dave_long Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Another question - how far do we go in pursuit of authenticity? Some of the latest ideas like having a small wheel to simulate setting the handbrake, unlocking a padlock to simulate the unlocking of a turnout, etc. Certainly food for thought and something I have been considering, but if we are not careful, are we not in danger of the operation of the layout becoming too much like going to work? Surely hobby time is for enjoyment and relaxation! I'm a big fan of Alex Losch's work, and keep meaning to recreate his opening pits for turnout switches as he modelled on his X street gang layout, seen here http://www.frankenmodell.de/xstreetjun10.html (familiar track plan though Nick!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Simon, Easy to get round the proto coupling job, fit sergent couplers, look amazing and need setting to couple up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supaned Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Interesting replies gents. Whilst I'd agree that length of run does make a difference to operations , as I said earlier , not everybody has sufficient space to fully do this sort of thing justice , and this is where the art of compromise comes into play - I'd also concur that making things "too small" does lead to a caricature in some cases, but the example of a switching lead holding a loco and two cars - whilst ideally this would be what was aimed for , it may be that has to be trimmed down to a loco plus one car , so still giving a reasonable impression of the real thing. I'd also agree that researching traffic flows and the reasoning behind them is not only enjoyable , but helps with creating a more believeable layout overall - certainly if the right cars and motive power are obtained and used , rather than creating a reason for a particular car to appear. With all the photohosting websites and youtube , certainly if you are modelling fairly recent times , there is usually some material to point in the right direction , and , sometimes , things can be explained as to why they happen as they do , or a surprise locomotive or car may crop up - quite literally the prototype for everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Dear RMwebbers, The aforementioned Blue Herron papermill had a in-street headshunt which was 2x SW1500s + 3x 50' railbox boxcars in length, and literally no-more.(I've stood in the middle of Main Street in Oregon City and measured it...) Sure, you could cut down one SW1500, and/or loose a boxcar, but the "surrounding context" of LIL75 (the UP train code for the "Oregon City Switcher") makes it mandatory for 2x SW1500s (Occasionally LIL75 ran with one loco, but it inevitably "died on the law" if forced to do so..) Another fave is "the Chocolate" on CSX, at Mansfield on the NEC. Look in upcoming MRHs, there should be an article or two appearing. The headshunt at the end of the Chocolate was 2x GP40-2s + 2x centrebeam flats. However, possibly the most extreme I'm aware of is the Glass Factory on the Tulsa and Sapulpa Union. Literally a SW9/1200 and _one_ 50' covered hopper. Up to 15 hoppers could be in the industry at one time, but all had to be switched thru this "loco + one" bottleneck... Happy Modelling,Aim to Improve,Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 The aforementioned Blue Herron papermill had a in-street headshunt which was 2x SW1500s + 3x 50' railbox boxcars in length, and literally no-more. (I've stood in the middle of Main Street in Oregon City and measured it...) Sure, you could cut down one SW1500, and/or loose a boxcar, but the "surrounding context" of LIL75 (the UP train code for the "Oregon City Switcher") makes it mandatory for 2x SW1500s (Occasionally LIL75 ran with one loco, but it inevitably "died on the law" if forced to do so..) Another fave is "the Chocolate" on CSX, at Mansfield on the NEC. Look in upcoming MRHs, there should be an article or two appearing. The headshunt at the end of the Chocolate was 2x GP40-2s + 2x centrebeam flats. However, possibly the most extreme I'm aware of is the Glass Factory on the Tulsa and Sapulpa Union. Literally a SW9/1200 and _one_ 50' covered hopper. Up to 15 hoppers could be in the industry at one time, but all had to be switched thru this "loco + one" bottleneck... Another similar arrangement on the old Wisconsin Central...with the "USP" that the headshunt and approaches are all on trestles. http://goo.gl/maps/mttfj There's a guy building this one on a freemo module. http://www.flickr.com/photos/36552532@N04/sets/72157629808804872/with/7231307494/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 If a layout is to be exhibited 'having a bit of a run' can keep you sane. There's a lot of inspiration out there: Union Point Georgia 16 Nov 1968 - Copyright Martin K O'Toole. It's from the RailPictures web site http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=414760&nseq=2 Georgia Railway GP-7 #1035, a few cars and a home made Caboose. You can search by location and time period, amongst other things and is very useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Nick - great question. I wish I had an answer. As you (and others) may know, I've chopped and changed my modelling themes so many times over the past 25 years and have "visited" numerous prototypes, usually in micro format. ("Portwey" is the latest, just put on RM Web's "Box files, micros and dioramas" section, if anyone is interested in taking a look at another of my seld-indulgent shunting planks!). I've built micros inspired by New England shortlines; deep-south "Piney Woods" shortlines (thanks to Lucius Bebe's books); modern-image industrial USA shortlines; industrial narrow gauge in the UK; Cornish china clay lines; O gauge UK-based chinese shunting puzzles"; a bi-level British yard/station scene; BR(SR) or (WR) o the south coast....the list goes on. What's the common factor? Just a hugely over-enthusiastic enjoyment of so many aspects of the hobby and of the real thing, world-wide, pretty, much too. And I don't think I'm alone: how many of us modellers see a video, a photo in a book or a magazine, a layout at an exhibition, a new loco model, something we weren't really looking for on the 'net but happened to see in passing and say "wow - I must do something about modelling that!". There will always be a prototype or a model to have that effect, I'm certain. It's the Butterfly Syndrome - we flit about and land on something tasty and juicy and settle for a bit - then move on. Is there anything wrong with that? No, I truly don't think so, providing the funds hold out (that's why I "recycle" so much, including my micro layouts). It's a justification, if you will, of my approach to the hobby. There are times when I do envy those single-minded modellers who can stick with one scale, one period and maybe one prototype all their modelling lives, though. It musy be cheaper and a lot less frustrating ultimately. Here endeth the lesson! I'm retiring in 18 months and my dream then is to build permanent layout which is a bit longer than my usual 4 or 5 foot plank! It will happen as I have to run those Bulleids and that Dukedog now - and not just on a loco depot layout. With that in mid, I'm finally (yes, after over 25 years of daft wee micros) coming to the realisation that every layout (as opposed to diorama) really NEEDS a finite and clear purpose, even if it's just to switch a couple of freight cars around in a realsitic manner or to run to a timetable. Or, dare I sugest this, to enable to builder/viewer to sit in the middle of an oval of track and to enjoy watching a loco and some stock trundle around, passing through some nice scenic bits and pieces. Cyril Freezer knew a thing or two about layout design, I reckon, no matter how dated some of his roundy-roundy plans may appear to us now. Nick/Jack and ??? - see you at Glasgow on the Friday! Julian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I've come to conclusion that I only have time for one switch job a couple of times a week, so prototypical operation of a small industry is the way to go, just got to have time to build that industry... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalLamer Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Dear RMwebbers, The aforementioned Blue Herron papermill had a in-street headshunt which was 2x SW1500s + 3x 50' railbox boxcars in length, and literally no-more. (I've stood in the middle of Main Street in Oregon City and measured it...) Sure, you could cut down one SW1500, and/or loose a boxcar, but the "surrounding context" of LIL75 (the UP train code for the "Oregon City Switcher") makes it mandatory for 2x SW1500s (Occasionally LIL75 ran with one loco, but it inevitably "died on the law" if forced to do so..) Another fave is "the Chocolate" on CSX, at Mansfield on the NEC. Look in upcoming MRHs, there should be an article or two appearing. The headshunt at the end of the Chocolate was 2x GP40-2s + 2x centrebeam flats. However, possibly the most extreme I'm aware of is the Glass Factory on the Tulsa and Sapulpa Union. Literally a SW9/1200 and _one_ 50' covered hopper. Up to 15 hoppers could be in the industry at one time, but all had to be switched thru this "loco + one" bottleneck... Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr Oh, okay... I understand now what you mean by "headshunt". We hate that. We hate that SOOOOO much. Fortunately the worst situation like that in my terminal went out of service before I hired out. We do still have this though... You can get out of there with 2 motors and 3 cars. The job that switches that place pretty much always has 2 motors, usually a slug-and-mate. 3 spots at the industry but it can still make certain switching moves hard... like if you have to pull say, the far spot and drill a load back in there. This is the one that went out of service before I hired out. Apparently the industry wanted to expand their building but the company they leased the building from didn't want to let them or whatever... so they just moved instead. Cars stored on the spur and both house tracks, with the cars on the spur sitting ON TOP of the switches for the house tracks. You can only get out with 1 motor and 3 cars at a time. FUN! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium skipepsi Posted January 27, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 27, 2014 OK I have been inspired by this OP what would I need to purchase to model it all I have at the moment are a couple of Mehano locos and a three set of F7 origin crossleys? be specific and suggest items I would be able to get second hand please. As usual I am strapped for cash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Another thing I think adds to the pleasure of watching the prototype (and other people's layouts at shows) is that you don't always know what is going to happen next. This adds to the interest. When you operate your own layout, you usually have a pretty good idea what's happening next so there is no element of surprise. Have a go on 'Peforia Narrows' in June. Plenty of surprises are potentially possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Dear Total, You can get out of there with 2 motors and 3 cars. The job that switches that place pretty much always has 2 motors, usually a slug-and-mate. ... If it's not a rude question, which RR do you work for? Any mentions of "slug and mate" is of interest... ;-) Happy Modelling,Aim to Improve,Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalLamer Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Dear Total, If it's not a rude question, which RR do you work for? Any mentions of "slug and mate" is of interest... ;-) Happy Modelling, Aim to Improve, Prof Klyzlr I'm a Conductor for CSX. I work in Charlotte out of Pinoca Yard, which is VERY small, despite being in a big(ish) city. https://maps.google.com/maps?q=28202&ll=35.270316,-80.889823&spn=0.004454,0.008256&hnear=Charlotte,+North+Carolina+28202&gl=us&t=h&z=18 Yard on the bottom, intermodal ramp up top. Both very small. Main runs along the very top. Southbound to the left, Northbound to the right. Yard has 8 tracks, though #1 is mostly used for motors and #8 is basically a "departure track" where trains are built towards or shoved into once they're built. 2 through 7 hold between 20 to 25 cars each... so very small. The ramp isn't much bigger. A ~9000' pig train, which is common on Sundays, has to yard in 5 tracks just to fit it in. Anyways, a lot of industry track around there is too tight for 6 axles, so all Pinoca's motors are 4 axles with the exception of power that comes in on road trains (and is sent out shortly after on our originations). Usually we'll have, eh... one or two slug-and-mate sets hanging around along with another handful of singles. GP40s and GP38-2s. Occasionally a butthead will make its way there. No RCO in Charlotte, they tried it for awhile but the jobs we do combined with the terrain and track setup just wasn't conducive for it, plus the RCO job ended up tearing things up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 TotalLamer - fascinating stuff you've posted there, but some of us will need bits of it translating into English Specifically, what's a 'butthead' in CSX-speak, & what does RCO stand for?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalLamer Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 TotalLamer - fascinating stuff you've posted there, but some of us will need bits of it translating into English Specifically, what's a 'butthead' in CSX-speak, & what does RCO stand for?? This is a butthead: RCO stands for Remote Control Operation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Dear Total, Were you using the Southern pulpwood-flat converted 91xx or 94xx RCP flatcars for the RCO job? Also, might be a good topic for a seperate thread, but I'd be interested hearing about the "terrain and track setup" details which don't work soo well with remote ops? (Are we talking radio interference, vision issues, or other?) Have to say I've not heard of SW1500s being called "buttheads" before, guess that's what happens when too much time spent around western roads calling them "cruds"... ;-) Happy Modelling,Aim to Improve,Prof Klyzlr PS just had a HO RCP move off the roster to a new home. A relatively easy kitbash from a Walthers SIECO bulkhead flat. A 3D printed cabinent would have made it easier, but fabricating out of styrene works OK. SMD LEDs for the beacons, a TCS FL4 decoder to drive them, and it worked a treat coupled to an Atlas CSX GP40-2. With the current sugarcube speakers and "sound only" decoders, it almost also had sound... ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalLamer Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I don't think they needed the RCO cars, there's plenty of motors equipped with remote equipment. As for the terrain... well Charlotte is in the piedmont, so it's pretty hilly and RCO has a lag time and the remote also encourages bad running... just jamming the throttle into notch 8 and burning through the rail, shoving though doors, off the end of tracks, etc. Also, very few yard jobs in Charlotte are STRICTLY the yard, except for the north-end switching jobs that switch the yard, the ramp and build the pig trains, so they run with the road engines that come in and go out on our originations. Every other yard job is either responsible for certain industries on top of switching the yard OR doesn't switch the yard at all and strictly works industries. We do have one local, but most industries are worked by yard jobs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Dear RMwebbers, I was wondering why this pic was ringing a bell to me... ...and then I realised, it looks very much like the "Serial Inglenook" trackplan http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page84/#winstondale (the 2 short spurs are the Inglenook "short spurs", and the track beyond the furthurest turnout is the inglenook "Long spur" ) Happy modelling,Aim to Improve,Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcanman Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 TotalLamer - fascinating stuff you've posted there, but some of us will need bits of it translating into English Specifically, what's a 'butthead' in CSX-speak, & what does RCO stand for?? Yeah, I agree. Great to see some real railroading terminology. BTW Seaboard #1212 is a MP15T and not a SW1500, although maybe 'butthead' is just a general term for an end cab switcher? Anyways, I have my own CSX 'Butthead' Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
switcher 1 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I like "butthead"s. GE 70, anyone... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalLamer Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 although maybe 'butthead' is just a general term for an end cab switcher? This. Because they're flat on the front. Crews used to love them, for a couple of reasons. One, they didn't have a sink like pretty much every other motor so you could put in an "Engine Not Equipped" claim every day you worked on one... and two, for a long time they were the only motors without data recorders. But now that claim is gone (for Conductors anyways, Engineers I think might still have it) and I believe they do have recorders now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I like "butthead"s. GE 70, anyone... yeah, so at UK Exhibitions now, us American-outliners can use the word "butthead" & claim we aren't being offensive to anyone :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northpoint Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Have a go on 'Peforia Narrows' in June. Plenty of surprises are potentially possible. If I get a chance - ususally my time is required by 10 people at once..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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