Roco 2014 Catalogue- S160 in H0

[Bernard Lamb]

Vastly superior to Piko fom the late 1990's.Their DDR 65.10 heavy tank is quite something.

 

Quite superb, as were the real ones. This is actually the Brawa version.

 

My favourite amongst the war time machines is the BR42. The big brother of the more common type.

Bernard

[Ian Hargrave]

Ivan, I agree with you entirely - but the implication is, there are (still) different standards for the two scales.

 

I've been told plenty of times, that modern 00 RTR is "just as good as Continental models", but I've never had a recent Continental model to hand to confirm or disprove this. So if there is just one British journalist, or magazine editor, or model shop proprietor, or even manufacturer can notice this model for what it is, then perhaps the 00 modeller can have similarly good models one day.

 

(Rapido APT-E accepted!).

 

- Richard.

Except for one not insignificant factor.....the cost.We Brits will not be prepared to pay for such quality. Having said that,we do now have one OO player prepared to defy perceived wisdom and provide Continental quality albeit with a diesel model in the form of a Class24 and that is Phil Sutton who quite frankly has not received the recognition he deserves......which is disappointing,IMHO.

Would I buy the Roco S160 ? I wonder just how it will be at home alongside OO stablemates in wartime black and goods wagons.Am I tempted ? Yes but not by a sound version as I'm not DCC.

Are Continental HO steam outline models still ahead of their UK OO cousins.....yes. But it's down to the cost culture.SLW proves it is possible to match them for price and quality.An S 160 will set you back by £250. Who's prepared to step up to the (foot)plate for better quality in the wrong scale ?

[47137]

 The detail is very fine, I very much like the representaton of the bolted together castings of the smokebox saddle and cylinders in that front end view. But now Richard, measure the width over the widest point of the valve chests.

Well, when I took the model out of its display case this was the first thing I looked for, and it looked "spot on" to me. I put a vernier across the widest part, and surprised myself - it would be vulgar to post the lady's vital statistics online, I'll just say she's a busty girl.

 

 A direct comparision can be made with the S100 models: Roco's HO vs Model Rail/Bachmann's OO. The Roco for detail, the MR/Bach for accurate form...

I'm lucky enough to have both, and I'm not at all sure about this. I know that I have "become used" to a scale (H0) and so the Rivarrossi S100 looks "just right" and the Bachmann one looks "a bit odd". I would go as far as to say the Bachmann one looks like it is some imaginary metre-gauge version. The S100 is a difficult model in the smaller scales - there is a clear relationship between its major assemblies of "boiler/firebox" and "frame/wheels" plus a box for a cab, and I think think Rivarossi have got this better from most viewing angles. I write this in psite of the fact the outer faces of the wheels are closer to the right place on the Bachmann.

 

 Thank you for that.......the usual exquisite Roco quality.Presumably drves via cardan shaft from motor to drivers through cab ? This has odd echoes for me in that the packaging is very similar to SLW's Clas 24.

Yes it is HO but with this quality I can see a few being willing to overlook that.

The drive is on two axles of the tender. The engine is totally free-wheeling, but this is not apparent during operation.

 

When the model arrived, the engine ran through my 00-SF track, but the tender did not. The B2Bs on the loco wheels were around 14.4 mm, but the ones on the tender were 14.3 mm. The tender wheels drop out for lubrication; they are insulated on both sides and it was easy to make the adjustment. I'm still glad the problem was this way round.

 

- Richard.

[47137]

Except for one not insignificant factor.....the cost.We Brits will not be prepared to pay for such quality. Having said that,we do now have one OO player prepared to defy perceived wisdom and provide Continental quality albeit with a diesel model in the form of a Class24 and that is Phil Sutton who quite frankly has not received the recognition he deserves......which is disappointing,IMHO.

Would I buy the Roco S160 ? I wonder just how it will be at home alongside OO stablemates in wartime black and goods wagons.Am I tempted ? Yes but not by a sound version as I'm not DCC.

Are Continental HO steam outline models still ahead of their UK OO cousins.....yes. But it's down to the cost culture.SLW proves it is possible to match them for price and quality.An S 160 will set you back by £250. Who's prepared to step up to the (foot)plate for better quality in the wrong scale ?

I posted the pictures hoping people will enjoy seeing the model for what it is. I'm British, it's the right scale for me,and I bought one. Perhaps Roco will do a TT version one day.

 

I rather admire the Class 24, but it came to market after I'd moved across to H0. It prompted a fair amount of soul-searching at the time, but I know my layout looks better (more spacious) with my H0 trains, and I am happier here than in EM, and so I guess I subconsciously saved some money towards my S160. I wish the thing had been £250 all the same - add most of a hundred.

 

- Richard.

[Ian Hargrave]

Well thank you for putting this model in the spotlight.You've opened my eyes to something I have not ventured into for a decade.

 

I am mildly surprised that this is "Strictly Tender " rather than the hybrid drive I once knew.

 

Enjoy.

[Horsetan]

Except for one not insignificant factor.....the cost.We Brits will not be prepared to pay for such quality....

....unless it's pitched low enough on eBay.

[47137]

"Running in" cannot go on forever so I assembled all my coaches to make a 12-coach rake, attached the engine and it pulled away without a murmur. After a lap or two of the test track I uncoupled the engine and pulled the rake by hand, and decided 12 was a bit much and reduced it to 8 and then 6 coaches. There seems to be plenty of power. The long rake was like this:

4 x Lima Mk2 coaches on wheels by Steam Era Models

6 x Fleischmann Bullied coaches as manufactured

2 x Fleischmann Bullied coaches on wheels by Markits

 

The Roco engine has NEM 363 (not 362) coupler sockets, and comes with a standard European hook and loop coupler fitted on the back of the tender. There is an accessory bag with a similar coupler for the front, and a pair of Roco's own couplers to install as an alternative. For me, I cannot use the Roco couplers on my layout (they come undone at changes in gradient) and I try to avoid the hook and loop design because it holds the stock so far apart, so I have Kadees almost everywhere.

 

There is no ready-made Kadee coupler to fit a NEM363 socket (this would need another tie-up of US and European standards), but a Fleischmann Profi coupler head does fit. The Profi is the standard coupler for the same firm's Bullied coaches. And so, my S160 now has a Profi coupler on the tender. I still need to arrange a Profi coupler on one end of one or two wagons.

 

The engine comes with a blanking plate to fit to the front buffer beam instead of a coupler. This is obviously not a permanent modification, but it always seems to be a difficult decision to fit a coupler to the front of an engine I know will haul trains and not do shunting.

 

- Richard.

[Horsetan]

.... I cannot use the Roco couplers on my layout (they come undone at changes in gradient) .....

The Roco coupling is quite the most complicated gadget I've come across. Seems to be a standard fitting on Swiss outline engines.

[Giannis Halkis]

Hi,

Your problem is easy solve with special adapter from A&H models.

http://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/amf-a265--interface-nem363kadee-for-coupling-locomotives-ree-models-36738-p.asp

I hope this is of use you too.

G.

 

Ps I hope this engine comes in Greek one day maybe

[SDJR7F88]

How does the model look along side 00 gauge stock? I know it's the wrong scale, but does it look to far out of place?

[47137]

Hi,

Your problem is easy solve with special adapter from A&H models.

http://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/amf-a265--interface-nem363kadee-for-coupling-locomotives-ree-models-36738-p.asp

I hope this is of use you too.

G.

Ps I hope this engine comes in Greek one day maybe

Yes this adaptor looks like just the right thing. Many thanks. As an idle observation, I do wonder why most manufacturers went for the NEM362 when the 363 lets you adjust the coupler height so easily.

 

Richard.

[73080]

ROCO 72150  -  S160  USATC No. 2255 is available at The Hobby Shop, Faversham for £250.

[brittannia]

How does the model look along side 00 gauge stock? I know it's the wrong scale, but does it look to far out of place?

The Bachmann USA tank looks very chunky compared to the S160 [i have  both]. The difference in scales is more noticeable in the width,as would be expected, length wise it is about the size of a small 2-6-0 HO tank engine, in my opinion they do not look compatible in a serious running layout vain .

The USA 160 I have  is sound fitted [£341 at a 1,16 exchange rate] and is very good ,a good gimmick is Function 20 which has a Rattlesnake Hiss, echoing the APT-E's extra  novel sound,

Just to add that I have two separate layouts, one HO  mainly german and swiss locos +stock and the other  being 00 in different layout rooms

[47137]

How does the model look along side 00 gauge stock? I know it's the wrong scale, but does it look to far out of place?

It would be best to budget for some coaches or wagons to go with it. Coaches are easier, and as a dual braked loco you could run Lima mk1 or mk2, or Fleischmann Bullied stock. All of these are out of period for service use in Britain but you could call it an excursion. You will need to get 4mm trains out of the way, it really will look wrong. Sad but true. Ill try for some photos later today.

 

Richard.

[47137]

ROCO 72150 - S160 USATC No. 2255 is available at The Hobby Shop, Faversham for £250.

This is a vastly better price than everywhere else I have found. Pity its 10 days too late for me! Looking at their advert, the engine does not have lights fitted but this is just a copy error. Perhaps the shop agreed a price before delivery, compare with Gaugemaster quoting £340 for example.

 

Richard.

[Ian Hargrave]

How does the model look along side 00 gauge stock? I know it's the wrong scale, but does it look to far out of place?

Yes I know the temptation but unless you run with entirely HO scale stock then don't go there.It will scream at you.

[Brian Hawkins]

I believe Roco are producing a Chinese National Railway version, can anyone confirm this please as I'd love to add one to my collection.

[adb968008]

I believe Roco are producing a Chinese National Railway version, can anyone confirm this please as I'd love to add one to my collection.

I believe Roco are producing a Chinese National Railway version, can anyone confirm this please as I'd love to add one to my collection.

Correct they are producing a kd6, which is the Chinese s160, catalog 72160/1 . (As well as previously announced Austrian 72152/3 / Italian 72158/9 versions).

 

In 2017 they are doing a 140U version for SNCF. Cat 72162/3.

 

I wonder where cat numbers 72154/5 & 6/7 are.

 

As an aside they have also announced a Russian 2M62 (M62 pair with cab doors)

[47137]

How does the model look along side 00 gauge stock? I know it's the wrong scale, but does it look to far out of place?

 

It would be best to budget for some coaches or wagons to go with it. Coaches are easier, and as a dual braked loco you could run Lima mk1 or mk2, or Fleischmann Bullied stock. All of these are out of period for service use in Britain but you could call it an excursion. You will need to get 4mm trains out of the way, it really will look wrong. Sad but true. Ill try for some photos later today.

 

Here are some photos. The funny thing is, I've found that while the camera always highlights faults in an individual model (faults you wouldn't notice with the naked eye), photos tend to reduce the impact of a difference in scale rather than show it as bad as it is.

 

These two trains are 12 inches apart and I like the effect:

 

Swapping them over and looking from much the same viewpoint, they don't look all that bad:

 

Until you look down from above, when it looks all wrong:

 

Some more pictures:

 

 

As a prototype, the S160 looks more massive than it actually is (it is in the style of much bigger American engines) but it does very much fill the British loading gauge. If you've seen a real one (and you know roughly what a DMU looks like), you will find this jars to you.

 

My own brain gets used to models of a certain size, and having been with H0 for over a year now, I think 4mm models look a bit "chunky" and on H0 track somewhat "daft", but this is just me.

 

I suggest, a high viewpoint makes differences in scale look worse. My own layout has the tracks about 45 inches above the floor (and I want it higher), and perhaps this is why I think a layout to support both scales (00 and H0, either one at a time or together with H0 at the back) is a viable project. This also ties in with the way 00 trains viewed from low angles like some magazine photos look reasonable, but viewed from above as as some exhibitions look quite odd.

 

So - if you want an S160, and this is a tremendous model, I suggest you buy one and enjoy it for what it is.

 

Edit: I took these photos with a portrait lens (about 1.5 times magnification), mainly so I can throw the background out of focus but there is some compression of distance.

.

- Richard.

[jjb1970]

This is a vastly better price than everywhere else I have found. Pity its 10 days too late for me! Looking at their advert, the engine does not have lights fitted but this is just a copy error. Perhaps the shop agreed a price before delivery, compare with Gaugemaster quoting £340 for example.

 

Richard.

The Hobbyshop website is always worth keeping an eye on. I buy Italian outline stuff from them and they offer good prices and first class service. I'd recommend them 100%. A few of the ACME, Lima Expert & Rivarossi items I've bought from them have been cheaper than any of the European shops I checked and with next day delivery.

[HSB]

Here are some slides I took of the one on the K&WV coupled up to some Mk1s sometime in the 80s. Note that the tops of the tender sides are just a couple of inches lower than the coach roof gutters.

 

 

 

[47137]

Here are some slides I took of the one on the K&WV coupled up to some Mk1s sometime in the 80s. Note that the tops of the tender sides are just a couple of inches lower than the coach roof gutters.

 

The prototype does seem to look just right :-)

 

I cannot post a sensible photo of the model to compare with this because the Lima Mk1 (and Mk2) coaches sit rather high on their bogies, but this does remind me of a future task. I've done their wheels and couplers, but not the ride height.

 

This has always been the most "engaging" design of steam loco I have ever seen, I think it is because the designers did not pay much attention to style but rather built a piece of machinery to do a job and fit the space available. 400 ran in Britain, and examples went across the World as far as Persia (Iran).

 

- Richard.

[Horsetan]

.... examples went across the World as far as Persia (Iran).

 

They went further. Some were regauged for 5ft gauge Soviet lines. Others were delivered to India (5ft 6in) and China (standard).

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They went further. Some were regauged for 5ft gauge Soviet lines. Others were delivered to India (5ft 6in) and China (standard).

 

And Alaska, where they are restoring one back to service.

 

S160s were one of the few classes to be engaged in both sides of a battle field.. they fought for both the North and South Koreans.

[Horsetan]

And Alaska, where they are restoring one back to service....

 

Arguably not a massive distance from where it was originally built although, in the context of North American continental distances, that would be massive to us.