Peak 45015

[mervyn]

An Alco engined 45.........????

[Nightstar]

No. 

 

 

India has locomotives built in England that got reversed engineered. India went on to build several thousand copies. They did the same with the Alco engines from the USA. We over here had considered India a source of parts for Alcos. But the issues with importing the parts and the QC concerns killed the idea.

 

 

Russia built copies of Baldwin engines and was looked at as a source for parts as well. 

 

 

I'm giving examples guys. 

 

 

I would look for a diesel engine from Russia or Ukraine that is similar to the Peak's Sulzer and use that as the power plant if I could not find a Sulzer to use in the rebuild.

 

At the time of obtaining a complete engine I would personally try to buy as many spare parts as well. 

 

 

This is just a strategic plan incase of no success with finding a Sulzer or EE engine of suitable type.

 

 

If you repower Peak 45015 and make her stand out, Then you have a little better chance of drawing attention to the project and to a-one-of-a kind Peak. This being a good thing to drum up support and more money. 

 

Robert

Edited March 14, 2015 by Nightstar

[russ p]

I don't think its the actual power unit that the lack of spares is affecting. There are still 47s about with very similar power units. The main issue as I sent it is that there are not many electrical spares as 45s have a rare 220v system

[25901]

I don't think its the actual power unit that the lack of spares is affecting. There are still 47s about with very similar power units. The main issue as I sent it is that there are not many electrical spares as 45s have a rare 220v system

 

Take one 47 power unit and down rate it, afterall they did it to the 26's, most of them have had down rated ex25/27 units fitted, FACT! the spare unit for 25901 came out of 26032 and it's a "B" unit

If you have to rewire any electrics it really doesn't matter be it 110 or 220 volts, just means running spares will be difficult.

 

The first and main issues is the ownership and location. If it is removed from site for scrapping then any options can then be taken if the scrapman is open to any deals and a detailed inspection.

In other words, wait and see. We can all post our views on here but at the end of the day it doesn't help 45015 at the momment

[KCR]

(my bold)

 

This is like Dragons Den on acid.

 

There aren't the funds or apparent thirst to even sheet the hapless thing over.

 

To certify it for mainline operation would probably quadruple the cost of the restoration.  For a market that might not even exist.

 

 

In the words of Duncan Bannatyne - Amoot!

Whoever did it would need a healthy bank balance and a lot of love for Class 45 diesels.

 

but stranger things have happened, Galatea has raised steam, someones making a baby deltic from a 37, I'm in no position to do it myself but I'd go bet on someone else doing it.

[Bert Cheese]

The thing is obviously as rotten as a pear though, the costs of bodywork restoration would probably outweigh the current scrap value before any thoughts of mechanical restoration could be considered.

 

That aside, the lack of Crompton Parkinson electrical spares makes a non starter of a genuine restoration too, cobbling bits of Class 47 or whatever in would involve an unrealistic amount of work for any preservation group and would be a thankless task anyway as the result would be viewed as a lash up by most enthusiasts.

As for complete re-engineering with a view to mainline use...surely the 16 wheel chassis would not be accepted or welcome for such use now?

 

The focus on 45015 only really started when 50040 was finally scrapped a few years ago anyway...It's getting boring now so lets slice the thing up and start a new thread for 25244

Edited March 14, 2015 by Bert Cheese

[Guest]

Regarding the 16 wheeled chassis on the mainline...didn't a Class 40 work a Railtour a few months or so ago?

Regards,
Matt

[Bert Cheese]

Regarding the 16 wheeled chassis on the mainline...didn't a Class 40 work a Railtour a few months or so ago?

 

Regards,

Matt

Indeed 40145 gets out and about, as did 46035 and 45112 in the not too distant past.

They are occassional railtour trips though, some of the ideas mooted above seem to imply regular commercial use to earn revenue...personally I can't see many takers for such a machine.

[25901]

Indeed 40145 gets out and about, as did 46035 and 45112 in the not too distant past.

They are occassional railtour trips though, some of the ideas mooted above seem to imply regular commercial use to earn revenue...personally I can't see many takers for such a machine.

 

And if you believe the gossip from Barrow Hill, 40013 soon

[Nightstar]

I find it hard to believe that a properly rebuilt/Re-engineered Peak fitted with electric train supply could not find regular work on the mainline either as excursion power or commerical traffic. 

 

Do they not sometimes press preserved diesels into mainline service in Australia??? How many times has GM36 been spotted on freight traffic despite being 50 years old. 

 

Robert

[Dava]

With already preserved 2 x 44, 11 x 45, & 3x 46, what is the need to save this one?

 

If anyone wanted it, it would have happened. Only 7 x 40s preserved for comparison.

 

Dava

['CHARD]

I find it hard to believe that a properly rebuilt/Re-engineered Peak fitted with electric train supply could not find regular work on the mainline either as excursion power or commerical traffic. 

 

There's not a franchisee in this country that could get it onto their safety case for commercial traffic, nor would want to.  The track access charges would be the first reason, then driver traction knowledge and everything else pushing up the cost.  And as a one-off it's absolutely pregnant with risk.  So pregnant in fact it looks like octuplets on the scan.

 

For peripheral and niche needs like this, you have to go to places like the Fife Circle, Norfolk branches and Cumbrian Coast.  Short term cover workings where the route availability dictates axle loads of a 37, or 47 at a push, and reliability of the 67s is even suspect - a class that's barely been run in.  Fife Circle goes over to DMU soon, just to prove the rule.

 

This is absolutely and utterly ludicrous.  The railway needs more uniformity, of speed, reliability, braking distance, operating simplicity and so on.  Not less.

[Nightstar]

Well, You guys are a tiny bit more stringent on what is allowed to work on the mainlines. Over here we have similar issues with mainline running. But diesels are generally easier to get on the main if they have a good record of not breaking or blowing up while on the main.

 

Damn, Just put the Peak on a barge and send it over here. All kidding aside, What is left that could be salvaged for the other 11 Peaks??? What parts are urgently needed right now by the owners of Peaks on here???

 

Robert

Edited March 15, 2015 by Nightstar

[Londontram]

 

 

The focus on 45015 only really started when 50040 was finally scrapped a few years ago anyway...It's getting boring now so lets slice the thing up and start a new thread for 25244

Well said that man.

[KCR]

where do we send our donations to pay for this scrapping effort?

 

I'm sure there's actually money to be made from offering to let people pay to cut it up, scrap man for a fiver day.

[Mad_Hatter]

The thing is as I was told one day that it isn't the cost of buying the item, it is the cost restoring it which people forget about which can be far more than the perches price and that was over wagons so you will need a very big bank balance to do anything with this engine. The ex GWR K22 coach which is more or less buffered up to it will cost enough to restore, with the body frames needing to be done but this will be cheap against this engine. 

[chris p bacon]

I think the Battlefield made the wrong decision in allowing this locomotive to be placed there in the first place, I doubt the owner was able to give them a fully costed repair plan (if he had one at all) and it was inevitable that this Peak was never going to run again. Maybe it was the rent that was attractive to them?

They've now ended up with an eyesore for joe public which is where the main income of preserved railways comes from, and so the quicker they divest themselves of this, the better it would be for them.

[pheaton]

Generally locomotives are stored rent free under a restoration agreement, they then run for a period of time for free to make up for the resources used during the restoration, its not quite as simple as it sounds when it comes to a costed repair plan, as things inevitably occur during restoration or the first few days of running which can skew any plan wildly. Plus things happen during the owners life that might influence it.........

 

its never as simple as buying a loco and thinking you can go straight into restoration and operation....

 

what parts are urgently needed for the other peaks that are still on 45015....

 

bogies

traction motors

brake cylinders

springs

grills

pipework and fittings

power controllers

window frames

engine room roof section 

crankcase doors from the engine

engine block is probably salvageable

crankcase is probably salvageable

generator could in theory be overhauled once the asbestos is removed

i do believe the exhauster is still present (something unique to 45s)

radiator fan (again unique to 45s)

radiator fan frame

radiator frame

some of the brake valves may still be present in the nose

 

 

so its a carcass yes but plenty of pickings for the vultures!!!!

Edited March 18, 2015 by pheaton

[sandra]

I know nothing about this locomotive but it surprises me that some Railway Enthusiasts are happily proposing, indeed urging, that a fifty year old diesel locomotive be scrapped. Whilst it may seem an improbable restoration project now we do not know what the position will be in 10 or 20 years time and once the machine is scrapped it will be gone forever and there will be one less Peak extant. There have been lots of steam restoration projects over the years which seemed unlikely to succeed and were subject to criticism at the time and yet against the odds, they succeeded.

 

I think that the problem is that heritage diesels do not at present have a great attraction to the general public. If they go to a preserved railway they expect to see a steam locomotive. However that may not always be the case and heritage diesel locomotives may become as desirable to the general public as steam locomotives are now. Therefore I am against the destruction of any main line diesel locomotives.

 

Sandra

[KCR]

I know nothing about this locomotive but it surprises me that some Railway Enthusiasts are happily proposing, indeed urging, that a fifty year old diesel locomotive be scrapped. Whilst it may seem an improbable restoration project now we do not know what the position will be in 10 or 20 years time and once the machine is scrapped it will be gone forever and there will be one less Peak extant. There have been lots of steam restoration projects over the years which seemed unlikely to succeed and were subject to criticism at the time and yet against the odds, they succeeded.

 

I think that the problem is that heritage diesels do not at present have a great attraction to the general public. If they go to a preserved railway they expect to see a steam locomotive. However that may not always be the case and heritage diesel locomotives may become as desirable to the general public as steam locomotives are now. Therefore I am against the destruction of any main line diesel locomotives.

 

Sandra

but there is a historical arguement in both cases, it's been longer in actual fact since we saw a peak being cut up than we've been able to see one run.

 

We are railway enthusiasts, but I'm also a bit of a scrap enthusiast, I'd like to think there's others out there to, are we to be denied out historic recreation of something being scrapped?

[chris p bacon]

Generally locomotives are stored rent free under a restoration agreement, they then run for a period of time for free to make up for the resources used during the restoration, its not quite as simple as it sounds when it comes to a costed repair plan, as things inevitably occur during restoration or the first few days of running which can skew any plan wildly. Plus things happen during the owners life that might influence it.........

 

its never as simple as buying a loco and thinking you can go straight into restoration and operation....

Ok while I get what you say I would personally not attempt to repair a 50 year old locomotive without some money behind me, in the case of this one probably a couple of hundred thousand. I still think the Battlefield were a bit naive in allowing it on to the railway without some proof that there was some labour and money behind its repair

 

As for a costed plan, I build houses for a living and there are many variables and no such thing as a fixed quote, the guys working for me are subbies on day rate but before I start I think about how much money I need and when and I do a budget sheet, as an example a pair of 4 bed houses came in within £250 of projected cost which was £480,000. Ok you may say you can't be that precise but it has to better than sticking a finger in the air and hoping, which it looks like has happened.

['CHARD]

I know nothing about this locomotive but it surprises me that some Railway Enthusiasts are happily proposing, indeed urging, that a fifty year old diesel locomotive be scrapped. Whilst it may seem an improbable restoration project now we do not know what the position will be in 10 or 20 years time and once the machine is scrapped it will be gone forever and there will be one less Peak extant. There have been lots of steam restoration projects over the years which seemed unlikely to succeed and were subject to criticism at the time and yet against the odds, they succeeded.

 

I think that the problem is that heritage diesels do not at present have a great attraction to the general public. If they go to a preserved railway they expect to see a steam locomotive. However that may not always be the case and heritage diesel locomotives may become as desirable to the general public as steam locomotives are now. Therefore I am against the destruction of any main line diesel locomotives.

 

Sandra

 

LOL.  What makes you think for a minute we're all railway enthusiasts! 

 

By your own admission, you know nothing about this locomotive, yet you are against the destruction of any main line diesel locomotives, which really puzzles me.  There are a number of Peaks in preservation, several of them operating, so the opportunity exists for interested parties to experience one if they so desire. 

 

As diesels slip further from the collective memory of society, do we really believe that more people will be interested in them?  Or will they, like modern art, remain an acquired taste or the preserve of basically the two generations that enjoyed the main line diesel's golden age, which is realistically a decade in the past already.  Personally, I could see the affection for diesels dying out with those who travelled behind, drove, maintained and photographed them.  And I don't foresee the same fate befalling steam.

[pheaton]

I know nothing about this locomotive but it surprises me that some Railway Enthusiasts are happily proposing, indeed urging, that a fifty year old diesel locomotive be scrapped. Whilst it may seem an improbable restoration project now we do not know what the position will be in 10 or 20 years time and once the machine is scrapped it will be gone forever and there will be one less Peak extant. There have been lots of steam restoration projects over the years which seemed unlikely to succeed and were subject to criticism at the time and yet against the odds, they succeeded.

 

I think that the problem is that heritage diesels do not at present have a great attraction to the general public. If they go to a preserved railway they expect to see a steam locomotive. However that may not always be the case and heritage diesel locomotives may become as desirable to the general public as steam locomotives are now. Therefore I am against the destruction of any main line diesel locomotives.

 

Sandra

Steam locomotives compared to a diesel are very primitive forms of engineering.....there's nothing on a steam locomotive that cannot be re-cast and then machined.....

 

However if i want 45149s load regulator rebuilt or the impeller of the exhauster rebuilt, or even the AVR repaired there are very few places that can do that....the person i have had repair 45149s avr is in his late 60s (and he is the only person i would trust to do the job) and after him its the original manufacturer (brush).....now im lucky on 45149 as its solid state avr.....on 26043 its brown bovari rotary AVR and when that fails its not repairable! so its a new one....how much is a new one.....circa 3k do i have 3k no so while 26043 isnt running its not earning money and then starts to deteriorate..... thats before we look at tyres....and the tyres on 45015 are not far from scrap size......to replace the tyres on 26043 the quote was 24k thats excluding VAT by the way! how much on a peak......well it has 16 wheels instead of 8......so im sure you can do the maths there!!!

 

expect to see more diesel locomotives go the way of 45015 as parts become more scarce or parts become more expensive to replace...everyone is against the destruction of mainline diesels but where do you draw the line......

 

Finally diesels earn far less than a steam locomotive in terms of running so more fund raising is required and that's a lot slower to gather when your not operational!

 

A diesel loco becomes expired when there are no parts or no money......which ever comes first!

 

Finally chris.......building houses you know how much its going to cost.....i have to take 4 radiators for 26043 to be repaired.....that's either going to cost £400 or £800! Most other parts you hand over to the engineering firm and they give you a quote.....after they have taken it apart! Nothing has a price list on a preserved diesel!

Edited March 18, 2015 by pheaton

[chris p bacon]

 

 

Finally chris.......building houses you know how much its going to cost

Good post, I can appreciate what the costs are which is why I think it better to break 45015 for scrap & spares.

 

The above bit I pasted........trust me you really don't know when you start just what it is going to cost.

 

I have a planning application in at present to convert a shop/office to house, the application is actually the renewal of an existing one where all details with planner & conservation officer where agreed beforehand, the original application went through with no problems, now we come to renew the conservation officer has changed his mind and wants a different look to the frontage the aditional extra cost to the project is circa £12,000 (glass mainly) this would be fine if the sale price was going to be in the region of £500,000 but it isn't it's more like £170,000, and in that figure is the purchase cost of the office, materials, labour and profit. . .

[25901]

For the record these are not my pics and were sent to me to do what I wanted with, don't know how or when as the person was really in the wrong but as they say every picture tells a story