92214 Cock of the North to stay at the GCR (Now Central Star) - Soon to be 92220 Evening Star

[Tom J]

Sorry to correct you Tom but the loco roster is featured on the railway's website!

Yes, and whilst it is up to date at the time of writing, it is often not kept up to date, as I suggested ;-)

[coachmann]

Telephone enquirer: Can you tell me which locos are in steam today please?

 

Girl behind counter : I'm just serving a gentleman with coffee but if you hang on I'll pop to the door and look.....pause.....Helloooo? Right, a GWR Manor is in the station and I believe the other locos is the 8F.

 

Telephone enquirer : Thanks. What colour are they?

 

Girl behind cointer : Off the top of my head the Manor is in a glossy and alluring green with a hint of mystical crystal fruit suggesting both cool classiness and a touch of whimsy.

 

Telephone enquirer : And the 8F? I hope it's not still maroon!

 

Girl behind counter : Fukc off....

[Boris]

How can some of these kettles be authentic?  Some of them never had train brakes fitted, but they've been added in preservation to allow them to carry passengers and for people to froth about riding behind them, hell, the coal they burn is imported from America or Poland, the water is treated to reduced the hardness, the boilers are patched with modern materials that are close but not quite there, the tyres are replaced as required, the originals being scrapped years ago etc etc.

 

If you complain about the colour then by logical extent you need to be complaining about everything else.

[Corbs]

Inauthetic or not, lined mixed traffic black suits the 9F well, it could have been applied to Bath Green Park shed 9Fs had they been fitted with steam heating pipes for the through workings in winter.

 

DSC_0216 copy.jpg

 

Damn it looks good. Makes me want a model of a 9F to line out....

[PhilH]

Just for info, I was on the Mid Hants yesterday doing my biannual TtTE duty. Whilst having a cuppa in the mess room I picked up an old copy of the 'Mid Hants News' (from late last year) and opened it to an article prattling on about something or the other. What caught my eye was, in this article,  the statement that 'in common with other railways, enthusiasts contribute less than 5% of the MHR's annual income'.

 

So there we are, it's official.....now where's my Fat Controller suit?

[Colin]

Why Phil, have you been putting on weight?

[37255]

enthusiasts contribute less than 5% of the MHR's annual income'.

 

But what percentage of their workforce?

[PhilH]

Unskilled, quite large. But, as in any reasonably high turnover business, the decision making, business steering and specialised posts are filled by paid staff.

 

I quoted the figure re income as it would seem that a lot (not all) of enthusiasts think that they should have a say in how things are presented without contributing anything to facilitating it.

[298]

I've heard that "5%" argument before.... unfortunately it was based on the theory that only 5% of the population are enthusiasts, and every one of the potential 95% of the UK's population would make the effort to visit. It's also dangerous to assume that enthusiasts don't turn up with their families at "Characterised trains from children's books" days or "D-day preparation" galas....

[stewartingram]

How can some of these kettles be authentic?  Some of them never had train brakes fitted, but they've been added in preservation to allow them to carry passengers and for people to froth about riding behind them, hell, the coal they burn is imported from America or Poland, the water is treated to reduced the hardness, the boilers are patched with modern materials that are close but not quite there, the tyres are replaced as required, the originals being scrapped years ago etc etc.

 

If you complain about the colour then by logical extent you need to be complaining about everything else.

Pedant mode on -

They are NOT kettles

Pedant mode off.

 

Stewart

[PhilH]

I've heard that "5%" argument before.... unfortunately it was based on the theory that only 5% of the population are enthusiasts, and every one of the potential 95% of the UK's population would make the effort to visit. It's also dangerous to assume that enthusiasts don't turn up with their families at "Characterised trains from children's books" days or "D-day preparation" galas....

 

I honestly think it's based on firmer ground than that...certainly from what I've observed over the years on the MHR it would seem to be about right.

 

But in the end it doesn't really matter anyway...whoever owns the things are going to do it their way.

[andyram]

As a TTI on the Great Central I can tell you that during my working turns I would classify the passenger loadings as thus:

 

70% general families.

20% families with at least one enthusiast member.

10% enthusiasts travelling alone, or in friendship groups.

 

Of these:

The general families will buy family rover tickets, sweets and will also spend money in the gift shop. Some will also spend money on on train catering or in the catering outlets along the line.

The second group will do likewise.

A large number of the final group will travel on various discounted passes, but will spend money on catering and beer, less so in the gifts shop.

 

The 70% group will ask what the engine's name is and are happy so long as the engine is a steam engine. They will also come back for repeat visits for other child centred events or during the summer holidays. Their total yearly spend will be greater! Hence the need to attract these people in!

[AngryMeerkat]

So let me get this right......

 

A steam loco can have any and all parts replaced with modern COPIES, usually of an improved design to raise reliability, and that's perfectly acceptable?

 

But a steam loco absolutely cannot be painted the wrong shade of black because that is not authentic?

 

I think this train of thought is very misguided, and is a total contradiction. If you want to use these loco's as a history lesson then keep them EXACTLY as they were when they were binned by BR in the 50s/60s. Same colour, same components, same condition. Keep them in a hermetically sealed environment because the first time you change even a tiny screw the loco is no longer original.

 

If you want steam loco's that are working machines expected to earn money decades after their expiry date, then expect them to be modified to suit their duties. It doesn't matter if new lights are added to allow mainline running, new more reliable valves are fitted, modern OHLE warning flashes are applied, or the incorrect version of LNER green paint is applied, the loco is now modified and no longer original. At least paint can be changed without affecting anything else, once components wear out they can only be replaced by copies, which is far more unoriginal or unauthentic than any colour applied.

 

Ps as somebody who works in the field of paint technology (non-fading colours and self-healing paint among other things) you must be crazy if you think any colour other than black is an exact colour match for paints that were mixed 50 - 100 years ago! Model companies struggle to match current livery colours, and you think a colour from 75 years ago can be matched from memory, black and white pictures, or some actual 75 year old paint that has weathered and chemically decomposed?

 

Mark

[Dava]

Andy shows how vital the family entertainment market is to the GCR, & they do it well, give the children a happy experience & they'll come back. Within 10 years the reunited GCR +museum can be the finest preserved (main) line in the UK & world. Invest!

 

 

Dava

[298]

So let me get this right......

A steam loco can have any and all parts replaced with modern COPIES, usually of an improved design to raise reliability, and that's perfectly acceptable?

But a steam loco absolutely cannot be painted the wrong shade of black because that is not authentic?

I think this train of thought is very misguided, and is a total contradiction. If you want to use these loco's as a history lesson then keep them EXACTLY as they were when they were binned by BR in the 50s/60s. Same colour, same components, same condition. Keep them in a hermetically sealed environment because the first time you change even a tiny screw the loco is no longer original.

If you want steam loco's that are working machines expected to earn money decades after their expiry date, then expect them to be modified to suit their duties. It doesn't matter if new lights are added to allow mainline running, new more reliable valves are fitted, modern OHLE warning flashes are applied, or the incorrect version of LNER green paint is applied, the loco is now modified and no longer original. At least paint can be changed without affecting anything else, once components wear out they can only be replaced by copies, which is far more unoriginal or unauthentic than any colour applied.

 

I think you and others are missing the point of something being done out of necessity (such as not being able to obtain paint from the same batch that was mixed by Alf at Doncaster works on a Thursday in July in 1958), versus something that us not only done on a whim but without historical merit too. It reminds me of alot of live steam locos locos where the builder has obviously gone to a lot of effort to construct a loco, but has fallen at the final hurdle by not following the livery accurately enough or putting the lettering on in the wrong style or at the wrong height.

[SwissRailPassion]

I think you and others are missing the point of something being done out of necessity (such as not being able to obtain paint from the same batch that was mixed by Alf at Doncaster works on a Thursday in July in 1958), versus something that us not only done on a whim but without historical merit too. It reminds me of alot of live steam locos locos where the builder has obviously gone to a lot of effort to construct a loco, but gas fallen at the final hurdle by not following the livery accurately enough or putting the lettering on in the wrong style or at the wrong height.

Who's Alf?

Williamsons of Ripon supplied a large amount of railway paint. They still supply today and have colour matches and the formulas from pre-grouping days.

[298]

Who's Alf?

Williamsons of Ripon supplied a large amount of railway paint. They still supply today and have colour matches and the formulas from pre-grouping days.

Having used a lot of their products, I'd agree that they are the industry leader, but there is still some degree of uncertainty and inaccuracy with particular colours. So at some point you have to compromise, but remember that there are only a handful of locos left that fit "AngryMeerkat"'s description, such as 46235.

 

But these compromises are different to painting stuff as follies, or another pet hate of mine, TOPS numbers in the wrong font....

[coachmann]

When David Jenkinson was obtaining some colour patches off Williamsons for me, I asked if they had Southern Maunsell green seeing as there are at least two variants. It transpired they no longer had the formula but .."Just mix the usual black and yellow".  This intrigued me as I usually started with blue and yellow. What I got was a colour very much akin to LSWR Urie green. Throw blue into the black & yellow mix and it starts to look 'Southern'. Colour is a fascinating subject to many railway historian and modellers.

[pondy]

I have read today that the lining and name is soon to come off and 92214 will run in weathered black.

 

It will then be relined on top of a coat of green paint to resemble another member of the class.

Don't know about the name though maybe it should become "Cock of the East Midlands".

[PhilH]

I have read today that the lining and name is soon to come off and 92214 will run in weathered black.

 

It will then be relined on top of a coat of green paint to resemble another member of the class.

Don't know about the name though maybe it should become "Cock of the East Midlands".

A mate of mine aspires to that title.

[andyram]

I have read today that the lining and name is soon to come off and 92214 will run in weathered black.

 

It will then be relined on top of a coat of green paint to resemble another member of the class.

Don't know about the name though maybe it should become "Cock of the East Midlands".

 

Would have been fitting, but Billy Davies no longer works in the East Midlands!!

[andyram]

According to Steam Railway today - no name has been decided on yet as the owner is still out of the country on business. There is a possibility that the 9F could remain unnamed following its repaint into lined green. Apparantly a lot of people want to see that combination!

[60800]

I rather like her how she is now - unnamed BR lined black.

 

If she is going into BR green, please, no copper capped chimney...

[Boris]

Pedant mode on -

They are NOT kettles

Pedant mode off.

 

Stewart

 

Fine, ashtrays it is then.

[Boris]

Oooohhhh, I won a disagree for saying something controversial!

 

Rock on!