gordon s Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Apologies up front that this is nothing to do with RTL track, but Martin Wynne posted this link in my ET thread. This is an interesting development from DCC Concepts in Australia. It appears to be very professionally done and clearly a lot of thought has gone into the presentation. I'm curious to learn more, so will do some searching on the web…. It's certainly not going to answer your prayers, but may give you some ideas... http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28398 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted January 27, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2014 Hi Mike That is interesting I am sure when Peco narrow gauge has been mentioned in the past as being a limited market there has been crys of "It sells well abroad". Does it? I hope it does but it sounds like in France it might not sell as well as we would like to think. I don't believe it does Clive - for the simple reason that unlike most of the rest of Europe to the east (Germany and Switzerland eastwards) track gauges of 700mm to 800mm (which could be represented by 9mm track in HO) were virtually unknown in France. Effectively gauges were restricted to 600mm or metre - although before others come in and say what about.... - there were some exceptions but these were rare. Peco HOm track does seem to sell reasonably well from what I can tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Thanks for the link Gordon, but as you say...... Apologies up front that this is nothing to do with RTL track..... Dare I say, "....Move along now. There's nothing to see here....". . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted January 27, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2014 Hi Joseph I've done a little delving and one of the family, Jean-Charles Fournereau, had a company called Loisirs Selection who did sell Peco products but my impression was that they were dealers rather than wholesalers and in any case closed in 2005. At one time Peco were Jouef's UK importers but I'm not aware of that being any time recently. Loco-Revue have run a number of articles over the years on the choice of fine scale track and superdetailing it and I've never noticed any bias towards Peco. I did not know that Loisirs Selection had ceased trading - which would explain why/how Peco now distribute direct to French retailers. That should have had a big impact on the retail price of Peco there and made the success of their track products, including bi-bloc and metre-gauge, posssible. Going back in history, Loco-Revue came into existence at about the same time Railway Modeller was taken over by Peco. Loisirs Selection which published Loco-Revue was an established model raillway business specialising in motors and control systems. Sydney Pritchard was a close friend of the Fournereaus who had, I believe, given him a great deal of assistance when Peco was dealing with patent issues around the Simplex coupling. By the time that I was a retailer in France, the business had been split into two with one son having Loco-Revue and the other the distribution business. At that time, early 90s, Peco would absolutely not supply to France other than via Loisirs Selection who charged more wholesale than UK box-shifters were charging retail! That certainly restricted the market for Peco and gave an advantage to Roco. I can applaud Sydney and Michael Pritchard's loyalty to old friends but commercially it was daft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 "...There's nothing to see here....". . I'm beginning to think you might just be right in that assertion having dipped back to this thread for a catch up..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted January 27, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2014 Apologies up front that this is nothing to do with RTL track, but Martin Wynne posted this link in my ET thread. This is an interesting development from DCC Concepts in Australia. It appears to be very professionally done and clearly a lot of thought has gone into the presentation. I'm curious to learn more, so will do some searching on the web…. It's certainly not going to answer your prayers, but may give you some ideas... http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28398 Martin did indicate early in this thread that he was expecting something from the Antipodes. If this is it I'm a bit disappointed. This product does not seem to me to be as advanced as the C&L/Exactoscale products: too much soldering! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePurplePrimer Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) I think that dcc concepts kit is really interesting - do the bits of rail that need machining, bending, filing come in the kit ready to use or do you have to do that bit yourself ? I have never made my own track but I would be up for trying that I think Edited January 27, 2014 by ThePurplePrimer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2014 Martin did indicate early in this thread that he was expecting something from the Antipodes. If this is it I'm a bit disappointed. Richard Johnson of DCC Concepts has just posted this on the 00-SF email group: "More will come soon - All is ready to go however I am still trying to find enough time to complete background information and instructions to go with them... regards Richard" It's not (yet) RTL, so there is a separate topic to discuss this: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81514-new-00-sf-turnout-kits-and-gauges-from-dcc-concepts/ Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2014 do the bits of rail that need machining, bending, filing come in the kit ready to use or do you have to do that bit yourself ? I have never made my own track but I would be up for trying that I think Hi Rob, In that case you may be interested in these kits from C&L -- currently only in P4, but kits for 00 and EM are promised: http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=346_384_390_537 Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the link Gordon, but as you say...... Apologies up front that this is nothing to do with RTL track Dare I say, "....Move along now. There's nothing to see here....". I'm beginning to think you might just be right in that assertion having dipped back to this thread for a catch up..... Well there's been nothing new over the last few days, in the way of developments in this thread; but I was actually referring to another inclusion of off-topic material, even if this particular one is interesting in itself. . Edited January 27, 2014 by Ron Ron Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I agree it's off topic, I knew that when I posted it, but thought it might give food for thought on a kit version of what you guys are looking for. A set of cut and machined rails that could be slid into moulded chairs. It was just good to see all the sleepers numbered and on a webbed fret. Tillig already offer kit versions of all their pointwork, or at least they used to…. "Using the ELITE track technology we are able to offer points kits with everything ready-machined for easy assembly.The advantages are individual compatability with certain railway construction and the lower price". If it did away with soldering and hand machining/filing, it might be something worth considering... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted January 27, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2014 I agree it's off topic, I knew that when I posted it, but thought it might give food for thought on a kit version of what you guys are looking for. A set of cut and machined rails that could be slid into moulded chairs. It was just good to see all the sleepers numbered and on a webbed fret. Tillig already offer kit versions of all their pointwork, or at least they used to…. "Using the ELITE track technology we are able to offer points kits with everything ready-machined for easy assembly.The advantages are individual compatability with certain railway construction and the lower price". If it did away with soldering and hand machining/filing, it might be something worth considering... I still think that we should be aiming for a ready-to-lay product. But I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility of easy-to-build kits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I agree it's off topic, I knew that when I posted it, but thought it might give food for thought on a kit version of what you guys are looking for. Thanks for the link Gordon. I'm all for building one's own and any new product that makes that easier, has to be welcomed. However ....and I hope you don't mind me saying so, it doesn't really address the subject in hand. Tillig already offer kit versions of all their pointwork, or at least they used to….... If it did away with soldering and hand machining/filing, it might be something worth considering... AFAIK they still offer the turnout kits and track components to match the RTL Elite range. Unfortunately the Tillig Elite range is for H0 and not what people like myself feel should be available for 00; although a British looking 00 product based on Tillig Elite would be most welcome and very much along those lines IMHO. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 That's exactly what I was suggesting as a possible option. It would offer savings on assembly tooling. Apologies if that was not clear from my posting. A base or something similar to the DCC Concepts product in 00 with UK sleeper spacing (or an acceptable compromise) with all the rails etc ready machined and just slid into position as per the Tillig range. I appreciate the preferred option is a full RTL product, but should that not be economically feasible, then a kit along these lines may be worth considering. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2014 A base or something similar to the DCC Concepts product in 00 with UK sleeper spacing (or an acceptable compromise) with all the rails etc ready machined and just slid into position Hi Gordon, Such kits have been available in P4 from Exactoscale and now C&L for several years (all rails prepared, no soldering). They are excellent: http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=346_384_390_537 C&L have already announced that they will be producing similar kits in 00. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Thanks Martin, I hadn't realised that so I'll go back to sleep again….:-) I wouldn't mind soldering up one of the 00-SF kits as a guinea pig though…. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 They do look amazing........but can you see any one going for their purses in OO........? Will folks pay say 4 times a Pecorino point, or will they just make do? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2014 I wouldn't mind soldering up one of the 00-SF kits as a guinea pig though…. Hi Gordon, If you ask Richard nicely he might send you one. He seems to be beta testing the concept: http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28398&view=findpost&p=331775 Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) If the C&L kits for 00 are as eye-wateringly expensive as the P4 ones (£49.00 - £54.00) I don't somehow think they'll be reaching the same market we are talking about here. IMHO we are looking for an acceptable range (albeit small to start with) of 'British' looking 00 turnouts at around £20 per item, RTL, and perhaps compatible with the SMP / C&L plain track, which is already available. Edited January 27, 2014 by Adams442T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted January 27, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2014 If the C&L kits for 00 are as eye-wateringly as expensive as the P4 ones (£49.00 - £54.00) I don't somehow think they'll be reaching the same market we are talking about here. IMHO we are looking for an acceptable range (albeit small to start with) of 'British' looking 00 turnouts at around £20 per item, RTL, and perhaps compatible with the SMP / C&L plain track, which is already available. Like others here, I just can't see many current Peco users paying 4x/5x the price for something that they then have to put together. One needs to get closer to the price of the SMP plastic-based kit albeit accepting that it will be more expensive with switches filed and an assembled crossing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I don't believe it does Clive - for the simple reason that unlike most of the rest of Europe to the east (Germany and Switzerland eastwards) track gauges of 700mm to 800mm (which could be represented by 9mm track in HO) were virtually unknown in France. Effectively gauges were restricted to 600mm or metre - although before others come in and say what about.... - there were some exceptions but these were rare. Peco HOm track does seem to sell reasonably well from what I can tell. That reminds me - I may have confused HOm with HOn, I did not check the labels closely in the shop but noticed it was NG by Peco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Hi Rob, In that case you may be interested in these kits from C&L -- currently only in P4, but kits for 00 and EM are promised: http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=346_384_390_537 Martin. Leaving aside the cost and the assembly required, the problem is that they've been promised for several years now. I don't for a moment want to be flippant about the health problems of Len Newman and others, and I'm sure people would want to wish them all the best, but the awkward fact is that these OO and EM point kits have been "brochureware" for a while and are likely to remain that way for some time - for reasons that those involved in producing them must regret more than anyone else. While you'd hope that economies of scale would make the OO kits cheaper than the P4 ones, any form of kit is simply going to have a small effect at the margin. It won't have any really significant impact . I It's just the same as saying that there's no need for Bachmann's L&Y tank because London Rd Models do an etched kit ( I remember someone,did say exactly that when Bachmann announced the model). We all know that only a few percent (perhaps 1-2%) of those who buy the RTR model would ever manage to build and finish the kit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted January 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2014 It's just the same as saying that there's no need for Bachmann's L&Y tank because London Rd Models do an etched kit The difference is that apart from Marcway no-one has yet announced RTL pointwork for 00 gauge. So are those who care about their track simply to wait and hope? Whereas 00 pointwork kits and components are available. Which means they have nothing to lose by giving them a try. Like many modellers before them, they might find that building track isn't so difficult after all, and they may even find that they enjoy it. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Going back in history, Loco-Revue came into existence at about the same time Railway Modeller was taken over by Peco. Loisirs Selection which published Loco-Revue was an established model raillway business specialising in motors and control systems. Sydney Pritchard was a close friend of the Fournereaus who had, I believe, given him a great deal of assistance when Peco was dealing with patent issues around the Simplex coupling. Hi Joseph Loco Revue was actually a lot older than RM having been founded by Jean Edmond Fournereau in 1937 but this is quite a bit off topic so I'll PM you. Edited January 28, 2014 by Pacific231G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The difference is that apart from Marcway no-one has yet announced RTL pointwork for 00 gauge. So are those who care about their track simply to wait and hope? Whereas 00 pointwork kits and components are available. Which means they have nothing to lose by giving them a try. Like many modellers before them, they might find that building track isn't so difficult after all, and they may even find that they enjoy it. I have built turnouts in EM since about 1968, so I'm lucky perhaps in that they hold no fears for me. I have though built up a collection of some of the nicer pre-war locos, M7, T9, L&Y 2-4-2, Beattie Well Tank, etc., etc. Even if wheelsets were available for all of them I would be reluctant to undertake both EM conversion, which takes a lot longer than dropping wheels into diesels, and to face building another EM layout for them. Why? Because the one thing I lack is TIME! I can see constructing another layout, but I would want to concentrate my time on scenery and buildings, so RTL trackwork would be a huge bonus. That is why I feel it is worth persuing the possibilities of better looking turnouts RTL. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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