Coach bodging

[JCL]

An update to this thread is seriously overdue! Or has it become unstuck?

[uax6]

I have to apologise for the lack of updates here, its almost a year since I last showed you what I was up to. For this I have to blame my wife. We went away to Norway last summer for a holiday and she contracted a nasty bug that gave her Pneumonia lack symptoms, and almost killed her. As such that sort of knocked everything this end into a cocked hat, and getting time to do updates was difficult.

 

Anyway, she is now more or less back to normal moaning level, so lets carry one shall we?

 

I left the TPO with a more or less complete body, which leaves us with the bogies. The cast ones I had in stock were used again, but this time I needed ones with Iracier axleboxes. To do this I draw the shape on the computer and used the cutter to cut a load out:

 

 

The bogie side frame as supplied with oil box:

 

The front was then filed down at an angle to something like this:

 

Then the plastic box front was added, along with scrap bits of etch to make up the footboard brackets:

 

And then bits of 20thou (with 1mm angle at the back to give the upstand) shaped to be the footboards:

 

The footboards that hang from the underframe were done in the same way:

 

And then superglued to the rear of the solebar:

 

With the body sat on the bogies we get this:

 

To check the height I put the compo on (And yes it still isn't finished!) and it looks spot on:

 

Under the floor the bogies ride on these, which give a small amount of compensation:

 

While I made up the bogies I noticed that the end crossmembers didn't quite touch the sides properly, so I packed them out with a bit of styrene, which allowed them to be glued all round (although I need to add epoxy to them too, as one has since fallen apart!):

 

A steam heating pipe was then added along the underside of the footboard:

 

Well that is, apart from paint and then the fitting of the commode handles and apparatus lamps, this pair done. One was sent up to Ben Alders Far North Line, where it occasionally makes an appearance, whereas mine sits in a box waiting to be painted!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChrisN]

Andy,

Sorry to hear about your wife.  Glad that she has recovered.  I would say wish her well from me but she would wonder who it is.  (Say 'that bloke who keeps pestering me about the cutter...')

[uax6]

There's so many, she still wouldn't know who it is!

 

For the next instalment I have an issue: I've got two builds on the go, both are at a similar stage. Which one do you want to see? HR coupé or MR diner? Your choice.

 

Andy G

[Budgie]

As someone whose health has gone downhill fast in the last year, I say the most important thing in life is staying healthy and maintaining the health of yourself and everyone else in your family. If that means that your hobby slows down, so be it. I also wish your wife well, and may she stay well for a long time.

[Londontram]

 Which one do you want to see? HR coupé or MR diner? Your choice.

 

Andy G

Diner please Andy though as you know I'm biased

[JCL]

It's good to hear that she's on the mend properly now. She's a dab hand with a telephone cable.

 

What's a HR coupe?

[uax6]

According to google the deffinition of coupe (you will have to imagine the accent on the e as I can't work out how to do it on this computer (the one at home suggested the accent!) is:

coupé/ˈkuːpeɪ/

 

noun

1. a car with a fixed roof, two doors, and a sloping rear.
2. a four-wheeled enclosed carriage for two passengers and a driver.
3. (in South Africa) an end compartment in a railway carriage, with seats on only one side.

Now why it is only in South Africa I haven't a clue, as I've always known them as coupes.....

 

Now a coupe (without accent is) :

coupe/kuːp/

 

noun

a shallow glass or glass dish, typically with a stem, in which desserts or champagne are served.

I won't be modelling any of them in the coupe, but can you get them for the diner I wonder.....

 

BTW Ross has provided photos of the coupe in this thread, the clue is that its green.... ;-}

 

Andy G

Edited March 20, 2016 by uax6

[LNWR lives on]

MR Diner for me :-)

 

The TPO is just an outstanding piece of modeling

[Ben Alder]

I must declare a vested interest in both, so I will stay neutral in the decision making...

[uax6]

Well from the amazing response it would appear that the Midland Railway diner has taken the lead, therefore its next in the write up queue...

 

Why a Midland Railway diner? Well after grouping the LMS imported lots of different pre-grouping stock up to the Highland lines, basically to improve on the somewhat basic provision that was the Highland legacy. To this end Midland Railway 8 wheel and 12 wheel diners made their way north. As Richard and I both need some suitable stock, the 8 wheel diner has been selected for the first build (I also want a 12wheel one, but that will be built later on). The 8 wheelers lasted into the 50's so its not so much of a stretch for Richard....

 

Anyway, what does this beast look like? Heres a link:

http://www.ambaile.org.uk/detail/en/23823/1/GD23823.htm

 

As you can see this is an interesting carriage. It has what is known as a 'clipper' profile. Ie the main part of the body is wider than the doors. Now there's a challenge!

 

As usual the sides were cut on the portrait, and then laminated up. I was making it up a bit as I went along, but I knew I wanted the cantrail to be continous whatever happened.

 

 

These two shots show one side. The top two layers have been laminted and you can see one of the inner layers beneath. You can see the slots in the sides were the recesses will be formed.

 

Heres the two sides having the tumblehome formed:

 

 

To get the clipper side profile correct took a lot of fiddling about, but I stumbled on the answer quite quickly, it just needed an extra layer before the backing, so that the bottom came in more.

 

It sat around for ages at this point (and I don't seem to have many pictures of this early part of the build), mainly because I got the ends wrong. One end is the normal carriage width, the other being clipper profile. It took three attempts to get this right....grrr (don't trust drawings without checking!).

 

Anyway I dug the old girl out a couple of weeks back and decided to get her assembled. So a floor was cut (to the width of the clipper bit of the body) and the recesses cut (1mm each side) for the narrow part of the body. Solebars of 20thou were added, and the headstocks added to. These are 3 laminations of 20 thou, to get the correct thickness:

 

More next time (I'm building this a couple of posts ahead, so its almost real time!)

 

 

Andy G

[JCL]

Blimey Andy, you've picked an interesting one there. I shall be following this with interest

 

Btw, what happened to the carriage you did that was a cut and shut of two different width vehicles?

Edited March 20, 2016 by JCL

[uax6]

JCL wrote:

Btw, what happened to the carriage you did that was a cut and shut of two different width vehicles?
 

Look at the bottom of page one of this thread, theres a fairly good description of how I bodged that together!

 

 

I think I need to explain a bit more about the recessed door cuts. After lamination I discovered that although the cuts for these were more or less in line, the panels that needed to be inset were not really happy to be moved away from the surface. So quite some time was spent with a sheet of wet and dry passed through the slits making the gap wider so that they moved. That was slow and boring work I can tell you, as you also had to be careful not to snap the bits apart as they are only held together by the 2mm cantrail...

 

Andy G

[Buhar]

Hi Andy, is that a Midland & GSW diner or pure MR?

[JCL]

You're absolutely right of course, beg 'pardon.

[Portchullin Tatty]

Andy,

 

The MR diners are really beautiful vehicles; especially in the fully lined livery.  

 

When I get some daylight (sorry, probably not until the weekend) I will take a few pictures of mine to assist and I have some pictures of the preserved GSWR/MR dining car in the national collection - which whilst not the exact one you are doing is a close sister.

 

What I would warn is that there are a number of subtleties that are not that clear on the drawing.  These mostly relate concertina effect between the sections of the side.  These are rounded - convex where the outer panel turns into the recess and then concave where the recess then meets this turn.  Worse then this, where there is also a grab rail at this point (which is common), this is scalloped out to allow hands to wrap around the rear of the grab rail.  The photos will show this better than probably my words can - or take a really close look at Jenkinson's books and it will start to be clear!

[iak]

Whoooosh!

[uax6]

Here are some views of the erected sides on the floor. As always the camera seems to pick up faults that your eyes don't (and that even when I wear my glasses!):

 

 

Hopefully its beginning to look like the vehicle in question....

 

One of the issues with this vehicle is the bogies. They were a pressed steel bogie of vaguely Fox pattern. I'm looking for suggestions to a suitable type, otherwise I'll have to use a pair of HR fox ones. They are a bit like the ECJS/NER fox versions. Can I get them from anywhere? (preferably cast ones!).

 

Thanks for the offer of photos of yours Mark, I doubt I'll be able to achieve all the details, but I hopefully will get the flavour of them.

 

Andy G

[Portchullin Tatty]

Here you go Andy, a few close ups of the MR & GSWR dining car that is in the national collection.  I really took these to show the livery and also on a bleak January afternoon (so the light wasn't good); hence the lack of an overall picture.

 

I haven't yet taken pictures of my model, these are to follow.

 

[Portchullin Tatty]

And here are a few of my version of the dining car.

 

This is built from a 5522 Models etched brass kit and was certainly a pretty big challenge to make!

 

 

It is presently undergoing a restoration having had a close encounter with gravity courtesy of our cat and also replacement bogies.  It is actually quite close to complete so I must get my finger out!

[uax6]

Looks very nice, and the fully lined livery really sets it off. I'm not looking forward to the time when I'm going to have to start lining all my builds. For present I'm happy to get them all in LMS red.

 

More on the build next week..

 

Andy g

[jrg1]

When can we see Maid of Morven and various Clayton Pullmans?  Great work.

[uax6]

Sadly there will be no Pullmans on this thread... Far grander carriages are on the horizon ;-)

 

Some are in the cad stage, the others are in the research stage... Anyone going to York soon?

 

Andy g

[uax6]

After getting the sides up, I wanted to get some partitions in it, to help stablise the sides. These are made from three layers of 10thou, laminated to give the slidey door look. The doors to the smoking compartment are closed, but the one to the kitchen is open:

 

The kitchen side is left loose, so that the inside of the corridor can be painted. At this point I put some filler on the sides where the door rebates are, and then it was a start on the roof. Previously I have tried to cut and shut Ratio roofs. This has never been succesful, as it appears that the mould is not consistant along its length, and also the flash is getting bad on the ones you now get. So it was out with some basic tools. Masking tape, 20 thou sheet, copper pipe and a lit rayburn. I tried various bits of pipe and discovered that 15mm was almost perfect. So a strip of 20thou was wrapped around the pipe and secured with the tape. It was then put in the oven for about 5 mins to form. Having used this method with my bit of steam pipe for arc roofs, I was surprised how hot the copper got in such a short space of time, but the sheets came out ok, although unwrapping them proved a pain.

 

Anyway, the roof is built up in my usual method. A flat base cut to the overall size of the outside of the gutter, with little nibs that poke out the ends to form the end of the beading at the coach end...

 

The formed bits of sheet where then measured up to fit and cut with a blade against a steel edge, which was interesting as the shape was very strong and couldn't be flattened down. The were then offered up, and cut to fit between the ends, leaving an overhang which can be cut back later:

They were a tad twisted (so the photo below shows me holding them with my fingers), so were wound up in a spiral until the twist disappeared.

I then cut some strips of 20 thou to stand upwards to support the inside of this lower roof. With these cemented in place the curved sections were cemented in place:

 

That classic Midland Clerestory profile is starting to appear:

 

The next bit is the clerestory sides, which reminds me, I must get the cutter out to cut them out!

 

Andy G

 

 

[uax6]

And now for a little plea:

 

I've been doing some research for the coupe and have come across a few issues that I can't find answers for from the few photos of them in service I have:

 

Did they have a handrail on the bodyside at the lower end where the steps were?

Did they keep their oil lamps during LMS days?

 

Does anyone have an answer please?

 

Andy G