A Borchester Market layout appreciation topic

[DLT]

If it is, it is news to me! I have pondered long and hard about the possibility of exhibiting Buckingham. Like most things, it is technically possible but the sheer amount of work involved to move it and the very high chance of doing serious damage to it mean that I have pretty much ruled it out. Last time we moved it, dozens of old brittle soldered joints broke in the track and the wiring and it took many months to sort out what wire went where and where we needed to repair a dry but otherwise sound looking joint.

 

So moving the layout and getting it up and running on a Friday before a show would be miraculous to pull off.

 

Tony

Quite so, one move every twenty-five years or so is probably quite enough!

Dave.

[kevinlms]

 

As for the "other" Buckingham layout, I would have thought that exhibiting a layout and giving it that name would be bound to lead to confusion. If I have built it, I would have called it "Buckingham North Western" or "Buckingham LNWR" but I can imagine a little smile on the faces of those who have built the layout as they discussed such matters.......

 

   

Surely not! Why should there be a restriction on using a layout name, just because its been used before - albeit a famous version? I agree that its good practice, of the new layout builders to clarify that it isn't THE one, if for no other reason to save themselves explaining each time.

Perhaps we should number the versions of popular layout names - how many Ashburton's have there been? What happens when one model is scrapped, does it become available again? Who keeps the central register of layout names?

 

Great thread about a classic layout, but lets be practical.

[t-b-g]

Surely not! Why should there be a restriction on using a layout name, just because its been used before - albeit a famous version? I agree that its good practice, of the new layout builders to clarify that it isn't THE one, if for no other reason to save themselves explaining each time.

Perhaps we should number the versions of popular layout names - how many Ashburton's have there been? What happens when one model is scrapped, does it become available again? Who keeps the central register of layout names?

 

Great thread about a classic layout, but lets be practical.

 

I didn't say what others should do, just what I would have done to avoid confusion.

 

If I was building a layout, either of a real or a fictional location which had been used before as a layout name (especially a really well known one) I would call mine something different.

 

I wouldn't want anybody to ever think that they couldn't build a model of a place just because somebody had done it before. It would be a sad day when people start registering layout names like trade marks.

 

Following the example, if I was going to build a model of Ashburton I would give it a name like "Edwardian Days at Ashburton" or suchlike.

 

It just needs a little imagination and thought.

 

Tony

[Combe Martin]

Refering to the above few posts about duplicate exhibition layout names, I once saw at the big Brighton show a few years ago, 2 N gauge layouts of Midford on the Somerset & Dorset line.  And they were next to each other too !   

[Loconuts]

I have a well thumbed copy of the Peco publication of the Buckingham Layout which is amongst a number of books I intend to sell as they are no longer any use to me.

 

If anyone wants it and can make a decent offer it is theirs.

 

Loconuts 

[t-b-g]

I have a well thumbed copy of the Peco publication of the Buckingham Layout which is amongst a number of books I intend to sell as they are no longer any use to me.

 

If anyone wants it and can make a decent offer it is theirs.

 

Loconuts 

 

That actually makes me feel quite sad!

 

A modeller with no further use for the Buckingham book.

 

For many folk, myself included, that book was the biggest single literary influence on my modelling for 40 plus years and it would be the last one from my collection that would go.

 

So I have a very well thumbed copy but I can thoroughly recommend that somebody without one in their collection makes the most of this opportunity as you don't see many around.

[DLT]

I could never part with mine.

[Loconuts]

That actually makes me feel quite sad!

 

A modeller with no further use for the Buckingham book.

 

For many folk, myself included, that book was the biggest single literary influence on my modelling for 40 plus years and it would be the last one from my collection that would go.

 

So I have a very well thumbed copy but I can thoroughly recommend that somebody without one in their collection makes the most of this opportunity as you don't see many around.

Yes it is quite sad but things change, I used the book to build Leighton Buzzard Mk1 as a 4mm GWR exhibition layout which was fun to operate.  A brilliant layout for someone to enter the exhibition scene or to progress from RTR to a specialised field.  It does not cost much to build, holds 4 to 5 complete trains and  allows time to build stock.  Could also be built as a British Narrow Gauge layout.

 

My favorite book is the Wild Swan 'Wantage Tramway' as our first house was along the route and at the time there were plenty of relics still standing although the line had been lifted.  That is not for sale.

 

The Buckingham Branch does not translate across the pond and is of no use to the American scene.

 

Loconuts

[t-b-g]

Yes it is quite sad but things change, I used the book to build Leighton Buzzard Mk1 as a 4mm GWR exhibition layout which was fun to operate.  A brilliant layout for someone to enter the exhibition scene or to progress from RTR to a specialised field.  It does not cost much to build, holds 4 to 5 complete trains and  allows time to build stock.  Could also be built as a British Narrow Gauge layout.

 

My favorite book is the Wild Swan 'Wantage Tramway' as our first house was along the route and at the time there were plenty of relics still standing although the line had been lifted.  That is not for sale.

 

The Buckingham Branch does not translate across the pond and is of no use to the American scene.

 

Loconuts

 

Going from modelling the GWR to American is but a small shift to the dark side.

 

Please nobody take that remark seriously. It is pure tongue in cheek mischief!

 

Best of luck with you American project and I hope your book finds a suitably appreciative new home.

 

Tony

[Loconuts]

Going from modelling the GWR to American is but a small shift to the dark side.

 

Please nobody take that remark seriously. It is pure tongue in cheek mischief!

 

Best of luck with you American project and I hope your book finds a suitably appreciative new home.

 

Tony

It was from the Midlands and The Black Country the dark side came from with Heavy Metal Music, not the Thames Valley.  So I think that would be the LMS guys and not the GWR ones.

 

Being a GWR man was better than being one of the softy Southern lot, Joke.

 

Loconuts

[60526]

Sometime ago I did say that I would keep those interested in BM updated with what is going on with this historic layout, well after months of working on everything other than BM down the Newhaven Club we have finally decided that we need to do something about the two points that are at the entrance to the BM goods yard. When we acquired the layout we knew that the rails were a bit thin in this area but got away with it by using locos that had all wheel pick-up such as the Bachmann class 20 and 24 for shunting, having said that the Hornby N2 and Comet chassis N2 that we use also work ok but there wheels must be touching the sleepers in places.

 

The point on the right is the entrance to the goods yard headshunt which all arrivals and departures come and go from. Some of the rail has already been removed; we had previously replaced this up to the board joint but decided to replace it again as part of the overall pointwork repairs.

 

You should be able to see from this photo the thinness of the rail, on the outside this was down to 0.9m, on the inside 1.2mm, it should be 2mm? You can also see where the break in the copperclad is. It looked like the gap was filled in with something thick first, possibly gloss paint / perhaps filler before weathering because it was nigh impossible to see the gap beforehand. Not all gaps in the copperclad are like this, in some case the copper has been removed by either a small saw or file from immediately inside the outer rail so from the outside your view line would not see it anyway.

 

Here is a close-up of an original point polarity switch, the wire in the middle moves with the point switch and makes contact with one of the wires that are soldered back to the copperclad and hence polarity to the relevant rail. Earlier we did have some problems with these contacts so to improve running we have added microswitches under the board to run in parallel with the wire switching for all the points around the station area that are controlled in this way.

 

??? Why is the far checkrail not at least in-line with the point crossing? The ballast is tea leaves, it is dirty but it totally looks the part, perhaps it's matured with age, it is now over 40 years old. Underlay is thick card.

 

So this is how it was left on Wednesday night, I have been able to retain some of the point crossing and blades, upon closer inspection of the other point rails these had also been filed down so were removed.

[31A]

They certainly look like very small section rails; were they deliberately so or have they worn down with years of track cleaning?

[glo41f]

It is great to learn that this marvellous old layout is being updated and renewed where necessary. Please keep us in the loop o the progress. Frank Dyer was a master of all things 00 and his layouts worked as they should. It would be fascinating to know wheter the rails had worn away through use or whether Frank made them that way.

 

Thank you for looking after it so well.

 

Regards

 

Martin Long

[60526]

I'm fairly certain that the track did not naturally wear down over the years, the board on the right has a ledge on it so that the left hand board can be supported on it, they are then pulled together by coachbolts. Both boards are 1" blockboard and have been re-used from the Borchester Town layout, but across the width of the boards there is some deformation with has cause the edge of the LH board to rise higher than the RH board, so I believe that the track was filed down to level it off, I also think that there must have been some misalignment of the track and that is possibly why the rail is thin across it's width. When the layout was in Caerphilly it had it's own garden shed, when not in use the layout was protected by window shutters, but I could imagine that this side of the board would see the majority of sunlight when they were open, perhaps this had something to do with it?

 

I can't remember posting this before but here is a photo of Franks track gauge requirements, it used to be pinned to the layout just above his workbench.

 

[60526]

The pointwork has been completed but I won't show any photos just yet, suffice to say that I shouldn't have tried to replace parts of the pointwork in place, it would have been easier to have replaced both points off of the layout. Also having fun with ballasting, from dried tea as per the original, what a messy job. We're really trying to match the texture of the original ballast but it is not turning out that easy. Can't be sure but there is what could be something like pollyfiller in some of the ballast.

[60526]

Time to give the Southwold 2015 show a plug since we will be attending on the 1st/2nd August. I shouldn't have posted those photos with the yard pointwork removed, it means that you have to show new photos of it being finished. One of the points has turned out ok but the main yard arrivals point which would be on the right hand side has been a bit of a nightmare to get right, the curve coming into that point always was quite tight, but in trying to pull up the check rail gap to restrict derailments it stops derailments but is causing problems with wheel back to fronts while keeping the gauge at 16.5mm. I think that another go is in order to widen the gauge on the curve slightly. It's amazing for the age of this layout what condition it actually is in. Ok we have done a fair bit of work on it but this yard pointwork is the only maintenance we have had to carry out on the track this time and that is only because it was warn out and too thin. Tonight apart from me testing out the GC fiddleyard with some success, the other lads were brightening up some of the tired foliage on the main station approach. Friday night looks like a couple of repairs to point levers on the main control panel, a check of the GN fiddleyard and a bit of work with the spray brush to blend a few things in. Back on Sunday morning to have a running session and break it all down next Wednesday night before loading up into a van on Thursday evening and then an early start at 7 from the south coast to enjoy the A27/A23/M23/M25/A12/A14 etc and it's a Friday, the later you leave it the more the M25 at least will become a carpark, lovely. About a week or so before an exhibition I have to take a look at the timetable to see what changes we need to make. We're going back to the 6 coach main sets from 5 and adding a buffet car to both sets, one being a rake of Mk1's the other for this show being Gresleys. One of the DMR K1's we use will be replaced by a weathered Hornby K1, the former has a problem with the front bogie and the paintwork needs a tidy up. The intention was to use a J6 properly for the first time but it's not quite right yet. This is an old Nu-cast kit, the solid metal chassis has been removed and replaced by the earlier J6 chassis etch that comes with the London Road Models J6, it is not right for the period but it is the effect that we are after at the moment. I never realised how narrow the firebox was on this model until I tried to fit a Mashima 14xx motor, it's currently got a small open framed 10xx motor, but to get the loco moving smoothly it just doesn't seem to have enough umph. The same goes for a J50 that we have been trying to get going, this does have a 14xx motor but for whatever reason and it isn't pick-ups, quartering or tight rods it's not moving properly

[glo41f]

I am delighted to learn that despite the distances and obstructions (do not forget the dragons as you pass into God's own county) that you will be at Southwold this year. I will be there both days with the GOG stand but I will be watching you as often as I can! I would like to take up your offer of seeing behind the scenes (earlier post) and I am sure us East Anglians will be inspired by the classic layout.

 

Looking forward to meeting you and the Borchester team.

 

Regards

 

Martin Long

[60526]

Martin, distance to take the layout has not been a problem so far, it's been to Blyth and Glasgow and performed well, we usually have a second van driver so cope ok. But "obstructions", from the South we have the lovely M25 car park to get past, on Friday it was stop/start from between Leatherhead/A3 clockwise round to the M40, and both ways from Enfield on the North side round to the tunnel/bridge. Unless the temperature outside is very cold, sitting in traffic doesn't affect the layout, but the M25 can be a bit of a joke at times hence why we are leaving very early next Friday. Gods own County and dragons, oh no, you can't mean Essex!!!!!!!!

A bit of an acceleration with repairs and TLC over the last Wednesday, Friday and today. We've all got a certain expertise and Ray Warner with Ian Forsyth has been giving the scenery and weathering a bit of an uplift so the station approach is looking slightly brighter. We've had to give up on some of the original trees, through age they have been beaten around a bit and damaged during transit. It's great that we can look back at the Model Railway 1980 magazine and see what it was like then.

The point at the entrance to the goods yard is now functioning properly, we would have liked to have put a slightly larger radius point here but the end of the point is very close to a board joint so it proved impractical. Not something I normally get involved with but I found myself repairing some of the buildings that are in the street scene over the Colliery line. We build a frame inside the van body for transporting the layout boards, coming back from Spalding one of wooden beams broke and dropped one board down onto these buildings, since these are card models these did not offer much resistance. The main station controllers are all from H&M with some clever Dyer electronics, the departures controller was causing a few problems late on at Spalding, initially we thought that it must be the wire card breaking up, but having found a way of getting the controller out of the main panel we could not see a problem here so it became a bit of a "Don't panic Mr Mannering" from Corp Jones. We had to drill out some rivets and look at it in more details. Well thoughts turned to the copper follower being the problem, no, the other side of this has a ball bearing that runs along a C shape brass section, we didn't see it initially but the brass 'C's had grooves cut in them, never seen this before. So in a moment of inspiration we drilled these 'C's out and turned then over and hey presto it now works ok. What we are going to do is put a 5 pin Din plug in series with each of the 3 controllers so that we can use a Gaugemaster roam about controller in case of further problems. As for the timetable, we are going back to the 6 coach express formation, in following the original timetable we found that a Gresley Pacific arriving in platform 1 would leave the last coach fouling the line coming out from the middle road where the diesel shunter would be sitting, so it could not get out to shunt the coaches. We are getting around this by moving the shunter out and into the carriage siding before the arrival, previously we had cut the train length to 5 coaches. We usually use two DMR K1's, both were showing signs of wear, one was dropped for Spalding, the other is now being dropped for Southwold, both being replaced by Hornby K1's (for the time being). Because both have a full set of screw coupling, vacuum and steam pipes on the front, they will not have a front tension lock bar but the timetable needs one of them to shunt in the goods yard both from the front an rear, partly because the goods yard pointwork is not totally proven we are going to introduce a second B'mann EE type 1 into the workings, for reliable running these models are ideal. We've the Wakefield show coming up in November and when we can get reliable running more steam will be coming back in the shape of a C12, J6, J50 and K2.

[glo41f]

Surely any fule know that God's own County is Suffolk! (Essex is a major aberration which happens to be stuck on the end of it!)

 

Notwithstanding that, I am greatly looking forward to seeing BM again in its rejuvenated form. I hope the trip north is a good one for you and the team. Southwold is always a good show and the folk there are very friendly. The beer is preety good too!

 

Martin

[60526]

Well Martin, my wife tells me that there is a very intelligent program on the telly called "The only way is Essex", it must be a special place so I thought that this must have the word God associated with it. I haven't heard anyone down here mention the word God in the same sentence as Sussex, perhaps it's "oh my god" when trying to drink Harveys bitter out of Lewis. It's strange, is it? whenever we go to exhibitions we always like to visit Churches and sample the holy water as you do. Father Forsyth has mentioned that we need to venture forth and try some Adnams, can't see that mentioned in the new or old testiment but I've been promised some at the BBQ on Saturday night.

[glo41f]

'Tis the very Nectar of life a true ambrosian drink. I have great faith that you will enjoy it and be back for more! (Not too much though as BM must be good for Sunday! ( I can particularly recommend Broadside if it is on offer).

 

Martin

[60526]

I mentioned Harvey's in Lewis, it should of course have been Lewes of course, but it's still not my favourite tipple.

My wife is still telling me that "The only way is Essex" is a very good program, but having seen a recent payment made to Specsavers I can understand. Off to Southwold we flew along the M23/M25 up to the tunnel, couple of minutes delay while they moved a tanker over to the nearside and then didn't spend much time in Essex but got caught out just north of Ipswich on the A12 by cattle being in the road, so after an enforced Police diversion and a trip through the rural countryside arrived at Carlton Coalville just before 11:00. This is where the East Anglian transport museum is and because a friend volunteers there we managed to get a look around, it is normally closed on Friday. I don't specifically have a deep interest in trams or trolley buses but I helped move London trolley 260 from Edmonton to CC back in the early 80's, we used a Scammell Highwayman for the tow, for those interested it used to be a Cory tanker and then a wrecker, it was dressed up as Showmans tractor last time I saw it.

Back from Southwold, very good exhibition, didn't try the Broadside but the Adnams Southwold was not bad with the Saturday night BBQ. The replacement pointwork in the fiddleyard worked ok, we had a slight problem with the two main stations being aligned properly and had a few derailments but in the end this mainly came down to wagon tension lock couplings being in a dropped position so that the bottom of the coupling hit the point rails and caused the derailment, not very good for virtually new models. The only downside was on the Sunday when it got very hot, the top vents in the hall were not working to open, it caused a problem with the release point from platform 2 and what is point 49 which is the main arrival point for going straight to the Colliery line and into the loco yard, eventually this turned out not to be the point but some connection behind the main control panel. We also had a few problems in the GN fyard with broken omega loops that are used to switch the points, the ex RAF solenoids that are used take no prisoners. The conclusion is that using nickel silver wire leads to fatigue and failure, also we need to consider resoldering old soldered joints to pre-empt future problems.

Mind you, we haven't had this problem before when using our own locos. I'm not suggesting that it is a co-incidence or that it was very hot, but a certain gent from somewhere next to the East Coast main north of Pboro but south of Grantham turned up with a few locos, of particular interest was a J6 and K2 of which similar Nu-cast models are currently in our workshop, but I wonder if models should have a RA value, I can't mention that they looked very nice models or that they ran very well because I would probably get into a solid v flexi chassis debate, but his J6 does have a portescap which seemed to be the idea motor/gearbox combination for this model. Here is a couple of photos taken in the GN fyard, ok the K2 is about to derail itself. I'll post a couple of photos later.

 

[TonyW1960]

Photos of BM from Southwold are included in this album:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/75514026@N03/albums/72157649004452418

 

I hope you find them interesting.

[St Enodoc]

Photos of BM from Southwold are included in this album:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/75514026@N03/albums/72157649004452418

 

I hope you find them interesting.

Tony, I like the picture of the buffer stops taken through the arch. Thanks for sharing these.

[roythebus]

Having had the pleasure of Frank Dyer's company at The Model Railway Club for a number of years, I make no excuses for repeating what I may have posted on other threads. Frank was a regular at the MRC in the late 1970s, early 1980s and was in on the discussions for what was to replace the original MRC OO layout, the Longridge, Brampton Sands and Calshot layout, built in the early 1960s and showing signs of wear.

 

Frank offered to draw a number of plans for us which I still have in my possession. We drew up a list of what the layout should contain, and we eventually chose the plan that was to become New Annington. The original plan was to quite a small scale, so Frank re-drew it larger (before the days when everyone had a photocopier) with immense detail on it, siding and loop lengths, radius of curves, signals, the lot, and a Borchester style fiddle yard! Frank offered to build the track for Dyers End, the branch terminus.

 

A few weeks later he rolled up at the MRC with an armful of track and points, all built to 16.2mm gauge. He explained that stock to BRMSB standards would happily run on it the difference being narrower flangeways on the points which gave a more realistic appearance. His track certainly worked without fault during the life of that layout. In fact one of the buildings, a country pub that had been on the LBSCR layout was deemed to be good enough to be used on New Annington.

 

Remember Frank was in the architecture business and would have used Perspex in architectural modelling, this may explain why he used that for his platforms. Frank certainly had an eye for detail, and this showed in his workmanship, achieving a visual and operational  standard that many of us could only dream of. the only thing that let Borchester down was the huge girder across the buffers on his stock, his version of the tension lock couplings, but as he pointed out, with the sharp radii he used he couldn't afford buffer locking in hidden sidings.

 

In his hidden sidings he used something called "the Bug" to shunt stock. This was a Kitmaster motor bogie just fitted with the bar across the buffers couplers, so it would never actuially couple to anything; it was only used to push stock out!

 

I've actually built another of Frank's "New Annington collection" layouts at home, though it's far from finished yet! I tried using DOOGAF-fine standards, but it doesn't work properly; I'm having to rebuild the pointwork to 16.2mm gauge to save pushing any more wheels out on their axles!

 

Does anyone know what happened to Frank's rolling stock? And yes, I remember his original layout at the 1962 Central Hall show; it was a roundy-roundy but never operated as such. I wish the present custodians of Borchester well and hope they get the layout back to the operating standards that Frank insisted on.

 

Edited to add that most of the plans Frank done for the MRC included a centre loco release road with a 3-way point and a ladder of diamond crossings and slips! The fiddle yards were also full of slips and 3 ways and a loco turntable or two.

Edited October 7, 2015 by roythebus