Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[Anotheran]

Oh, I thought the divide was North South ? 

As someone born in Llanelli I fully agree with the message on the Scarlets stand... "West is best"

[Penlan]

As someone born in Llanelli I fully agree with the message on the Scarlets stand... "West is best"

Oh, you mean CORNWALL..... 

Edited July 18, 2015 by Penlan

[Anotheran]

Oh, you mean CORNWALL..... 

Well it was called West Wales by the English until they conquered it. It was only when the English reached the Bristol Channel that the West Welsh and the Welsh were separated... but no I didn't mean that on this occasion ☺

[emt_911]

As someone born in Llanelli I fully agree with the message on the Scarlets stand... "West is best"

Where's the disagree button when you need it

[Edwardian]

Chris, I meant to ask, what sleeper spacing did you go for in the end?

[ChrisN]

Chris, I meant to ask, what sleeper spacing did you go for in the end?

 

Hi,

I have gone with 5.5mm.  I have only laid one scenic piece so far and I have just gone to check that I was not mistaken.  The section is a curve and it is best to say it is an average of 5.5mm for both the track and the template.

[Penlan]

'Way out West', one of the best of the Laurel & Hardy films....
Oh, what's it to do with this topic, well nothing really, a couple of words, perhaps..

... and of course that lovely Welsh lady, Cerys Matthews (BBCRadio 6, Music on Sunday mornings)

who chatted about L&H this morning, but otherwise, zilch.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Penlan

[ChrisN]

'Way out West', one of the best of the Laurel & Hardy films....

Oh, what's it to do with this topic, well nothing really, a couple of words, perhaps..

... and of course that lovely Welsh lady, Cerys Matthews (BBCRadio 6, Music on Sunday mornings)

who chatted about L&H this morning, but otherwise, zilch.

 

Was that the one where they sang 'The Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia'?  I saw it at 'Saturday Morning Pictures' pre Christmas 1962.  I know it was before then as it was a 20 minute walk to the Regal Edmonton and my mum would not let me walk there in the snow that came that year.  I do not think I went back afterwards, but I might have done; it is just too long ago to remember.

 

It case you are thinking this is just to hide the lack of modelling, some is happening but very slowly.  Bodging, (chair making), and figure painting, but nothing worth showing yet.

[corneliuslundie]

As far as the Welsh language is concerned there seem to be three variants: north, south and west. That's forgetting the odd variants in places like north east Wales.

 

More or less back on topic, I have just borrowed from the library "Victorian and Edwardian Wales from old photographs" by E D Jones (Batsford, 1972). Lots of photographs of normal Welsh people going about their business, from 1860 to the First World War. Some nice market photos, including one of Newtown in which I can almost see our house in the distance.

 

Slightly more off topic but I was entranced by a photo in the above book of Lady Charlotte Guest giving prizes at a school in Dowlais, as I am currently reading her diaries for entries of railway interest. She was a very shrewd commentator and a well educated and talented woman.

 

Jonathan

[BG John]

As far as the Welsh language is concerned there seem to be three variants: north, south and west. That's forgetting the odd variants in places like north east Wales.

Three variants? When I started Welsh lessons, the teacher said that as we were in Newcastle Emlyn she'd teach us Welsh as spoken there, rather than the version spoken eight miles away in Llandysul. As I live two miles from Newcastle Emlyn and six from Llandysul, maybe I should have been learning a bit of both! Not that it would have helped, as my addled English brain couldn't cope after four lessons!! But the point she was making was that the language can vary between different towns even now, so there must have been even bigger differences over 100 years ago.

[Edwardian]

I grew up on the borders of Danegeld.  Inhabitants of the village 2 miles distant from ours spoke with a markedly different accent.  This village's name had the 'by' ending associated with Viking settlements.  Our village bore a name of Anglo-Saxon origin. I persist in the fanciful notion of a causal link between the differing accents and the differing origins of these two settlements.

[ChrisN]

Jonathan,

I think that is a book I should look out for; it sounds interesting.

 

Jonathan, John and Edwardian,

If you know what to listen for you can tell which part of London people came from by their accent, in fact Dagenham at one point had an accent all of its own with its own words.

 

I was very interested when I went to Hereford a few years back, there were three distinct accents.  The Welsh accent, an ordinary persons English accent and a posh English accent.  There was quite a marked difference between people who had lived in the place for probably hundreds of years.  In general, and of course all generalisations are false, accents will vary gradually as you move between places, even if the words used are specific to that district,

 

Having said that my Welsh neighbour who comes from, I think Swansea, took great delight in pronouncing Pwllhelli correctly when I told him where a package had come from, but perhaps the people from Pwllhelli would disagree.

[Edwardian]

I went to Hereford once.  Regimental ball.  All the chaps had black rectangles over their eyes.  Most off putting.

 

I went to Swansea once.  Monumental Mumbles pub crawl.

 

I went to Cardiff once (changing trains on a Sunday).  It was closed.

[ChrisN]

Before I turn to modelling, which tonight is cutting little bits from the bottom of Peco track, I need to write about paths.  I said a few posts back that I thought that the paths in Victorian houses were sand and cement as that was the path to the house I was living in was such and so was the small garden.  Edwardian's comments made me feel that I ought to try and check, if possible.  I started and the Barmouth site I have quoted before and the Town album.  (I have limited band width tonight so I will put them in later, or try googling Huw Griffiths Barmouth.)  It is quite annoying that the Victorians did not make a habit of photographing their front paths, although I have seen a number of poorer houses that had stones, either large like stepping stones, or smaller ones in their paths.  Some paths between poorer houses had the same smaller stones, maybe fist sized in them.

 

What was clear was that the main streets appeared to be made of stone, and they had pavements either side, but not pavements as you know it, (Jim).  They were not always the same size on either side of the road, neither did they mark the edge of where traffic might traverse.  The lamp posts and trees did this but they could be two or three feet further towards the middle.  (I will link eventually.)  Some roads only had them on one side.  Model that ad see what people say!

 

I did eventually find some pictures of paths.  One was an amateur picture of a lady in Bourenmouth, standing on her brick path with the bricks lined up side by side longways down the path, the other was as Penlan said of a herringbone pattern of tiles on a base of some sort.  Now, I half remember these outside some houses and I do remember clearly that they had the same pattern, or small square tiles laid as diamonds on the steps.  I continued to look but on some street views that paths appeared to be the same as the road. 

 

Obviously I have not carried out an extensive search, neither have I read many tomes on the subject but I can say that paths were varied and differed with who built the house and what part of the country you were in.  (Who said scholarship was dead?)  I will continue to look but also I shall now annoy my wife further because as I drive around I shall not just look at patterns of houses but also if the paths are original.  (Will you keep your eyes on the road!)

 

What does this mean for Traeth Mawr?  I will need to dig out the Council archives, and any pictures that are available, but I am fairly certain that at least some of the houses had tiles of various shapes and perhaps there were some bricks as well.  The problem with that is I only have computer punch card holes, not chads.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

Edit: To put in links.

Edited July 21, 2015 by ChrisN

[Penlan]

If your looking for Welsh farm carts?
There's a couple on here http://www.scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk/(farm%20carts).htm

The originals are at St. Fagan's.
I know of one modeller who's done the Gambo's.

[aberdare]

Hi Chris

 

Back to paths/pavements for a moment.

I popped up to our church this morning where there is a history and display of this village. I spent a fair bit of time perusing the old photographs c1900 supplied by older village members for information.

 

A long way from Wales I know but interesting all the same. The main road (to Scarborough) is as you say stone decorated with copious amounts of dung on the up and down sides, the pavements seem to have a large stone edging and possibly a fine stone infill to the cottage walls (no front gardens along here), I'm assuming fine stone as I can see no evidence of of larger stones and it is not smooth. They do look cleaner and in better condition than the present time though, proud villagers no doubt.

 

Away from the main street there are no pavements and the road surface and garden paths all seem to blend seamlessly between small grass verges. On these minor roads everyone seems to walk in the middle of them, much like they do now.

 

One final note, there were no street lamps, much too rural I guess.

[ChrisN]

If your looking for Welsh farm carts?

There's a couple on here http://www.scalemodelhorsedrawnvehicle.co.uk/(farm%20carts).htm

The originals are at St. Fagan's.

I know of one modeller who's done the Gambo's.

 

Penlan,

Well I wasn't, for several reasons.  One being having gone to a local museum of rural life I was introduced to the fact that every area had different carts, or different types of the same cart, i.e., a hay cart in East Anglia is very different to a hay cart in the south of England.  Therefore as I had no idea of what Welsh carts were like I had dismissed the thought of having one.

 

However, along station Road there will be a parade so I have thoughts about what might be going the other way towards the market square.  The scenery and people will have to be moveable anyway so when the parade is not there it would be interesting.

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris

 

Back to paths/pavements for a moment.

I popped up to our church this morning where there is a history and display of this village. I spent a fair bit of time perusing the old photographs c1900 supplied by older village members for information.

 

A long way from Wales I know but interesting all the same. The main road (to Scarborough) is as you say stone decorated with copious amounts of dung on the up and down sides, the pavements seem to have a large stone edging and possibly a fine stone infill to the cottage walls (no front gardens along here), I'm assuming fine stone as I can see no evidence of of larger stones and it is not smooth. They do look cleaner and in better condition than the present time though, proud villagers no doubt.

 

Away from the main street there are no pavements and the road surface and garden paths all seem to blend seamlessly between small grass verges. On these minor roads everyone seems to walk in the middle of them, much like they do now.

 

One final note, there were no street lamps, much too rural I guess.

 

Jim,

To be honest probably much the same as the back of Barmouth away from the new building.  (Un)Fortunately I can only do the road near the railway although it would be an interesting challenge to do further back.

[Penlan]

........ along station Road there will be a parade so I have thoughts about what might be going the other way towards the market square.  The scenery and people will have to be moveable anyway so when the parade is not there it would be interesting.

I have memories of model railway articles from long ago, I think they were entitled 'or-to-go'..

The parade would be moving along..   

So long ago, but most communities had parades, carnivals etc., then the motor age made things a little difficult, but nothing compared with the H&S rules... But on the remote west Wales coastline, it could be Rio...   

Our Village had hoped to revive some form of Carnival Parade this year, BUT it's been dogged by so many questions, forms etc., that it looks like an absolute no, no.

.

PS. - The 'Arousal Cafe' in Barmouth, so what do the use ???????

 

PPS. Was there a local removal firm that might have had something like this

 

Edited July 21, 2015 by Penlan

[Penlan]

Nice photo of some Barmouth Ladies, taken by 'H.Owen of Barmouth'.
Could be fun altering some of Andrew Stadden's Edwardian figures. 

See separate topic at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74787-4mm-edwardian-figures/ )

.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Penlan

[Edwardian]

What Sigmund Freud described as "Brunel Envy"

[Penlan]

I've been looking through the online local Newspaper archives at National Library of Wales, but haven't spotted a Barmouth based removals firm, unfortunately I don't have a Ward Locke Barmouth Guide to check if there's one listed.
The Archives are around here http://newspapers.library.wales/view/3305807 and http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4010867
Probably of no help, but as the topic seems to have it's own life now...... 

Edited July 21, 2015 by Penlan

[Donw]

I can remember one trip into Wales three of us walking up Snowden, one dressed in jeans and leather jacket and what was known as the bee jumper (yellow and black stripes), one wearing Suede Tassled boots and jacket a cap and a silk scarf muffler, the third a souvenir Welsh ladies hat and a velvet table cover as a cloak. Everyone else was in proper hiking gear they seemed dumbstruck at the three of us appearing out of the mist. It was clear as a bell on the top. It was the last train of the last day of the service that year so we rode back down. I just wonder what some historian might make of that in the future.

Personally I blame the beer or something.  

Sorry about the topic drift it was just the picture brought it back. You could really have done with someone like Roye England to study the Welsh villagescape anyone for a Welsh equivalent of Pendon.

Don

[ChrisN]

I have memories of model railway articles from long ago, I think they were entitled 'or-to-go'..

The parade would be moving along..   

So long ago, but most communities had parades, carnivals etc., then the motor age made things a little difficult, but nothing compared with the H&S rules... But on the remote west Wales coastline, it could be Rio...   

Our Village had hoped to revive some form of Carnival Parade this year, BUT it's been dogged by so many questions, forms etc., that it looks like an absolute no, no.

.

PS. - The 'Arousal Cafe' in Barmouth, so what do the use ???????

 

PPS. Was there a local removal firm that might have had something like this

 

Removal Van Oswestry.jpg

 

 

Nice photo of some Barmouth Ladies, taken by 'H.Owen of Barmouth'.

Could be fun altering some of Andrew Stadden's Edwardian figures. 

See separate topic at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74787-4mm-edwardian-figures/ )

.

Barmouth Ladies.jpg

 

Penlan,

The parade will be the military one using the soldiers I have more or less already painted.  By moveable I mean I will have to be able to take them off and there will I think now a traffic jam or people wanting to get out of the station.  However, as I will be able to take them off I may remove them and have other things there.  Do not ask me how I will do it, that is a question for a later date.

 

I have not seen the 'Arousal Café', I must look again.

 

There may not be one in Barmouth, but there could well be a removal firm in Traeth Mawr.  I must look out for something to make, convert.  (I must remember I have a railway to build!)

 

There is one lady in the working class figures who could be converted into a lady in Welsh costume as she has the shawl, it would just need the hat.  The standing lady has already been painted although I suppose I could add the hat.  The sitting lady has not been touched so I could do her.  I would not try and cut the Stadden figures as they are pewter but adding DAS, or FIMO or Milliput is possible.  Also I am not sure if the younger ladies wore this costume as much as the older ones.  Have I not seen a lady in Welsh costume somewhere?  I mean a model figure made by a company.

[ChrisN]

I can remember one trip into Wales three of us walking up Snowden, one dressed in jeans and leather jacket and what was known as the bee jumper (yellow and black stripes), one wearing Suede Tassled boots and jacket a cap and a silk scarf muffler, the third a souvenir Welsh ladies hat and a velvet table cover as a cloak. Everyone else was in proper hiking gear they seemed dumbstruck at the three of us appearing out of the mist. It was clear as a bell on the top. It was the last train of the last day of the service that year so we rode back down. I just wonder what some historian might make of that in the future.

Personally I blame the beer or something.  

Sorry about the topic drift it was just the picture brought it back. You could really have done with someone like Roye England to study the Welsh villagescape anyone for a Welsh equivalent of Pendon.

Don

 

Don,

I would ask which way you went up but you may not remember.  I remember going up once and someone tried to go back on the train and they said it was not allowed.  I presume when you went the train was half empty.

 

I think it would be interesting to have a Welsh Pendon but the country then was so varied, that you could have a Pendon sent anywhere in the four countries and each would be different with the different roofing, fencing and farming.