Roco 2014 Catalogue- S160 in H0

[47137]

Quick question about the Roco S-160, just as a matter of interest. Where is it manufactured?  The EE shunter and all other Roco stock I've got (2 other shunters, Kof III and 0-6-0 80 and wagons) are all made  in Austria, but mainly second hand via e-bay etc so go back a bit.

"MADE IN EU" marked on the box. No marking under the model except "Roco".

 

- Richard.

[jjb1970]

European HO is the elephant in the room when we see arguments about how models couldn't be made in Europe. Yes, some European HO models are a lot more expensive than OO but some of them aren't and the price differential isn't what it once was.

[Horsetan]

European HO is the elephant in the room when we see arguments about how models couldn't be made in Europe. Yes, some European HO models are a lot more expensive than OO but some of them aren't and the price differential isn't what it once was.

 

....and the spares availability is pretty good, as Roco / Fleischmann provide an online ordering service. Unlike British brands, you can even buy bodies or bits of bodies.

[47137]

European HO is the elephant in the room when we see arguments about how models couldn't be made in Europe. Yes, some European HO models are a lot more expensive than OO but some of them aren't and the price differential isn't what it once was.

My Mehano class 66 was made in Europe too, I'll make a guess at Slovenia but the box is in the loft made in China. The 66 cost me around £110 plus £12 postage from Germany, which compares well with the latest Hornby and so on - and it's a better-looking model (to me!)

 

During my drawbar tests, the rear buffer beam pulled away off my Chinese-built Heljan 05. The Roco and Mehano engines stayed together, but ...

 

....and the spares availability is pretty good, as Roco / Fleischmann provide an online ordering service. Unlike British brands, you can even buy bodies or bits of bodies.

Yes it is. When I stood up under the layout, sending my Roco EE shunter into orbit, I got a pair of side rod assemblies with cranks within ten days or so, and the price was most reasonable - the emphasis seems to be on keeping your model running rather than screwing you the way (say) the car industry does.

 

The S160 seems to be very well made indeed, but going under the layout is now not allowed when trains are on top.

 

- Richard.

[Horsetan]

....I got a pair of side rod assemblies with cranks within ten days or so, and the price was most reasonable - the emphasis seems to be on keeping your model running rather than screwing you....

 

I bought some parts to convert a DR 01.5 to one of the preserved ones.Then forgot that the order should have included a coal-bunker tender top, since the Austrians converted 01.533 to burn coal 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 

 

 All engines tested cold. I want to think they will do better if warmed up, but in every case the drawbar pull achieved is just a tad less than the pull which initiates a static slide backwards along the track...

 What you may find is that some of the models may go on to improve tractively, if they have not yet had the running to get the contact area on the tyres completely polished up against the rails. I have found Bachmann's product very variable in this respect, in the most extreme cases needing several hours of running to reach their maximum value.

 

European HO is the elephant in the room when we see arguments about how models couldn't be made in Europe. Yes, some European HO models are a lot more expensive than OO but some of them aren't and the price differential isn't what it once was.

 But this is the result of a long term 'virtuous circle' process, where much higher standards in design and manufacturing continuously developed over something like seventy years have led to the necessary refined capability being available in European factories. These manufacturers will have a wealth of knowhow and skill among their experienced staff to produce the efficiencies in design and manufacture required to stay competitive vs out-sourced manufacturing. (I might suggest this could be afforded in HO because there was a significantly larger customer base than for UK OO.)

 

There simply isn't that knowledge in UK OO where indigenous improvment in this sector really ended in the early 1960s with Triang thereafter buying in 'better' technique from the likes of Fleischmann and Roco (and typically then degrading it) and the investment to bring a workforce up the curve would be prohibitive. And if it was tried in the UK, as fast as you trained people I promise you they would be poached off, left, right and centre by other businesses unwilling to invest in proper staff development despite being desperate for the skills.

[adb968008]

I bought some parts to convert a DR 01.5 to one of the preserved ones.Then forgot that the order should have included a coal-bunker tender top, since the Austrians converted 01.533 to burn coal 

 

 

roco 63271 OGEG 01.533 is this not the one you are trying to model ?

[Horsetan]

roco 63271 OGEG 01.533 is this not the one you are trying to model ?

 

Yes, but I didn't have that one to start with.

 

What I had was 01.0525-4, quite cheap from eBay, so I thought why go and buy a whole new engine when I only need to change a couple of parts to make it into the one I really wanted?

[jjb1970]

 But this is the result of a long term 'virtuous circle' process, where much higher standards in design and manufacturing continuously developed over something like seventy years have led to the necessary refined capability being available in European factories. These manufacturers will have a wealth of knowhow and skill among their experienced staff to produce the efficiencies in design and manufacture required to stay competitive vs out-sourced manufacturing. 

 

I think that is the aspect of manufacture ignored in most of these debates. The role of manufacturing efficiency and smart design is overlooked and things seem to be reduced to cost of production being a ratio of Chinese labour costs. With effective management and efficient production it is clear that this is not the case and that manufacture in Europe can indeed be viable. I'm not saying conditions favour a return of manufacturing model trains to Britain but I do believe that examples such as Roco and ViTrains demonstrate that it is not just about Chinese labour costs and where the costs of production are an immutable factor.

[47137]

My Mehano class 66 was made in Europe too, I'll make a guess at Slovenia but the box is in the loft. The 66 cost me around £110 plus £12 postage from Germany, which compares well with the latest Hornby and so on - and it's a better-looking model (to me!)

 

...

Nonsense - the Mehano 66 was made in China - printed on its box. Sorry.

 

- Richard.

[adb968008]

Had a pretty serious family illness away me away from modelling for a few weeks, so today is first chance I've had to look at recent toys in more detail, but here's my s160 unpacked and ready to play...

[brigo]

Roco has factories in Austria (obviously), Germany, the Czech Republic Slovenia and Romania. AFAIK they've never succumbed to the lure of Chinese factories, knowing the extended supply chain and the issues that gives.

 

Roco did have some items made in China. I have a cardboard box that I received from a shop in Germany. The box is printed Roco and appears to have originally been used to send BR 110.3 locos from China. I seem to remember that Roco issued a statement a few years ago that they were no longer using China, it may have been shortly after they opened the factory in Romania, 2007 I think.

 

Brian

[No Decorum]

Had a pretty serious family illness away me away from modelling for a few weeks, so today is first chance I've had to look at recent toys in more detail, but here's my s160 unpacked and ready to play...

Sorry about the family illness but: . Would someone care to do it a little bigger? Hornby? Bachmann? Model Rail?

[47137]

Sorry about the family illness but: . Would someone care to do it a little bigger? Hornby? Bachmann? Model Rail?

I have my doubts about "Model Rail" - I wrote to them some years ago because they omit the S160 from their checklist of RTR and got no reply. I'll guess they regard the engine as "not British", tho' 400+ locos in service seems worth an entry to me. But Roco have the design drawings, and they make many of their H0 offerings in 1:120 TT. I wonder . . . 

 

- Richard.

[adb968008]

Had a bit of a rough few months with a family illness, so modelling has had to take a back seat, however today I got chance to review the s160 in more detail.

 

The model comes in a Perspex presentation box, so straight from the packaging it could go onto the mantelpiece, it is secured in the case to prevent damage.

 

The stats: it weighs in at 382g, starts rolling at 0.1amp, 1volt.

 

 

 

At flat out, the gauge shows an impressive 115g

At 12v it's maxing at 0.2amp

 

 

On to the look and feel, first how does it line up against its HO brethren.. here with a BR01..

 

 

Next to Rocos last new steam release, the preserved Hungarian 109.109 (I got to drive the real thing on the Hungarian mainline at 60mph, for a princely £20 many years ago).

 

 

 

Next with HO stock... the BR01 clearly dwarfs it.

 

As it's the only rtr s160 on 16.5mm track it's bound to have some interest with OO modellers...

 

Here it is with a Gresley coach..

And with a more prototypical freight..

 

 

Doesn't look too bad with OO freight.

 

 

Now some close ups... excellent details...

 

 

Cab detail...

 

 

a nice view of how well the bar frames has been represented

 

 

The model is tender drive with traction tyres on the outer wheels, it does not have a shaft driving the locos axles unlike others in Rocos range.

 

 

As you can see I happily have two of them, NEM pockets, but the front coupling is a shankless NEM one, which isn't too common in OO, but I have seen them.

[No Decorum]

It looks very tempting but I’ll still hold out for one in 00. Thank you for those excellent shots.

[adb968008]

Here's a couple of running videos to compare

 

Here is a loco change from Bachmanns 42968 to Rocos 2255 on a train of Heljan A tanks, before the s160 departs...

 

 

Next up is an s160 2255 shunting a Hornby Gresley, note the placement of s160 1882 for size..

 

 

Then departs a typical mixed freight of OO stock behind an s160

 

 

Finally an s160 shunts around the station with Hungarian railways 109.109

 

 

I'm more than happy with my pair, both in OO and HO, it tends to be dominated by coaches / other loco in OO, but on its own on a train of OO wagons to me it's more than at home. The visual effect is also acceptable when running alongside OO stock in adjacent sidings.

 

It does however look a little small against its HO equivalents too.. the BR01 makes it look small !

 

One of mine was from Hobby Shop Faversham, £300 delivered, bought to order, took around 10 days, the other was a present.

If you want a rtr S160 this is your only current choice, but it's not a bad one !

[47137]

It's so nice to see someone else clearly enjoying this model. I think it's fabulous, I've never had a RTR model with so much attention to detail and authenticity, and spread uniformly across the model too. I ended up with a torch looking at the front of the tender.

 

- Richard.

[railroadbill]

Just looking through this thread again,  is the prairie tank in post 91 the one that went to, I think it was Poland, to a steam do several years ago?

[adb968008]

Just looking through this thread again, is the prairie tank in post 91 the one that went to, I think it was Poland, to a steam do several years ago?

Yes that's the one.

 

5521 went to Poland in 2007 and returned in 2010. It also took a very long trip to Budapest twice and hauled the Orient express whilst out there. I had a few very nice (fast) runs with it when out there.

 

My model is fitted with a Roco air pump and piece of copper pipe as per the prototype, as well as uk/polish flags as it frequently carried. Base loco is 5555.

 

 

4079 is a nice one to do as it ran some service trains and Railtour on BR when preserved, in its GWR guise, but also in BR service with with GW buffer beam numbers. Having two tenders BR lined and a Great Western lettered tender I can get a pretty convincing model in both pre- and post BR ownership but on the mainline in the 1960's.

 

I have a spare BR tender, so can recreate both appearances (ignoring the cab/cylinder lining which is close as s_d it, or do it 100% correct as it's Great Western 1960s preserved Railtour experience). The number plate is affixed with a 0.5mmx3mm piece of double sided tape, so one flick of the finger and swap of tender I can have it off and change it's appearance from 1964 BR, to 1965 Preserved on BR.

 

Base loco was 5011 Tintagel Castle, and a second spare tender from Penrice Castle. The only reason I did it was it was unboxed and I was thinking to sell it, but seeing as they were only selling for £40 (after eBay's taken its slice) I'd figure I'd have a play with it.

Nameplates/Transfers from Fox, included water slide lining for the the section beneath the nameplate.

 

 

Here's two pictures of it at Snow Hill, one before preservation and one after..

 

Before preservation in 1964

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16749798@N08/2983883085

 

As preserved in 1965

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16749798@N08/4682663216

[railroadbill]

Yes that's the one.

 

5521 went to Poland in 2007 and returned in 2010. It also took a very long trip to Budapest twice and hauled the Orient express whilst out there. I had a few very nice (fast) runs with it when out there.

 

My model is fitted with a Roco air pump and piece of copper pipe as per the prototype, as well as uk/polish flags as it frequently carried. Base loco is 5555.IMG_4968.JPG

 

 

4079 is a nice one to do as it ran some service trains and Railtour on BR when preserved, in its GWR guise, but also in BR service with with GW buffer beam numbers. Having two tenders BR lined and a Great Western lettered tender I can get a pretty convincing model in both pre- and post BR ownership but on the mainline in the 1960's.

 

I have a spare BR tender, so can recreate both appearances (ignoring the cab/cylinder lining which is close as s_d it, or do it 100% correct as it's Great Western 1960s preserved Railtour experience). The number plate is affixed with a 0.5mmx3mm piece of double sided tape, so one flick of the finger and swap of tender I can have it off and change it's appearance from 1964 BR, to 1965 Preserved on BR.

 

Base loco was 5011 Tintagel Castle, and a second spare tender from Penrice Castle. The only reason I did it was it was unboxed and I was thinking to sell it, but seeing as they were only selling for £40 (after eBay's taken its slice) I'd figure I'd have a play with it.

Nameplates/Transfers from Fox, included water slide lining for the the section beneath the nameplate.

 

IMG_4622.JPG

 

Here's two pictures of it at Snow Hill, one before preservation and one after..

 

Before preservation in 1964

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16749798@N08/2983883085

 

As preserved in 1965

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16749798@N08/4682663216

 

Thanks for that.

I remembered reading about the prairie tank in Poland, one of  those things which looking back would have been worth  going to see.

 

 

Pendennis castle with 2 tenders, one in BR service, one as preserved, is a good idea. I have to admit to having run locos in period or as railtour engines, ie V2 Green Arrow in LNER days with teak stock or with maroon Mk1s as  one of the railtours I once went on. 

 

That Roco S160 does look good, there seem to be various versions on the Roco site.  Also the MZ first series diesel is a current release again, still that's quite another story. :-)