Kylebank

[Mark 37]

I had no intention of starting a topic about my sons layout/train set but I would like some input before I finally glue the track down.

 

The layout is a "U" shape and around 11' long x 2' wide with two small fiddle yards each end fitting a loco+4 carriages or loco and 9-12 wagons. Scenic points are Peco express points.

 

I've been building up materials over the last couple of years. Some good buys, some impulsive and some that probably won't suit but hay-ho its what we have so ill try adapt or sell as theirs not much hobby money these days.

 

The idea behind the layout is a small highland island platform with a siding or two. This is where your help is needed. I can't decide on one or two sidings (see images below). Their purpose will be to hold rolling stock on scene and possible for unloading goods like timber (purists look away now) or soldiers and the likes but I will try discourage this as I'm trying to teach him about modelling. Making trees, painting, adding scatter materials, etc, etc. But it is his layout with the addition of a couple of my locos.

 

On the left side of the images will have a higher level single track hidden behind an embankment of trees which will only be visable from certain vantage points. Well that's the plan as I've been asked by my son to incorperate a bridge somewhere that trains can run above the lower level. I hope to accomplish this at the left hand end of the boards (just off the bottom of the images below).

 

Although the pictures don't really show it the platform should be around the 3.5-4' mark. If I do a single siding with head shunt it will be about 4.5'. If I do the two sidings both are 35" (probably only 30 usable inches allowing for clearances) but could go another 6", but this will extend past the platform end and doesn't look as aesthetically pleasing.

 

Image one with one siding (less is more).

 

 

Image two with two sidings

 

 

I know there are lots of new layout topics recently but I'd like your vote for one or two sidings.

 

Thanks for looking in and have a great new year!

 

Mark

[Griffin Road]

My vote goes for two please !

 

Keep up the good work done so far .

 

M b

[Marcus 37]

Hi Mark

I take it from the name this is going to be another Scottish based layout so can't wait to see this develop. I would go for two sidings as it will give a bit more operating interest with more shunting opportunities. Hope this helps. KoLW started out as my sons layout but it gradually became "our" layout. Good for a bit of father and son bonding.

 

Regards

 

Marcus

[Mark 37]

Hi Marcus,

 

The name is a combination of two things. I'm originally from Clydebank and my sons middle name is Kyle.

 

Yes this is going to be a fictitious Scottish layout for all our Eastfield large logos although thier will be a mix of BR Blue 26, LL 37's, LL 47's, Scotrail livery 47, RF red stripe 37, Whoosh 158, Barbie 158, orange 156. The liveries I grew up with.

 

Since my son was born I decided to pick up liveries he liked or would see (but they have changed so quickly), RES 47, First GBRF 66, EWS 66, Freightliner 66, Thunderbird 57. To name a few. Although most are single livery examples, they have all either ran in Scotland or been based here, (my only criteria for buying locos).

 

As I said above I've been gathering materials for a while but some wont suit this latest plan (but will need to be used because there are bigger priorities now). The layout has been redesigned for nearly every room in the house from a shunting plank to 13'x12' roundy, roundy.

 

We have quite a few Knightwing kits for a TMD so I decided to turn one of the fiddle yards into a small TMD. In doing so its going to give us a small shunting plank that will still hold two 3 coach locos. (See imager below).

 

I know the tracks are parallel to the bored edge but it was only a fiddle yard that's been converted to use some kits and buildings we already have. Not the best image, its been cleaned up a bit and fully wired but here it is.

 

 

All the best,

 

Mark

 

I'll try and remember to get a more updated image once I've moved all the tools that are sitting on it.

[Mark 37]

Ok, I've gone for two sidings. Pic below.

 

 

Just waiting for the wife to come home from work to watch the kids then I can cut out the river.

 

If I can keep to my plan I hope to have this section wired by Sunday night, then we can play trains all next week. I mean test track and wiring. Then the wee man can get stuck in with a bit of track painting.

 

Mark

[Gordon A]

I suggest that you need a larger gap between the sidings and the loop line.

I think there should be a minimum distance of 15 feet between a running line and sidings???

Sidings were usually provided to load and offload goods. Do you think you have enough space for vehicles to park alongside wagons?

Road access to the sidings?

 

Gordon A

Bristol

[Mark 37]

Some good points raised Gordon.

 

Just ran upstairs to check things out. I knew a full width road at the narrowest point (board edge to closest edge of siding) would not be possible (scale 36', 62' at the end of sidings). My idea was to have the road run along front with half disappearing off board but joining again further along, my compromise for having two sidings.

 

You raise another valid point about running lines and sidings. Rail to rail (narrowest point again) is a scale 6.5'. Again a compromise to have two sidings and partial road. Two Mk3's will pass each other with a 3' gap.

 

I laid the sidings to follow the flow of the express points. I could push the sidings out a little more but would have to go back to plan A of one siding.

 

I'll mull this over tonight.

 

Anymore thoughts will be gladly received.

 

Regards,

 

Mark

[Mark 37]

Well after a couple of hours and watching a good movie I had to change the sidings. Armed with Gordon's info I've reverted back to one siding.

 

 

I now have a scale 11' at the point opening up to 16' at the apex of the loop. I think you will agree the track flows and looks a lot more prototypical. It has also given me a further 6' from bored edge to track at the narrowest point.

 

Regards,

 

Mark

[MRDBLUE17]

Hi Mark,

 

Glad to see you have been busy layout building. I like the TMD idea at the fiddle yard as you can actually run a new loco for return services and so on. The layout looks good through the station area. I like the flow in that last shot and just a suggestion you could now add a right hand point in the siding and run a second siding off to gently curve with the alignment you have as that could look good. You can still model a road curving off board at this end and just have the yard running to the board edge so you still have room

For vehicles loading etc from the rail wagons could look good and be easy for the wee un to play too. Hopefully see you at Glasgow this year?

 

All the best

Mark

[Mark 37]

Good to hear from you Mark. How's the wee one?

 

Yes at last some track on wood! There has been so many things that have got in the way but finally getting somewhere.

 

The second siding would add more in regards to operational potential but I don't happen to have another right hand express point at the moment and now I have my mojo I don't want to stop. lol

 

The unloading siding I planned to model as a gravel area with chain link fencing around it. Something like the oil storage terminal just short of Fort William, still to fully research this but it was an idea I had although it will be timber, steel and ballast that will be off loaded.

 

I definatly need a road at the front for the wee yin to play with the trucks and busses he has been given by family members. Unfortunately its a bit of an eclectic collection because they range from 1980's-2010ish if not a a bigger gap than that (bless them).

 

The TMD, that's exactly my thinking and it will allow Braeden to display a few locos, that's what I told him but it will actually cut down on his handling them so potentially less accidents to occur. I am toying with the idea of hiding the far left siding. Possibly with a wall is disguising it as a long shed.

 

I have my fingers crossed for Glasgow but I have an awful expensive fix for the motorbike so the wife's put a cosh on all spending relating to model railways until we see what the final bill will be.

 

Regards,

 

Mark

[Mark 37]

Well, were not fully wire up yet. I still have the far fiddle yard to lay. I have however soldered all droppers on the main board and retro fitted a river bed at the far right as per my sons request to fit one in.

 

Braedens check list.

 

•River, check

•TMD, check

•Bridges, accommodated

•Tunnels, planned for high level

•DCC & DC running, DCC low level check. DC high level for our unconverted DMU fleet, accommodated

•Lighting, TMD, street, station, buildings. All planned

•Road, planned

 

Things that still need some thought...

 

•Small village/edge of village. I'd like to incorperate Metcalfes village store with a little alteration. (Already purchased)

•Our row of houses to be modelled (sons request)

•How to incorporate high level rail over bridge into surrounding scenery.

•Provision for family gifts. Busses, fire engines, lorries....basically lots of vehicles.

•a remote uncoupling system for tension lock couplers that won't look daft. I know Hornby have a system but would like to investigate others, (any suggestions???) because Hornby requires rather over scale ramps with surface mount point motors which will prove hard to disguise.

 

My problem is that I like to model, the boy likes to play. How to combine both??? That's the big question that I'm sure lots of parents have faced.

 

Any suggestions, thoughts are welcome.

 

Regards,

 

Mark

[Mark 37]

Hello all,

 

Just a small update because I'm still at track laying. I hadn't been feeling to great over the last few weeks and when I did I had some tables for my mum to recondition (still working on them).

 

Anyway, during this time I thought about a second siding. It was good advise so I bit the bullet and ordered another point.

 

I got the track glued down yesterday and wired for basic power today (still to be tested).

 

Here's the first picture. Note how close together the track looks in this first photo. I'm still using my camera phone for pics. I don't see the need to use the DSLR just now because theirs no colour to show, and I've around a thousand images to transfer onto the computer.

 

 

And a picture from the other end.

 

 

I've managed to retain about 28" of useable siding.

 

Next job is to finalise the fiddle yards track plan and get it glued down.

 

All your feedback will be welcomed as always.

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

[Mark 37]

Forgot I took this pic of 37401 on test duties on the TMD board.

 

 

Still to sand down the join of the backscene boards. At the moment and for the foreseeable future our only sound 37.

 

If I'm honest, I'm itching to line up our class 37 fleet. Not that we have that many of them maybe 6 or 7 but would you believe I can't actually remember. Lol

 

Mark

[Marcus 37]

Layouts coming along really nicely Mark. Trackworks looking good with nice flowing curvature. By the way, I'm itching for you to line up your 37's.

 

Regards

 

Marcus

[Mark 37]

Hi Marcus,

 

I think I'll need to do the line up when the wife's out. I used to keep telling her the liveries on the local trains have changed again so I'll need to buy another so our boy will recognise them. She will have a nice surprise when she see's they are nearly all large logo with terriers on the side. Hehehe.

 

Well I think I've settled or have had to settle on the fiddle yard track plan. I'm about 6" short of what I would call ideal but I have to compromise.

 

As more pictures join the thread you may notice the backscene bored are a little wavy. They were cut by B&Q and the initial plan for them was to join both ends of the "u" so we would have a roundy, roundy but they were that bad they became the backscene.

 

Regards,

 

Mark

[Mark 37]

Hello all,

 

I'm in need of some help again.

 

Hopefully in the next week we should have all track glued and wired ready for testing so I'm starting to think about signals and trunking. I'd love to use 2 or 3 aspects but I know semiphores is the way to go.

 

This is where I could do with help.

 

1, what semiphores do I need for the station and sidings and where should I situate them?

 

2, I know there are GWR, LMS, round, square, solid and lattice style of posts. Can you guide me to the correct choice?

 

3, would a box of ratio signals cover my needs?

 

Thank you for looking in, and for any light you can shed on this subject.

 

Regards,

 

Mark

[Marcus 37]

Lattice type is the best for Highland type layouts. Take a look at my recent layout photos as I've just done all the signals. They are Ratio LNER lattice post. My advice with these kits is take your time with them and then you will get some good results. You can make about 4 signals from each kit. I used 3 kits on my layout. I think one kit was around the £9.00 mark.

For the sidings you will need ground position disc signals or dolly's as we call them on the railway. Positions of signals will depend on several things such as wether your platforms will be bi- directional or not. If so you will need junction signals at either end of the station.

Let me have a look at your track plan and I'll try work out what signals you need. Just one thing is your station on a signal or double track line?

 

Regards

 

Marcus

[Marcus 37]

Hi Mark

This is what you'll typically get out of one kit.

Regards

Marcus

[Mark 37]

Marcus,

 

Thanks for posting.

 

I've Ian Futers books but they don't really narrow it down. It basically lists every type of post that existed on Scottish networks.

 

The station is fed by a single line.

 

By directional could be a good idea because I'm sure my boy will make a few mistakes with route planning/driving untill he's become familiar with the way things work.

 

Regards,

 

Mark

[Marcus 37]

Hi Mark

Can you post a rough track plan. Doesn't have to be Anyrail or anything like that. Just a hand drawn one will do.

Cheers

Marcus

[Mark 37]

I'll try get that done over the weekend. Thanks for your help again.

 

Mark

[Mark 37]

Well the track plan didn't take that long. It's not exact but it does convey what's in the photos.

 

 

I'm not really worried about signalling the wee depot.

 

I've not dismissed making this quite modern in appearance. There are are lots of projects that could involve Braeden and he would love his more colourful liveries (not LL, ) displayed in that setting.

 

Mark

[Marcus 37]

Hi Mark

I've done a rough sketch below to show a possible signalling scenario. Sorry I had to take a picture of it on my iPad as my laptops packed up so I can't use the scanner. Hope it makes sense I've added arrows by the signals to show the direction of travel they apply to.

 

 

 

 

Here are an explanation of the signals:

 

1. Up Direction junction signal with associated ground signal - This will signal trains running in the up direction into either the up or down platforms. The higher signal on the gantry will be the left hand one as I am assuming the up direction line which is straight would have the higher line speed.

The associated ground signal would allow a driver to pass the main aspect at danger and allow access towards the sidings. On ground disc signal 7 the bottom disc would also need to be cleared to access the siding. Stacks of ground signals read top to bottom for routes left to right.

 

2. Platform starter signal for trains running in the down direction through the up platform

 

3. Platform starter signal for trains running in the down direction through the down platform

 

4. Platform starter signal for trains running in the up direction through the up platform

 

5. Platform starter signal for trains running in the up direction through the down platform

 

6. Down direction junction signal. Again assuming the higher line speed is through the up platform then this time the right hand signal on the gantry will be higher.

 

7. Double stack ground signal - this signal is optional. If used it would allow the following:

 

- loco coming out of siding can stop behind this and with the top disc cleared proceed in the down direction towards signal 5. If this signal was not provided the loco would have to proceed to beyond signal 1 to perform this move.

 

- loco arriving in the down direction would be able to stop behind this signal and with the bottom disc cleared would be able to set back into the siding. Again if this signal was not provided it would have to carry on behind signal one.

 

8. Black & yellow ground disc signal - now I'm not sure if they had these in Scotland but I've certainly seen them on most regions when I'm out and about. These signals when in the on position (horizontal) allow a train to shunt as much as it wants between the sidings and the head shunt. When it is cleared (diagonal) it will give a route from the sidings to the mainline. The reason behind these signals is so the signaller doesn't have to keep clearing the route every time a train shunts in the sidings. There is one of these at the Steel Works end of Crewe ETD that serves this exact purpose.

 

Other possible things to consider would be are the platforms permissive. If you intend to engine swaps in the platform then you will need "calling on" arms on the junction signal. These are smaller slimmer arms under the main arms. These allow a train to pass the main aspect under caution to allow access to the occupied platform.

 

Also at the extremities of the layout you could have just normal single post signals acting as section signals. All shunts would be carried out with in the confines of these signals. For a bit of interest towards the depot if you imagined there was a signal box by the depot you could put the distant signal for this imaginary box on the same post as the section signal.

 

I hope this is useful and if you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.

 

Regards

 

Marcus

[Mark 37]

Marcus,

 

That's a lot more signalling than I expected but very well described. It's been hard finding photographic examples of infrastructure as most photographers concentrate on the locos. Some that I have found have proven hard to decipher. Looks like I've got a lot of planing and thinking to do.

 

I may drop the bidirectional running because it is over complicating the scene I'm try to depict. I'm sorry to have put you to all the trouble of working that all out. I will also have to have a long think about how to go about the construction of these and if its worth trying to mechanise them, that's how I get my kicks in the hobby.

 

I've also been reminded recently of an automatic uncoupler for tension locks.

 

I hope to get an hour later on today but the six nations kick off today.

 

Thanks for now,

 

Mark

[Marcus 37]

No problem Mark. If you want single direction running only just delete signals 2 and 5 and turn the junction brackets into single signals. Ground disc signal 7 can be removed but it depends if you want to come out of the siding and then attach to a train in the platform or vice versa. If so you will need to keep it. If you do do this, as signal 5 has been removed you will need a limit of shunt board to prevent unauthorised movements back out onto the main line. The only other thing is are you intending on doing run rounds in the station as with the lack of the junction signals you will need some additional ground signals to control this movements. Sorry if this is getting a bit confusing.

Cheers

Marcus