of ) Severn & Solent Rover
• South West Rover ( a combination of the 2 )
• Thames Rover
• several Day Rangers

http://www.firstgrea...nt.aspx?id=2069

 

 

Regards, Michel

I think my mistake has been to think of them as Special Offers. On the First Great Western site they are hidden under "Ticket Options". I now suspect that it may be a case of looking in the wrong place, rather than the Rangers not being on the site at all. But this brings us to the point that the web sites do not make it easy to find the Rangers and Rovers, leaving one with the impression that they don't want people to find them!

 

Chris

[melmoth]

This site might be useful:

 

http://www.railrovers.org.uk/

 

Obviously it's not official so some of the information might be out of date, but it appears ok for the rovers I already knew about. Found it while having similar problems to the OP with the 'new improved' National Rail site.

[Chris116]

This site might be useful:

 

http://www.railrovers.org.uk/

 

Obviously it's not official so some of the information might be out of date, but it appears ok for the rovers I already knew about. Found it while having similar problems to the OP with the 'new improved' National Rail site.

Many thanks for the link. It certainly looks to be a good site. I just hope the webmaster can keep it up to date.

 

Chris

[backwaterscotland]

Interesting to contrast the difficulty of finding the rovers on the National Rail site with that of the Scotrail website. On the Scotrail site click "fares and ticket types" and there is a link to the Rover tickets. A search for rover gives the first link as "Flexipass, Rovers and Travelpass tickets"

 

Couldn't be easier. Shame it only applies to the Scottish Rovers

 

Andy B)

[coly]

Most interested in this Chris as we supply the rovers ad rangers detail to the call centres.

 

Can you please let me know when you rang them and I will follow it up.

[Chris116]

Most interested in this Chris as we supply the rovers ad rangers detail to the call centres.

 

Can you please let me know when you rang them and I will follow it up.

I used the web site contact us form on 16 December 2009 to which I received a reply on 24 December 2009. Just before I started this thread I phoned the National Rail Enquiries and told them about the problem and as I said in my original post the person on the other end could get no information up on his system and told me that the tickets could not exist if they were not on his system. I am not certain of the exact date of my call but it would have been a day or two before I started this thread.

 

I checked the National Rail Enquiries site about two hours ago and once you get to the Rovers and Rangers it still gives the alphabetical list but none of the leters when clicked produce any reply. If you go to the tickets via the TOC's and Special Offers you get the names of the tickets with very basic details and nothing about prices or the maps showing the area covered.

 

If you have any influence at all then your help will be greatly appreciated.

 

Chris

[D6975]

The rover site is useful for the maps, but doesn't show the codes.

IIRC the NR website used to show a 4 character code at the end of the info for the rover (something like L127 or similar)

Presumably this code fed into the ticket issuing machine will bring up the ticket.

 

Anyone out there know if this is the case?

Anybody have a list of the codes - unlikely I know, but would assist people trying to buy a rover if they were armed with this info.

[Raffles]

Although each TOC has made it's own choice as to which Ticket Issuing System they use, the issue of a Ranger/Rover is nowhere near as complicated as it use to be. Certainly the system used by FGW, TPE and SWT to name but three, has all the different options under a menu entitled Rovers and Rangers.

 

Long gone are the days when you had to scour the office for the book of barcodes and a pen that would read them...

[hairyhandedfool]

The rover site is useful for the maps, but doesn't show the codes.

IIRC the NR website used to show a 4 character code at the end of the info for the rover (something like L127 or similar)

Presumably this code fed into the ticket issuing machine will bring up the ticket.

 

Anyone out there know if this is the case?

Anybody have a list of the codes - unlikely I know, but would assist people trying to buy a rover if they were armed with this info.

 

 

The four character code is the destination, for a station it is usually four numbers, but for rovers, bus/tram links and leisure attractions it starts with a letter followed by three numbers, more commonly refered to as a National Location Code (NLC). I don't know of a list (ticket machines these days don't really need them), but they could be looked up on a ticket machine. Some Rangers and Rovers may not have a specific code dependant on the issueing instructions, the Tarka Line Day Ranger for example, is issued as an Off-Peak return between Barnstaple and Exeter Central.

[jonhall]

Although each TOC has made it's own choice as to which Ticket Issuing System they use, the issue of a Ranger/Rover is nowhere near as complicated as it use to be. Certainly the system used by FGW, TPE and SWT to name but three, has all the different options under a menu entitled Rovers and Rangers.

 

Long gone are the days when you had to scour the office for the book of barcodes and a pen that would read them...

 

In fairness to SWT ticket offices, I once I've convinced them that such a ticket type exists, and that I don't want a ticket to a specific location, and I've convinced them to phone up their central 'helpdesk' they HAVE been able to issue them (I wonder if mine was the only Freedon of the North West rover they sold last year). The problem is convcincing the ticket office staff that such a thing exists, and getting them to try... It's MUCH easier when you have a printout from the NR website.

 

Jon

[Gwiwer]

IF the various web sites don't work as they should, don't give the information that a reasonable person might expect (product name, pricing, validity etc.) and your approaches to the authorities have only generated auto-reply emails which are not acted upon then try the Minister himself. Lord Adonis used an All-Line Railrover to get an overview of the system shortly after taking on the portfolio. He commented at that time upon how hard it was to locate information about these products. I am sure he would be interested to hear things haven't improved.

 

I don't doubt there is a marked reluctance to sell these products. In an environment where rail operators are attempting to maximise income why would they go out of their way to promote a product which may generate next to nothing for them? The All-Line Railrover would have a proportion of revenue from each ticket sold allocated to each operator but you can understand the reluctance in a hard-nosed commercial environment for, say, Cross Country to sell one when they can also sell you the UK's most expensive ticket which is currently Newquay - Kyle of Lochalsh. The ALR gives much more travel for around half the price!

 

Regional Railrovers also frequently permit travel on multiple operators with none seeming to want to take any initiative in their promotion. The Day Rangers are a very localised promotion and usually only available on the trains of the operator who issues them. They effectively replace a myriad of low-value fares over short distances. The St. Ives branch fare of ??4 (as at May 2009) makes ticketing and promotion simple instead of needing to issue different value tickets between several closely-spaced stations. With trains being very busy in summer it is also a help in getting all the fares collected which must be a challenge when the average journey is barely 10 minutes long and there might be a couple of hundred people on the train!

 

I recently attempted to locate the prices for All Line Railrovers and drew a complete blank. I have passed my concerns and findings on and await replies. There is no excuse for booking office staff to not be aware of products available in their area and how to issue those. There is, in the current environment, no single national promotional brochure that I can find for Railrovers and staff of Southern might therefore legitimately be unaware of a North Western Railrover for example. It should nonetheless be easily possible for them to make appropriate enquiries. Years ago it used to be necessary (in theory at least) to compete a small order form for a regional or All Line Railrover and specify when and where you would collect it. Those ticekts were issued from a central pass office manually and could only be obtained on demand at the largest stations in the country. With electronic ticketing that all passed into history. The last time I obtained an All Line Railrover it was a Priv 14-day version, purchased over the counter at Penzance without question. The staff member simply opened the ticketing manual to a page of bar-codes, scanned the light pen across the right one and placed a suitable ticket into the APTIS. Couldn't have been easier.

 

That it isn't now is a disgrace and that needs to be corrected.

[coly]

Hi ,

 

we can help a bit.

 

Have a look at this link http://www.arc-online.net/pages/all-line-rovers.php

 

We have added this information to our web site, which is under construction and don't look as good as I want it to, but at least we can add the prices of the All-line Rovers.

 

I will find out how you can purchase them, but don't hold your breath.

 

Regards

 

coly

[D6975]

As I recall the National Rail website used to give a three digit code consisting of both letter and numerals for the ranger and rover tickets. For instance the Cornwall Day Ranger was TSB whilst the North Country 4 in 8 Day Rover was ticket type NC8.

 

The problem is that unless you know what the ticket is called then it's quite difficult to ask for it! However Section G of ATOCs NFM98 is available on line from which you can see the various ticket types and their restrictions / validity etc.

 

http://www.atoc.org/...98_Common_g.pdf

 

Please note that the prices quoted in it were for the period 02 Jan - 17 May 2008 !

 

 

Thanks for that link, it wouldn't open the page for me, but right clicking and using 'save target as' worked OK.

As you say, some prices have changed, but it's so useful to have the list and a printout of the appropriate page should convince doubting ticket office staff.