Derekstuart Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Yes, I've seen that dvd. I think it was already going fairly quickly though. I have tried to get some cues from google/ bing maps as even though they built a supermarket there, there's still likely to be clues to gradients- but I think a site visit is in order. Era? Really the late 80's BUT modelled as it SHOULD have been- ie fully working. But that said as a coastal town up Norf (sic) it had its ancient sempahores, lineside infrastructure, signage etc all in place until early 80s anyway, so really on that basis you could choose anything from 1890 to 1990 by stock choice alone. Some things I have chosen out of era- but for a good reason. The very large goods shed was bombed by the Luftwaffe in 1940 and became about 1/3. I did intend to model it as I saw it in 1988, but it was such an impressive building that I feel I have to do the whole thing. The same goes for the engine stable and consequently the stabling sidings, which were mostly lifted late 50s. The only other issue is that in early 1900's the NER added several wooden lean-to's around the station. I am going to model the front of the station as built as it was a truly impressive design with its portico's, but the back of the station I will model the wooden shacks as I think the back of the station is always less attractive..I know some people won't approve of that, which is fine- let them have a go at the estimated 100ft of track, 38ft long layout, 5 year build time, 2 large buildings, 2 boxes, 2 platelayers hut, 1/3 long harbour wall, 30 handmade points to go with the 100ft handmade track (C&L ply/steel/chair).Amongst the research so far it has taken weeks of experimentation and lots of advice, to work out the geometry of the station throat to make it "as was". Sorry. Rambling again, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted November 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2014 If you do late 80s with the track layout as it was,or indeed early 80s when the track was still extant. Why not include potash trains running round from the not built (then) potash mine at Hawsker? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 You mean as an "excuse" for keeping a lightly used line open? I prefer the one in which "ernest marples was arrested for fraud BEFORE he appointed beeching"- but I take your point. Though I think that's a long way off yet. I'm currently bashing wall against head over a simple job that I could do in the 1990's but seem to struggle with now :-S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted November 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2014 Well the LNER seriously considered closing Whitby -Scarborough as early as 1929 I found when I came back to modelling there were tasks I couldn't get on with but soon got reacustomed to it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I have walked and biked that route many times from Boulby down to Scarborough. My Dad showed me many places of note along the route and it's such a shame. Still, at least marples got his comeuppance in the end. The problem I was having is ballasting. When I was last in it, it was stone chippings- now it's ground up nut shells. I have dismantled 4 yds of damaged SMP track and am experimenting. Most of it's a mess, but gradually finding out what works with the new stuff. Plenty of others have described on here what they do, but none seem to work for me- I think we all need to find something that works for us ourselves. Or as I said when I first came on here- I could give up and learn to play the violin! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted November 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2014 I got to ride in a forestry commission land rover from Ravenscar to Robin Hoods bay which was good and I've walked the viaduct and tunnels and driven Boulby tees dock more times than I care to remember I uses woodland scenics fine ballast and find it quite easy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Yes I am using WS too. What method did you use? glue then ballast or ballast then glue? Perhaps it is the glue? I know PVA should all be the same, but there's always minor variations. I did get on better with copydex, but not hugely. Or maybe I'm just more critical than I need to be. The point is that you should be able to look at it and say "looks real" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted November 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2014 I mixed mine with cascamite and misted with brownish water Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Hi Derek and Russ, I just have to say that one of my student holiday jobs was to assist with the preliminary site survey for the Boulby Mine. How time flies. Regards Ray PS As regards ballasting I have a rather unorthodox approach. I use poppy seeds which are probably too coarse for P4 modellers. I also use wallpaper paste as a binder. I have used it with silt and sand to make a 'plaster' - it has the benefit that it can be removed easily with water. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted November 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2014 I think the mice round here might see your ballast style as a 12x16 banquet table! I've seen pictures on east Cleveland photo archive of the shaft at Boulby, dug with just a 3ft wooden fence round it, great protection for a 3/4mile hole! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 cascamite! I've heard all about that stuff. I just didn't know the spelling to use in google (the bloke mis-pronounced it).IIUC it is powdered and you mix it with the dry ballast then spread it exactly where you want it, apply water and then go for a pint. That about it?Ray- it just goes to show that you really never know who you will encounter in the world of model railways- the range and depth of knowledge, experience and skills is probably un-paralleled anywhere else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Que? I think the mice round here might see your ballast style as a 12x16 banquet table! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted November 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2014 That was for ray's method sorry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted November 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2014 cascamite! I've heard all about that stuff. I just didn't know the spelling to use in google (the bloke mis-pronounced it). IIUC it is powdered and you mix it with the dry ballast then spread it exactly where you want it, apply water and then go for a pint. That about it? That's about it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Ah sorry, I think Ray edited his post and I didn't see it as I was slow between reading the post and replying. Looks the part though Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G567281 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Alun, it just shows how the hobby has changed since I was last involved nearly 1/4 century ago (22-23 years?) - back then the few hand made (I think this was PRE DCK) examples of 107/108 could be differentiated by number only. Alan, Thank you- all information is always useful. When you say Middlesborough to Scarborough- I take it you mean via Saltburn and the coast road? Ray, Great Ayton to Scarborough? Now that's got me puzzled. What route would it have taken? Or do you mean it's a Whitby service and that stock is then diagrammed to run a Whitby Scarborough service afterwards (or was the service advertised as Scarborough as a through service, despite the two chanTges of direction?) I am modelling Whitby in P4 (yes I know there's much to learn first- hence my "somewhere on sea" test plank under construction now)- I don't suppose you know Whitby station well by any chance do you, being in the area? Hi Derek, I know Whitby quite well, to obsession. I did a photo bash in October 1972 prior to leaving for Canada. I also have a copy of the original drawings for the track diagram including Prospect Hill Junction. At a scale of 1" equals 33', your can imagine it is quite large, even shows the location of the telegraph poles. Always glad to help if I can. I model in O gauge but I buy anything in 4mm that is Whitby related. My DMU fleet are to EM gauge using Black Beetle Wheelsets, all are DCC, some with Digitrains Zimo Sound decoders. I am happy to send you copies of my black/white pic 's if of interest. Regards, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G567281 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Anybody tried to EM one of these yet? I would be interested to see the processes involved. Easy peasy, you can use Black Beetle wheelsets or re gauge the existing ones. I have used both methods on 101's and which is what I 108's. You will need a sharp scalpel to remove a piece of plastic that connects the brake shoes inside the bogies. Regards, Alan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G567281 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Hi Derek, I know Whitby quite well, to obsession. I did a photo bash in October 1972 prior to leaving for Canada. I also have a copy of the original drawings for the track diagram including Prospect Hill Junction. At a scale of 1" equals 33', your can imagine it is quite large, even shows the location of the telegraph poles. Always glad to help if I can. I model in O gauge but I buy anything in 4mm that is Whitby related. My DMU fleet are to EM gauge using Black Beetle Wheelsets, all are DCC, some with Digitrains Zimo Sound decoders. I am happy to send you copies of my black/white pic 's if of interest. Regards, Alan Sorry I missed one of your questions. The last trains using the Saltburn to Brotton route for Whitby/Scarborough trains ran in the summer of 1957 and were steam hauled summer excursions. Normal steam services were via Guisborough. In 1958 the Whitby WestCliff to Loftus section closed and DMU's worked the Loftus/Middlesbrough service via Guisborough to Middlesbrough for a couple of years before the Loftus/Guisborough section closed. I only have one picture of a Class 101 on driver training taken at Sandsend. This was taken by the Station Master. My earlier reference to the types of DMU's pertains to services via the Eski Valley route after closure of the through coast route. Whitby West Cliff became a terminus until closure in 1961. DMU's would reverse here. Regards, Alan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted November 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2014 I didn't know DMUs ever got along the northern coastal section. That picture must be really rare. 350hp shunters were used for track lifting and I thought these were the only diesels ever used on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G567281 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I didn't know DMUs ever got along the northern coastal section. That picture must be really rare. 350hp shunters were used for track lifting and I thought these were the only diesels ever used on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G567281 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Only one Class 40 on an excursion. Four character headcode. Photo by the late Ken Hoole if I recall. Not sure if I can read the number however. Regards. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 G587261, I've just appointed you my new best friend! Do you mind me asking where/ how you came by those drawings? I have copies of architects drawings for the buildings- they are copies of copies and the scale is blurred, but with my collection of well over 100 photo's, I have managed to scale them. I don't suppose your diagram shows what type of points/ turnouts were used, does it? I am struggling with getting the geometry of the station mouth- the three way- just right. With the help of someone else I managed to get something that fits, but I know it isn't right (no one will spot it I am sure, but nevertheless, I set out with an aim of total accuracy (except where I've deliberately decided to change something- see above). The tandem looks to be a B6/B8 combination from North facing shots, but from South I'm sure it isn't. Also road 2 has (IIRC) 45ft straight, where as my plan shows only 30ft straight, so I know it isn't quite right. Once I've started, if I post a link to my 'diary' I would really appreciate any comments or observations on my progress; without giving my age away, I don't recall it from the "proper" days and didn't really know it properly until the year before the co-op was built. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekstuart Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Alan When you say a 40, where abouts do you mean? North or South of Boulby? North doesn't surprise me as the line is equipped for heavyweights. But you don't mean South of Boulby do you? If so that'd be a hell of a sight to see. I am told that the climb out of Prospect Hill barred most stock there due to the climb and the curve (that wasn't from my Dad, who would know 100% but sadly isn't here to say) so that would mean surely a run up from Scarborough. I have ordered a couple of Ken Hoole books (second hand as out of print) but whether they will ever arrive or not is anyone's guess. BTW do you think we need to mention anything about decorated 101 samples to avoid being thrown off for going off topic? If anyone is interested, there are some really good photos (not specifically about Whitby area, but there are several) on David Hey's page. www.davidheyscollection.com A priceless collection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G567281 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Alan When you say a 40, where abouts do you mean? North or South of Boulby? North doesn't surprise me as the line is equipped for heavyweights. But you don't mean South of Boulby do you? If so that'd be a hell of a sight to see. I am told that the climb out of Prospect Hill barred most stock there due to the climb and the curve (that wasn't from my Dad, who would know 100% but sadly isn't here to say) so that would mean surely a run up from Scarborough. I have ordered a couple of Ken Hoole books (second hand as out of print) but whether they will ever arrive or not is anyone's guess. BTW do you think we need to mention anything about decorated 101 samples to avoid being thrown off for going off topic? If anyone is interested, there are some really good photos (not specifically about Whitby area, but there are several) on David Hey's page. www.davidheyscollection.com A priceless collection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G567281 Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 Alan When you say a 40, where abouts do you mean? North or South of Boulby? North doesn't surprise me as the line is equipped for heavyweights. But you don't mean South of Boulby do you? If so that'd be a hell of a sight to see. I am told that the climb out of Prospect Hill barred most stock there due to the climb and the curve (that wasn't from my Dad, who would know 100% but sadly isn't here to say) so that would mean surely a run up from Scarborough. I have ordered a couple of Ken Hoole books (second hand as out of print) but whether they will ever arrive or not is anyone's guess. BTW do you think we need to mention anything about decorated 101 samples to avoid being thrown off for going off topic? If anyone is interested, there are some really good photos (not specifically about Whitby area, but there are several) on David Hey's page. www.davidheyscollection.com A priceless collection. Sorry Derek, it was on the Whitby to Scarboough section, going up Ravenscar bank where green 101's were in abundance. Not sure if it was published as I acquired mine during a visit to Ken's home. I am recently new to this posting exercise. Maybe you could start a post on Whitby. The drawing I obtained from BR York around 1976. Kindest regards Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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