Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[southern42]

In the early days the Great Western were more interested in a better class of traveller. Freezing the poor devils was a bit much though!

 

What an appalling miss match of windows on those houses the middle ground floor one half and half looks like one of the 'shared windows' I saw in shropshire. One of my pet hates is where they replace an old window with one of a different shape. I can  agree with changing the glazing style or the way of opening but changing the window shape usually looks plain wrong.

 

Don

 

Architecturally they differentiate class (owner or servants quarters) / usage (domestic / recreation / sleeping etc) of the building just as they did in the grander houses, manor, grange, hall, or castle (and I'm not talking GWR locos).  Compare the entrance to some of the grand hotels in our big cities with their upper floors.  When I stayed in Paris on a college student trip, our room up in the attic was that low key it had a wardrobe not unlike the one in Some Mothers Do Ave Em or at 62 West Wallaby Street (Wallace and Gromit) and our window overlooked the dustbins in the alley below.  The cottage windows also indicate a bit of one upmanship going on as well, perhaps, which I saw all around me as I was growing up right down to those with fancy net curtains.  Nowadays, it'll be more about being environmental, saving the planet or being Grade II Listed.

 

Interesting terrace to model though.

Edited March 24, 2015 by southern42

[corneliuslundie]

I don't think a branch would have worked anyway by 1895 as I think the BoT would have wanted a double junction if there was a passenger line involved. But you could make the sidings asymmetric and have some plain line between the station and the fiddle yard at the right hand side. I am also slightly suspicious about the double slip in the running lines, though they certainly happened - probably the were installed before the BoT got fussy and stayed there thereafter. Similarly, facing turnouts, which the slip and associated turnout are.

 

Not wanting to sidetrack the thread further, but those houses with the shared window are in a street which is all listed Grade II. Originally the top floor would not have been part of the houses but would haveb been open working spaces for the local textile industry. Our house was the same, but like all of them in the road the top floors have been divided and made part of the houses. Definitely not upmarket though some houses round here have very fancy door cases and porches - status symbols I suspect.

 

And on tickets, if more recent experience is anything to go by, when the fare went up it was changed by hand on the ticket - why waste good tickets? So I guess "Parly" tickets could have carried on being used for years, especially for the less popular journeys. I'm sure I have read of Pre-Grouping tickets still in use after Nationalisation.

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

I don't think a branch would have worked anyway by 1895 as I think the BoT would have wanted a double junction if there was a passenger line involved. But you could make the sidings asymmetric and have some plain line between the station and the fiddle yard at the right hand side. I am also slightly suspicious about the double slip in the running lines, though they certainly happened - probably the were installed before the BoT got fussy and stayed there thereafter. Similarly, facing turnouts, which the slip and associated turnout are.

 

Not wanting to sidetrack the thread further, but those houses with the shared window are in a street which is all listed Grade II. Originally the top floor would not have been part of the houses but would haveb been open working spaces for the local textile industry. Our house was the same, but like all of them in the road the top floors have been divided and made part of the houses. Definitely not upmarket though some houses round here have very fancy door cases and porches - status symbols I suspect.

 

And on tickets, if more recent experience is anything to go by, when the fare went up it was changed by hand on the ticket - why waste good tickets? So I guess "Parly" tickets could have carried on being used for years, especially for the less popular journeys. I'm sure I have read of Pre-Grouping tickets still in use after Nationalisation.

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

The discussion about the houses is fine.  It is not directly relevant, at the moment, but in terms of information the more the merrier so to speak.

 

Track; I will have to look at what you mean about the siding on the right, do you mean the new one or the one connected to the main line?  The double slip is a single slip and my impression was that the Cambrian had those all over the place, but I am willing to be corrected.  I have tried to copy Cambrian station line diagrams when drawing this out so I think it is fairly typical, but again I might have misunderstood.

 

As for tickets that is very interesting and no, I am not going to try and have hand written corrections on the tickets in my ticket office.   

[ChrisN]

On Tuesday I bought some new matt varnish and last night pained the other side of the door.  It is not fully covered so I will give it another coat and see what it looks like, and then I will attack the chairs, and the table.  However my wife suggested that I can take the put you up bed/settee apart to enable me to put the last board of the layout up, so that is what I am about to do.  So a couple of more track plans.

 

Here is one that gains me about 4 inches on the fiddleyard.

 

 

Not a lot for the extra effort.  Then there is this one which is a hybrid between the two.

 

 

I have also cleaned up the curves and things.  Just to make things clear the running line from the station is on the outside, the one connected directly to the single slip and the curved point is a siding, as per Barmouth, and elsewhere.

 

Comments always appreciated.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[corneliuslundie]

That's exactly what I meant about the fiddle yard. It gives a bit of separation between the station throat and the fiddle yard.

 

Not sure what you mean about the lines through the station, though. In the time I have known Barmouth it has been double line through the station with a platform on each line and a bay on the down side. I suspect it was double line block between the two boxes. But there certainly were stations with a single platform and a goods loop as you suggest, so your layout is fine, but the signalling will be different.

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

That's exactly what I meant about the fiddle yard. It gives a bit of separation between the station throat and the fiddle yard.

 

Not sure what you mean about the lines through the station, though. In the time I have known Barmouth it has been double line through the station with a platform on each line and a bay on the down side. I suspect it was double line block between the two boxes. But there certainly were stations with a single platform and a goods loop as you suggest, so your layout is fine, but the signalling will be different.

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  I think this is the best I can do.  On the left hand side I am going to try and have the school on some rising ground so it should just disappear behind that, hopefully.  Also it means that the cork I have already laid should be fine.  I just need to buy some more points now.  I also have four that I will not need.  My only worry is that the four lines on the left are a bit close but I will have to tweak them when I lay the track.

 

It will be a double line through the station with a platform on both sides but I do not have the length for the double line to extend further than the platforms.  There was a station further along from Barmouth that had two lines and one platform, and Harlech had a goods loop that went behind one of the platforms.  Almost unbelievable, but I suppose they only had a narrow strip of land to use, either because of the rising gradient from the coast or that they could not afford to buy it any wider.

Edited March 26, 2015 by ChrisN

[ChrisN]

I have just looked at the track plans for Barmout, south and north, and guess what, there is no loop siding, just the double line through the station.  There is though a double slip. I thought the Cambrian preferred single slips but as this is from the bay at the south side it was probably put I by the GWR even though the track plan is labelled as Cambrian.  The track plan that I cannot put in that does have a loop like mine and also is an exchange siding is at Towyn/Tywyn. (Sorry the layout is Victorian so the Welsh spellings are English, if that makes sense.) 

 

I hope that makes my thought processes clear, if not, not to worry, it made sense to me at the time and I thought I had it right.

Edited March 26, 2015 by ChrisN

[corneliuslundie]

The up bay was certainly later and I think was put in to avoid having to open the north box on Sundays (and to have to operate the crossing gates). I assume that the south box by the crossing controlled access from the south although it was some way from the turnout at the start of the loop.

 

Incidentally, I have been wondering about the purpose of the down bay. Was it used for down trains starting from Barmouth or was it just for parcels traffic etc? I really don't know. You may know if at your period any down trains started from Barmouth. Presumably they would then have called at Traeth Mawr.

 

There are still some nice original Coast line buildings at Barmouth and Portmadoc. I think Aberdovey and Newtown are similar. All have or had distinctive canopies. Newtown also still has a very old timber shelter on the down platform which would make a nice model. I can take some photos of it if you would find them useful.

 

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

The up bay was certainly later and I think was put in to avoid having to open the north box on Sundays (and to have to operate the crossing gates). I assume that the south box by the crossing controlled access from the south although it was some way from the turnout at the start of the loop.

 

Incidentally, I have been wondering about the purpose of the down bay. Was it used for down trains starting from Barmouth or was it just for parcels traffic etc? I really don't know. You may know if at your period any down trains started from Barmouth. Presumably they would then have called at Traeth Mawr.

 

There are still some nice original Coast line buildings at Barmouth and Portmadoc. I think Aberdovey and Newtown are similar. All have or had distinctive canopies. Newtown also still has a very old timber shelter on the down platform which would make a nice model. I can take some photos of it if you would find them useful.

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you again.  If I remember rightly the up bay was put in by the GWR and I think I have seen a picture of a Dolgelley train in it.  My single slip is so that the sidings can be accessed from the Up platform but a train in the bay cannot leave by that siding.

 

I have had a look at the timetables I have seen but there appears to be nothing starting from Barmouth at that time.  Maybe it was an earlier idea.  I seem to remember the 'steam coach', sorry cannot remember the proper name, that ran in the summer in the early 1900s.  It may have run from Barmouth to Porthmadog but I will have to go and check.

 

There are lots of pictures of the coast line buildings, including Tywyn in various books, plus you can still see Barmouth and Tywyn, looking in a very sorry state, on Google street view.  I think as buildings they are pretty boring just being plain rectangles mostly, but the canopies are different with their supports that have fish like holes in them.  I have looked at a couple of photos of a down platform building which I will definitely want to model, even though some stations did not have anything.  Now if you happen to be out for a walk with your camera, and it is not stopping you building wagons or editing various magazines then I would be grareful for pictures of the shelter at Newton.

 

Finally, I received Caerwys, the Cambrian Village today.  I won it on eBay.  It was fairly cheap but the person who sold it to me did not explain that the last two chapters were missing and were replaced by two previous chapters.  I will not be sending it back, just not leaving positive feedback.  It has some nice pictures though.

[ChrisN]

Last night, after encouragement from my wife to take apart the put you up bed/settee I finally got the last board up.  This is the first time that it has all been up together.  It needs to be up for all the cork to go down and then the track to be put on.  So far no one has told me they are coming for Easter.     You may see that there is not much room around it, but it fits, honest.  Also if you look out of the window you will not be able to see the flag pole with the Cross of St George that is in the garden of the house you can see.

 

 

It is fairly sturdy and solid but I will do a few modifications to make it easier, plus as Neil, Anotheran), suggested I will need to protect the dowels.  The screw feet have been useful too as I thought the floor was level, but maybe not.

 

One fly in the ointment.

 

 

Both sides at the short join are about 2mm lower on one side.  The long sides appear fine.  Obviously they were not as flat as I thought when I drilled the fixing holes.  I am not pleased but my wife made kind remarks like, "You have never done anything like this before."  It is not the end of the world, as the journalist said about the failure to get an arms control agreement in the 80s, as I will shave the cork or something similar so that the track is level.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Donw]

Chris try puting a strip of balsa or thick card along the lower edge then stick the cork down . A change of level in plain track usually causes no problem but at a track joint is a real pain.

Don

[ChrisN]

Chris try puting a strip of balsa or thick card along the lower edge then stick the cork down . A change of level in plain track usually causes no problem but at a track joint is a real pain.

Don

 

Don,

Thank you.  That would be better than trying to thin one side down.  I had plenty of card so I might do that.  I have some thin birch ply but card would be cheaper.

[Anotheran]

Both sides at the short join are about 2mm lower on one side.  The long sides appear fine.  Obviously they were not as flat as I thought when I drilled the fixing holes. 

 

Just a quick thought Chris. If both short edges are out by 2mm is it possibly because you've transposed two of the boards...

That would be that when you drilled them you had them in the order:

[A]

[C][D]

and now you've put them in the order

[A][C]

[D]

Of course, I'm probably completely wrong there and if you transposed them before then drilling for the dowel on the long sides then that won't help at all!

 

Great to see the progress though. And on screw threaded legs... I've bought mine already as I'm sure I'd never find a level floor to put it on!

Edited March 30, 2015 by Anotheran

[ChrisN]

 

Just a quick thought Chris. If both short edges are out by 2mm is it possibly because you've transposed two of the boards...

That would be that when you drilled them you had them in the order:

[A]

[C][D]

and now you've put them in the order

[A][C]

[D]

Of course, I'm probably completely wrong there and if you transposed them before then drilling for the dowel on the long sides then that won't help at all!

 

Great to see the progress though. And on screw threaded legs... I've bought mine already as I'm sure I'd never find a level floor to put it on!

 

Neil,

Thank you.  I am nearly too clever for that.     I have marked three boards out of the four with arrows so that I know which one fits to which.  I did not do the fourth!  I am not sure why.  However I have labelled them 1,2,3,4 although when I came back after a while I had to remind myself which was which.  I also have labelled the legs, right back middle back etc.  So no problem?  Umm, the two end front ones I had to swop over, and do they go bracing out or in?  I thought it was out, but at one end it is one way and at the other.......... it is the other way. 

 

In BRM this month, I do not usually but any mags but it has a VIDEO on SOLDERING.  In BRM they are reviewing bought modular baseboards, for and I quote, "people, (like CHRISN), who haver never done any woodwork in their life". 

 

Back to what you said, both boards are too low so I did set them up correctly in terms of position to each other, just that somehow they were not at the same height, probably because I did it with them on their tops not on their sides.  I will know if I ever do it again.  Must go and add cardboard to the board to level it up.

[Anotheran]

Thank you.  I am nearly too clever for that.

 

I did assume that wouldn't be the case, but thought I should mention it as on DE I have a nice pencil written reminder of my skill in planning and carrying out that plan... On one of the boards I have the carefully drilled bolt holes cutting through my earlier written "OUTSIDE END". It's now the inside end! It's in pencil, and could easily be erased, but I thought I'd leave it there as a reminder that even when I label things well; I really ought to remember to read the labels before I cut or drill 

[Stubby47]

Hopefully when you get the track on, which board goes where should be obvious...

[ChrisN]

I did assume that wouldn't be the case, but thought I should mention it as on DE I have a nice pencil written reminder of my skill in planning and carrying out that plan... On one of the boards I have the carefully drilled bolt holes cutting through my earlier written "OUTSIDE END". It's now the inside end! It's in pencil, and could easily be erased, but I thought I'd leave it there as a reminder that even when I label things well; I really ought to remember to read the labels before I cut or drill 

 

Neil,

Someone has to ask the 'stupid' question, or rather perhaps the obvious question because sometimes..........

[ChrisN]

Hopefully when you get the track on, which board goes where should be obvious...

 

Stu,

Yes it should be, and hopefully once I have put the cork down.  I did work out fairly early on that I needed to mark the boards, when I thought about it that is. 

[ChrisN]

Well, I ought to get back to the title at the moment.  I bought some fresh Matt Varnish and varnished the chairs.  It took at least two coats and showed up floors in the painting.  The problem with Humbrol 10 Service Brown is that it is very gloss and I could not tell which was shine and which was white showing through.  They are inside a house so I am not duly worried. 

 

I use Service Brown as it is the darkest brown Humbrol do and I think it gives that dark brown colour of wood really well.  I have looked at a colour chart and I will see if I can get a similar non gloss colour in another range.

 

Here they are in all their, well I would rather not say.

 

 

I have not straightened them up as I thought I would do.  It got lost during the painting and the gloss not working.  Just to show they work, here they are doing what they were designed for.

 

 

On the left is Mr Langley, in the middle is Mrs Aiden Campbell and on the right is Edwina Plunkett.  It looks a bit like a doctor's waiting room which is a good job really as Mr Langley and Mrs Campbell have come to ask about having their paint job finished and Edwina has come about the wart that has appeared on her cheek.

 

You know when people get married, well meaning relatives give them furniture that is just a little too big for the house, well it has happened to this couple.  They have been given a table.

 

 

But more of that another time.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Donw]

Great Stuff CHris I have to remind myself this is 4mm not 7mm.

 

Don

[ChrisN]

Great Stuff CHris I have to remind myself this is 4mm not 7mm.

 

Don

 

Don,

Thanks, I should have at least straightened up one of those chairs though.

[Alister_G]

Hi Chris,

 

I haven't been on here for a while, so I've just spent a happy half hour catching up.

 

Absolutely love the furniture, it looks spot on, and great to see the baseboards (even with the slight issue).

 

Your figure painting is excellent, and I thought that the staff photo in front of the loco was quintessentially Victorian, brilliant!

 

Looking forward to more,

 

Al.

[ChrisN]

Al,

Thanks.  It means a lot when someone who produces models like you do thinks mine are alright.  I do not comment much on yours mainly because it would all be the same, "brilliant," "amazing", "Wow!" etc and I would prefer to add something more than that.

[ChrisN]

In case you are worried that this thread is descending into a miniature doll's house topic then I will start by saying that my new track, the extra curved points, arrived on Monday.  I looked at them and thought, "I have ordered the wrong ones!"  Fortunately my heart is still strong enough to deal with things like this so rather than going to Casualty I went upstairs and checked my plan.  I am very careful when I order things and for something like this I will write down what I want, check it and then go away for a day or two and then do it again and make sure it is the same.  You see, I know myself too well.  I got to the railway room and found that I had remembered what I wanted incorrectly so what had been delivered was correct.  Yea!  As I progress I will post more of what I am doing.  Given that I have never done this before it should be 'quite interesting'.

 

I left you with this picture of our newly weds room with table. 

 

 

So from the top, which shows the chairs in far too much detail.

 

 

The top is 30 thou Plasticard which I have scribed using a Stanley knife.

 

Now the underneath.

 

 

The legs are Evergreen 1 x 2mm strips.  There is a spacer in the middle of each pair of legs.  I worked out how high it should be by measuring the height of my table at home and scaling it down.  I then calculated, (no probably guessed), how long the legs should be and cut one with angled ends.  I then used this as a template for the others and glued using Plastic Weld.  It took a little trimming of legs at either end to get it right as I had guessed the angle.  I then used a 2 x 2mm Evergreen strip for the spacing bar.

 

The lot was painted in Humbrol 10 Service Brown and given two coats of Matt Varnish.  I thought I had copied an actual design but I did not download a picture and cannot find one easily so I may well have mixed up more than one design.  Why am I so vague?  I actually did this before the chairs but I thought that I ought to share the chairs first.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Edited April 2, 2015 by ChrisN

[RSLR]

Al,

Thanks.  It means a lot when someone who produces models like you do thinks mine are alright.  I do not comment much on yours mainly because it would all be the same, "brilliant," "amazing", "Wow!" etc and I would prefer to add something more than that.

... *views layout topic*   Learns how to make foxgloves from crayons and wire