ThePurplePrimer Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I have seen a trackplan in a magazine article (RM) and off of a small siding is a tiny section of track labelled as a 'spur' Obviously I can't fairly put the whole trackplan here but this is the snippet of it I am talking about ... It looks very short so I'm not sure what it's prototypical function would be PS the small structure at the bottom right hand of the picture is a water tower Do you know ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 It's a mis-labelling of the set of points (trap-points), used to stop a vehicle running away from the siding on to the main line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePurplePrimer Posted December 18, 2013 Author Share Posted December 18, 2013 Thanks for the reply Brian I did wonder if that was it but my knowledge of railways is very limited ( but I am reading as quick as I can ) The thing that seemed odd to me is if it's a catch point the wouldn't a runaway get routed straight into the signal box ? Also none of the rest of that plan has any catch points and there are a few sidings ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matloughe Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Hopefully there would be a sand drag or something like that to protect the signalbox, in my experience the actual track leading away from the trap point would be much shorter then indicated on the diagram there. Looking carefully at the plan the signalman would have a grandstand view of a runaway wagon shooting past the front of his box - I bet it'd make him spill his tea for sure! Cheers, ~ Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Hopefully there would be a sand drag or something like that to protect the signalbox, in my experience the actual track leading away from the trap point would be much shorter then indicated on the diagram there. Looking carefully at the plan the signalman would have a grandstand view of a runaway wagon shooting past the front of his box - I bet it'd make him spill his tea for sure! Cheers, ~ Gary And we all know what steps he'd take... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePurplePrimer Posted December 18, 2013 Author Share Posted December 18, 2013 This has now made me ask another question How common are catch points and how would you decide where you need one ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePurplePrimer Posted December 18, 2013 Author Share Posted December 18, 2013 I just dug the article out again ( I was previously looking at just a copy of the trackplan ) and Brian is quite correct. In the text for the article it refers to some of the track parts used and refers to 1x catch point Thanks for the help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted December 18, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2013 There are others on this forum who are much better qualified than me but as I understand it the catch/trap point had to be provided toi protect any passnger running line where a siding joined it. usually goods sidings had no signals and hand worked points. However the actual set of points that controlled the exit onto the main line were always controlled by the signal box and interlocked. Both points in the arrangement would usually be worked by the same lever. there would also usually be a ground or shunt signal controlling the exit from the siding. Sometimes the siding exit was too far from the sugnal box for a standard set of point rodding so a ground frame would be provided but with a lock controlled by a wire run from the box. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Sometimes the function of the trap point is taken by an actual point (into a reverse siding or off a headshunt for instance). In other words the 'spur' extends into a siding or loop. A catch point is what you get (got) on a running line to prevent a train running away in the wrong direction down gradient if it has become detached or its brakes have failed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2013 Easy to remember - If you head towards a passenger running line when you shouldn't you will be trapped (by a trap point), and If the back of your train etc rolls away on a gradient it will be caught (by a catch point). Trap points are facing points and catch points are trailing points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted December 18, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2013 The thing that seemed odd to me is if it's a catch point the wouldn't a runaway get routed straight into the signal box ? Better to squash a signal box than derail a passenger train, though I'm not sure that the signal box staff would totally agree with that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Bognor signal box is shorter than it was due to a runaway hitting it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 The other thing you could do in that location is have the spur long enough to hold a coal wagon. The St. Ives (Cornwall) shed* had a combined water tower and coaling stage, and a wagon of coal was frequently stored in the headshunt, which was a similar length to the 'spur' in the diagram. Adrian *it was a fairly minimal facility - the shed could hold one 45xx, with another at the coal stage/water tower. Beyond that was the headshunt and access to the main line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePurplePrimer Posted December 18, 2013 Author Share Posted December 18, 2013 Thanks Adrian I quite like that idea Do I assume it would have had a buffer ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Probably would have either run into a sand drag or just ended. A set of buffer stops would risk suddenly stopping any runaways so they jack-knifed and went onto the main line. There have been several accidents over the years when a runaway train has demolished a signal box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Bognor signal box is shorter than it was due to a runaway hitting it? Yes, 4 CIG 1710 moved unexpectedly, and unmanned, and came to rest in the base of the box... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 The thing that seemed odd to me is if it's a catch point the wouldn't a runaway get routed straight into the signal box ? A Jubilee backing out of St. Pancras did just that and took the concrete stop block into Dock Junction signal box (either that or the tender vaulted the stop block but it didn't do much for the box anyway). I think there was a recently published photo taken by Peter Townsend off a roof at Kings Cross Top Shed in one of the steam magazines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted December 20, 2013 Share Posted December 20, 2013 Thanks Adrian I quite like that idea Do I assume it would have had a buffer ? Yes, the St. Ives setup had a buffer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted December 20, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 20, 2013 Most of them had buffers from the track plans that I've looked at. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustytrev Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Hello, PS the small structure at the bottom right hand of the picture is a water tower Would this mean a locomotive without crew whilst watering was being carried out and therefore the reason for a trap/catch? A runaway in such a case would not reach a very high spead before running off the track as shown. trustytrev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted December 21, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2013 The short spur does make sense as somewhere to put locos for watering between workings. However a steam loco wouuld not be left unnattended in such circumstances but there woould still have to be trap points to protect the main line once the loco had been signalled into the spur. Perhaps there was regualr portion working into/out of this station with the spare loco stabled there ready to take the second portion out after the first portion had left. I presume that the little circle on the track side of the watar tower represents a water crane as those could be anywhere in relation to the tower. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 21, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2013 30 December 1960 my Father took a call at Albion St Fire Station to turn out the Sheepcote Lane Signal Box, which controlled the exit from Monument Lane shed. When they got there the top of the box was sitting on the tender of a loco which had gone off the end of the Neck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMay Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 here's a video of a catch point in operation showing how far a loco will go off-piste at shunting speed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePurplePrimer Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 OUCH ! I think I might also have a better idea of why interlocked signals can be handy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted February 4, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2014 there are also "drop in" catch points to prevent the runaway heading towards a running line, such as here on the seaforth branch in liverpool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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