Washout at Dawlish

[Ravenser]

Looking at this with due diffidence as someone from outside the SW:

 

- Clearly the main line to Plymouth has to be reinstated asap - though that's certainly measured in weeks if not months. Abandonments west of Exeter are simply not credible in the short or medium term , and nor is letting Dawlish be lost to coastal erosion. One way or another that sea wall must be reinstated

 

- When it comes to alternative routes to the sea wall at Dawlish , there are two games in town: a diversion of the existing GW route around the back of Dawlish in some version of the 1930s GW proposals , or reinstatement of the missing part of the ex LSWR route . (It';s an unusual element of the situation that not only is there a possible alternative , there are 2 of them, well developed, reasonably practical, and with some credibility, though with question marks about economic viability) 

 

- The 1930s deviation proposals would require heavy engineering works , and leave rail services in Devon pretty much where they are today

 

- Reopening the LSWR route would restore rail services to two decent sized market towns (Okehampton and Tavistock) and benefit a third (Crediton) significantly. Devon suffered severely under the Beeching Axe - very large parts of the county are many miles from any surviving station - and this option would expand rail coverage and provide potentially useful railheads for a wider area 

 

- From informed comments both options would be in the £400-500 million bracket, and probably 20-30 times more expensive than repairing the existing main line

 

It seems that it's already pretty well accepted that reinstating Bere Alston - Tavistock is more or less justified in its own right. So we are effectively talking about reinstating Tavistock-Meldon, and strengthening Meldon Viaduct and possibly one other viaduct

 

- It is extremely  doubtful that the ex LSW route could compare in journey time or capacity with the current route

 

What might be a credible package would be to reinstate the ex LSW route as a basic rural railway for the regional transport benefits , but with infrastructure capable of acting as an emergency diversionary route in a restricted way.

 

In other words abasically single track railway with some loops /double sections , a 60 mph line limit, and Meldon Viaduct strengthened to permit an HST to cross at 25mph.

 

If the Dawlish Warren route were closed, reduced FGW InterCity services could continue to Plymouth via Okehampton and terminate, with passengers for further west changing to a Plymouth/Penzance shuttle service . I doubt if trains are much more than 60% full west of Plymouth? So 2 Voyagers might cover you and terminating through services at Plymouth would get round the need for extra sets and crews? Plymouth passengers would face a longer journey time , though perhaps still less than rail replacement buses, but would be spared any need to change. Passengers west of Plymouth would have one change , to another train, not two bus /train changes

 

For the other 51 weeks of the year, the LSW line  would survice on its local traffic - and here access to the north side of the Dartmoor National Park could be an important commercial factor if vigourously promoted. If this seems commercially dubious - there's a parallel with the S&C . Settle , Appleby and Kirkby Stephen must have a smaller combined population than Tavistock, Okehampton, Lydford and Crediton , and the S&C is much longer and far more sparsely populated around the other stations  . In the 1960s the few S&C stoppers seem to have carried single figure numbers of passengers for most of their journey . But look at it now. Dales Rail showed that walkers in a national park will use rail access , if it is promoted (they're happy to leave the car behind)

 

If in a few years time some 158s are going spare after northern electrifications, then perhaps 4-5 could be cascaded to SW Trains , to allow them to resume operating west of Exeter but this time via Okehampton, with perhaps a train every 2 hours running through to Plymouth (After all 2-3 car 158s are what are used on the Leeds -Carlisle locals) With through services to London further traffic possibilities open up and you can vigourously market "Direct to Dartmoor" and journey possibilities to E Devon, Yeovil and Salisbury

 

There does seem to be strong political pressure for the government to be seen to be doing something significant, there are a lot of Lib Dem seats in the West Country and reinstating the LSW route would be a lot more sensible, modestly priced and beneficial to a much wider area, than many political gestures (the Humber Bridge comes to mind here) . It would also show that new railways aren't just for the Scots and the Welsh but that the English can have something too. 

 

I can see national political considerations pushing this one forward 

[station cat]

My experience is that a lot of trains west of Plymouth are nearer 160% full

[Dunsignalling]

Far too American.  It's not the BRITISH WAY.  .... 

 

Actually the idea of side-tippers is lovely, something similar might have been done in the pre-lorry era, with narrow gauge to extend the repair sections bit-by-bit...   I can see a working model already

 

oops   leave it to the engineers

We have plenty of side discharge hoppers over here that can do the same job whilst remaining within gauge!

 

John

[Captain Kernow]

OK, some photos from yesterday and today. No captions, the images really speak for themselves, and most will have seen media reports etc. as well.

 

Yesterday:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And finally, yes, this was also taken at Dawlish, yesterday...!

[Ravenser]

My experience is that a lot of trains west of Plymouth are nearer 160% full

 

 

Noted, but are these the local services, XC, or the London trains? My comment was specifically about the Paddington services - presumably the typical HST has plenty of seats spare once it's west of Plymouth? 

[Captain Kernow]

Images from this afternoon...

 

The R/R machine with the cutting attachment waiting for the order to cut, unfortunately it developed a fault and was fixed while I was off skulking on the station, doing a phone conference...

 

Off up to Rockstone it went, waiting for it's fitter to arrive:

 

The guys with the oxy gear had to wait:

 

The car park at Dawlish has now been given over 100% as a works compound, for the duration:

 

Another R/R machine waiting it's turn:

 

Back at the main site, the rails on the Exeter side had now been cut:

 

 

Now the oxy team could get to work on the teignmouth side:

 

 

The moment of severance!

 

 

Retrieving belongings for the family in the endangered house:

 

 

 

 

[PhilJ W]

http://www.environme...ods/147932.aspx says "Finding out where best to get the sand; how much will be needed and what are the best methods to recharge the beaches"

 

The sand will probably have to come in by barge.having been dredged from somewhere, the somewhere being the sticking point.

There is plenty of sand not far away, the Cornish 'Alps', waste sand from the clay workings. And bringing it in by rail would be the logical way to go.

[Dunsignalling]

Agreed. However there are areas nearby which will yield suitable grades - after all, where did those areas get their sand from? The science of it all is actually fascinating. Cold comfort for those affected at present, of course...

There are quite dramatic changes happening to beaches all along the southern coast of Devon.  

 

I was in Seaton (Devon) on Sunday and was amazed at the increased amount of sand visible but disturbed at what appears to be the loss of several thousand tons of pebbles.

 

The whole beach looks a lot less "protective" than it used too and now has a quite shallow slope along its entire length. I understand the road along the promenade has been closed to traffic since the storm that did the damage at Dawlish.

 

John  

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I've no doubt at all that the railway (in double track form - it has to be) will be reinstated on it's present formation as quickly as possible. Local passenger traffic can be heavy as illustrated by the picture at Starcross below. This scene can be replicated at Dawlish and Teignmouth. Students off to school, workers heading for Exeter, etc.

 

Politically and economically I can't see Torbay, Plymouth and the whole of Cornwall being left (I almost said high and dry - sorry) without a quick restoration of rail services.

 

It's clear from Captain Kernow's excellent reports (and others) that this is a priority for Network Rail.

 

Whether, when everything is running smoothly as usual, this incident is quietly forgotten or plans are made for an alternative route between Exeter and Newton Abbot (because Torbay can't be left out of the equation), remains to be seen.

[station cat]

Noted, but are these the local services, XC, or the London trains? My comment was specifically about the Paddington services - presumably the typical HST has plenty of seats spare once it's west of Plymouth? 

 

I've been on HSTs that had no spare seats in first, goodness knows what they were like in standard. Mind you I haven't been to Cornwall for a few years so things might have changed. I'm sure other people would be able to give you a more accurate account. That and I get the impression that, unless you want to go to Saltash/Menheniot/St Germans, all trains running on the mainline are alike - you don't really have local trains vs intercity.

[Rob F]

 

 

 

But what would an extra sea defence further out do the beach and therefore the tourist trade? It is incredible how much a small change, such as extending a pier a few extra metres out to sea, can have on the shoreline. A sandy beach can disappear over a few years, if the measures are not carefully thought out. That wouldn't help the local economy for sure.

=======================================================================================================

 

That crossed my mind too - the beaches around Dawlish are not the biggest in terms of amount of sand available from what I recall - so they can't build a wall too far out otherwise the beaches will virtually disappear which would make it pointless going to the seaside there in any case.

 

I'm no structural engineer for sure but maybe a 2nd (outer) wall would give much more strength and not have to be built to far out to spoil the current lovely seawall effect.

 

Having said all that I'm sure NR will just fix the current situation and leave it at that!

 

I think Dawlish has almost given up on being a seaside beach destination already. We stayed there a few times with the kids and it became more difficult, year on year, to find self-catering holiday accommodation anywhere close to the front. The last place we stayed in was on Marine Parade and that stopped when the owners decided to let it out to, as they described it, 'to the Social Security for homeless people'. Apparently they could make a lot more money that way as the holiday trade had dwindled right away. Incidentally, in the 1980s my parents hired a flat on Sea Lawn terrace, right next to where the current breach is.

 

The last few times we have stayed in that neck of the woods we stayed in the camping coaches at Dawlish Warren instead.

 

ROB

[roythebus]

Who is going to educate the BBC?  I don't know when 'railway lines' became 'train tracks' but if the line at Dawlish was opened in 1847 and has lasted until now (150 years) not bad I would say? (I haven't checked to see how many times it has been washed away in between.)

 

Regard

 

Ray

 

UK storms: Coastal defences showing strain

2 hours ago

One of the most dramatic images of the damage caused by the severe weather battering Britain is that of the destroyed train track at Dawlish.

Experts have made repeated warnings that the line is vulnerable to poor weather, even before it was opened in 1847.

As the stream of storms from the Atlantic shows no sign of letting up, the UK's ageing coastal defences are beginning to show the strain.

David Shukman reports.

Probably the same time we got train stations...

 

As an aside, if we look back in history to the dark days of WW2, severe damage was caused by bombing raids throughout Europe and here. It didn't seem to take long to fill the holes and get services running again.

 

Good luck to Captain Kernow and his colleagues for their forthcoming efforts. (just think of the overtime)

[Coombe Barton]

There is plenty of sand not far away, the Cornish 'Alps', waste sand from the clay workings. And bringing it in by rail would be the logical way to go.

That certainly is not the right type of sand for coastal replenishment. It has a high content of feldspars and is much too angular.

 

And the wrong colour.

 

And so people know - this is a geologist speaking.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Coombe Barton

[TheSignalEngineer]

I've been on HSTs that had no spare seats in first, goodness knows what they were like in standard. Mind you I haven't been to Cornwall for a few years so things might have changed. I'm sure other people would be able to give you a more accurate account. That and I get the impression that, unless you want to go to Saltash/Menheniot/St Germans, all trains running on the mainline are alike - you don't really have local trains vs intercity.

Travelled to Ivybridge last summer getting on at Exeter. The HST from Paddington was busy in 1st and heaving in Steerage. 

 

There are quite dramatic changes happening to beaches all along the southern coast of Devon.  

 

I was in Seaton (Devon) on Sunday and was amazed at the increased amount of sand visible but disturbed at what appears to be the loss of several thousand tons of pebbles.

 

The whole beach looks a lot less "protective" than it used too and now has a quite shallow slope along its entire length. I understand the road along the promenade has been closed to traffic since the storm that did the damage at Dawlish.

 

John  

Comparing pictures I took to the east side of Bigbury on sea last summer with some I took in 1973 it was difficult to pinpoint because of the difference in the sand levels at the cliff.

[ThaneofFife]

I fear for those houses just behind the washed away track.the sea continues to erode the exposed earthwork and the frontages are already teetering....this will knock on to any remedials on the railway.

[D1072]

Some comments on sea defences in response to earlier posts:

 

 

Re. Hallsands – a ghost village in South Devon which was undermined in a storm in January 1917 – this was the result of dredging aggregate about a mile offshore, to build the northern extension to Devonport Dockyard (which now includes the submarine refit area).  

Plymouth Breakwater was constructed earlier, of large limestone blocks from quarries at Oreston and West Hoe, c. 1810.  It has a very shallow angle (1 in 5?), the original plan had steeper slopes but storms dictated otherwise.    Alterations to the coastline can have unpredictable effects.

 

At Dawlish, dumping large rocks, as between Langstone Cliff and Dawlish Warren, would probably be unacceptable from a tourism point of view as mentioned in #289, although it may be needed temporarily in order to effect a repair.

A better solution than permanent rock tipping would be a well engineered outer wall carrying a wider footpath, perhaps similar to that at Teignmouth seafront, which would properly deflect waves before they impact the railway retaining wall.   Comments from the Captain and NR indicate we now have the opportunity for a reinforced concrete wall with stone facing – much more substantial, providing it can be anchored well into the bedrock deep enough to be safe from wave scour.     If there could now be provision of a higher level walkway at Sea Lawn, rather than  down at high tide level, this will give the railway retaining wall extra protection arising from a new outer walkway wall which this section has never had.

 

Post 241 mentions loss of beach sand – installation of more groynes will help, but I’m not sure who would be responsible for this.

 

The original wall was built by the SDR in 1846 with, I suspect, limited and mainly local investment.   Many sections have been rebuilt after various breaches; these are listed in brief in “Rails Along the Sea Wall” (Platform 5, 1990).  

I don’t have either Anthony Kingdom’s 2008 book or Colin Marsden’s 2009 book – these may provide more details of when certain sections were rebuilt or repaired.

 

The section between Dawlish viaduct and Kennaway Tunnel was completely rebuilt, much nearer the sea on a less curved alignment, on doubling in 1902.  This had the unexpected effect of lowering the sand cover here.   There are complex interactions involving weather, currents, longshore drift which need to be considered if any breakwaters, groynes, “reefs” etc are built.

A thorough hydrological survey – perhaps funded out of the £100m apparently promised by the PM yesterday – would help to develop a solution to maintain sand cover along the whole coastline, including Dawlish Warren, which helps prevent Exeter from flooding.

 

Great work being done by the Captain and the rest of the crew in what must be hazardous conditions.

I hope use of the concrete sprayer, if appropriate, will help save the houses.

[BR(S)]

Not seen many pictures of the platform damage, but this clear one has appeared on Flickr:

 

Dawlish storm damage 14 by Robert Sherwood, on Flickr

 

I bet the BBC, Sky et al would love to have access to a "Captain Kernow" insider giving regular updates!!

[Joseph_Pestell]

The main line ain't exactly busy. I do question whether it might be worth rebuilding the Dawlish bit as single track.

 

Ed

 

Please refer to the second sentence of my original post.

 

It is not long since the error of having a stretch of single track (west of Burngullow) was corrected. Further west, so without the additional traffic from Plymouth and Torbay, any late running there could have knock-on effects across almost the entire GB rail network.

[BR(S)]

 

This gent had only gone for an afternoon stroll down Marine Parade to photograph the afternoon China Clay! 

 

(Only light-hearted humour intended.  As my Dad would say "It having happened").

[Glorious NSE]

 

 

- Reopening the LSWR route would restore rail services to two decent sized market towns (Okehampton and Tavistock) and benefit a third (Crediton) significantly. Devon suffered severely under the Beeching Axe - very large parts of the county are many miles from any surviving station - and this option would expand rail coverage and provide potentially useful railheads for a wider area

 

Agreed so far...

 

 

 

 

What might be a credible package would be to reinstate the ex LSW route as a basic rural railway for the regional transport benefits , but with infrastructure capable of acting as an emergency diversionary route in a restricted way.

 

In other words a basically single track railway with some loops /double sections , a 60 mph line limit, and Meldon Viaduct strengthened to permit an HST to cross at 25mph.

 

That then presumably wouldn't handle (for instance) 25.5t axle weight wagons so that freight traffic wasn't disrupted (or to allow engineers trains access to both ends of a blockade.) - that to me is a fairly critical need of any diversionary route, as you can't just get the freight to transfer to a bus for a short section of it's journey.

 

It also means I suspect, a lot more infrastructure than most folk think. For example, the present Okehampton service takes just over an hour to do Crediton-Okehampton-Crediton, so for instance if you had a loop at Okehampton and (for instance) an hourly Exeter-Plymouth via Okehampton local service then you have filled your line capacity already (and I think you have the same issue between Crediton and Exeter, I think it'll handle 4 tph with some careful planning, but 6tph (2 Barnstaple, 2 Plymouth locals, 2 diverted HSTs) sounds unlikely to me...I think you're into needing reasonable chunks of it rebuilt as double track, making it not quite such a simple cheap railway...

 

I'm sure similar issues would be present between Bere Alston and Plymouth too where you'd need to allow capacity for Gunnislake trains...

 

So, I reckon knocking up the Okehampton route as a cheap-ish 'Sprinter railway' is a decent idea, with some big benefits locally - but you'd need to heavily over-engineer it for that role if you want to also make it useful (beyond overnight stock moves!) in this kind of situation.

 

And it still doesn't help anyone heading to/from South Devon.

[Godders]

By my reckoning, Three Bridges to Victoria is 68.75 miles return or thereabouts.

As there are 365 days in a year, less 104 Saturdays & Sundays, eight bank holidays and say 25 days' leave, that means he's travelling about 15000 miles a year (or slightly over halfway round the world!). So £4000kpa works out at around 25p a mile.

 

I believe the RAC currently estimates the cost of motoring at over 50p/mile (obviously dependent on vehicle) by the time wear and tear, depreciation etc have kicked in - some of my my colleagues get 45p/mile motor expenses and complain it's not enough! So I'd say he's getting pretty good value....

 

(And FWIW I live within walking distance of my office and can't afford a house either!).

 

Sorry to go Off-Topic.

Three Bridges to London Bridge is 30.5 miles by road or rail. So cost per mile is higher than you state. However, that's not the point. Please compare like with like i.e. the train fares.

 

Paignton to Exeter is 25miles so the equivalent of Three Bridges to London Bridge is factored up by 1.2. 

 

The Paignton to Exeter price is £1904 therefore the equivalent is £1904 * 1.2 which is £2285 a difference of £1700 or 75% 

 

So if you think my son is getting a good deal, it's positively a steal in Devon.

 

Godders

[AngryMeerkat]

 Better still do something creative and add to the position that Cornwall has as a destination for surfers. Something like the artificial reef off of Bournemouth beach. At least that would have a return on investment for the Dawlish locals.

The Bournemouth surf reef is a complete failure, a £3 million failure at that! The surf reef is basically bags of sand sunk at a distance off the natural break point, designed to create something akin to an underwater vacuum which forces the waves the break before the beach. Unfortunately it doesn't work. The artificial reef doesn't create waves for surfing, and doesn't protect the shore from waves during a storm either (both Bournemouth and Boscombe piers were closed today).

 

Artificial reefs also affect the beach, sometimes negatively. The high tide and waves have a scrubbing effect, moving the sand/pebbles on the beach. When this is altered the beach can either build or disappear (I forget which, it's an old subject for me!) but it's an undesirable effect.

 

Unfortunately I believe the only solution is to build a sea wall capable of holding back the sea. Anything else poses too many unknown environmental risks to the area, which relies on tourism so cannot afford to lose its current status.

 

Also as I'm posting, thanks and good luck to Captain Kernow and his colleagues. Stay safe out there.

 

Mark

[RJS1977]

Was reading an interesting discussion on Facebook earlier which suggested that the construction of some of the houses behind the line many years ago may have contributed to the collapse of the sea wall - both directly in that the weight of the houses may have exerted pressure on the sea wall, and indirectly in that apparently the owners of the new houses requested that the footpath (and hence the front edge of the sea wall)  be lowered so people walking along the wall couldn't see into the houses!

[Glorious NSE]

 

The main line ain't exactly busy. I do question whether it might be worth rebuilding the Dawlish bit as single track.

 

Teignmouth-Dawlish Warren timings for a stopping train is 9 minutes, two of them each way per hour is 36 minutes, in addition you need at least 3 "through" paths each way, assuming they take about 6 minutes then you'd need a 72 minute hour (or less trains) to make a single track work...

[lmsforever]

I was amazed at how busy the trains are in Cornwall ,during a four  day holiday based at Penzance every train was indeed packed in all classes good to see people using a sensible means of transport with helpful cheerfull staff.In contrast the few buses I used the drivers were pretty miserable and unhelpfull give me a train anyday.Well done to all the staff working all over the flooded areas trying to keep the trains running.