Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[corneliuslundie]

"I don't know if they are in a position to sell a copy."

The HMRS M&SC is closed at the moment along with the rest of the MRT site. The only orders which can be processed are transfers, as they are done from the Transfer Sales Manager's home, and prints from digital photographs.

Jonathan

[Simond]

and yet, given the exquisite drawing and the level of detail, were there any brake gear, it would have been shown.  One must therefore conclude that this is a luxuriously appointed death-trap.

 

aaah, the good old days...

[ChrisN]

4 hours ago, Bedders said:

Glad to see this is back on your table, shocked at how expensive it is now on Shapeways! A contemporary design drawing, though not showing any brake gear.

 

Bedders,

Thank you this is very helpful.  Two things I have noticed immediately.  Firstly, the steps under the doors are just that, there is no extended footboard.  I have done those before but getting them to stay is the issue.  As I type I realise that I am buying a T piece for this, all will be revealed eventually but if I go with this more of it will be cut away.  I know the BoT disliked these as they were not as safe as extended ones.  The question is, when were they changed.  I will assume that if it still has oil lamps it will have individual steps.  The second is the height of the seats.  I use the ratio seats and wonder if they are too tall and if I should cut the top bit off, although I am not going to shape the individual seats.  I will have a go at the seat partitions.  Please do not tell me that they are a regular feature of MSLR First compartments built later in the century.  The height of the seat back in the third class is higher than I would have thought, certainly higher than the LBSCR seat back I have made.  Also, the photo showed the seat back in the Second Class compartment and the information I have states that the Third Class just had bench seats so I would have assumed that they had no backs.  I note with some slight annoyance, (not really), that there are arms at the sides of the compartment, in all compartments.  Fortunately my order for the plastrut timed out last night so I can put some half rod on it.

 

I put my Stanley knife behind the well stuck in seats, so I thought and they all came out without too much pain.  The First Class seats I did not touch but I may just do so the reduce their height.

[richard i]

A lot of 4 wheelers did not have brakes to start with, though as I model post 1900 I had to fit them to my gcr 4 wheel carriages 

when the change happened I am not entirely sure, I just know....before I model. 
richard 

[ChrisN]

5 minutes ago, richard i said:

A lot of 4 wheelers did not have brakes to start with, though as I model post 1900 I had to fit them to my gcr 4 wheel carriages 

when the change happened I am not entirely sure, I just know....before I model. 
richard 

 

Richard,

Thank you.

 

The Railways Regulation Act of 1889 insisted that all trains were through braked.  Companies moved at different speeds to implement this.  The Cambrian was particularly slow as it meant doing away with mixed trains, the coaches often being at the back!  By 1895 they claimed they only had two trains a day that were not through braked.  I assume, and hope, that they used what was left of the original 1860s outside framed stock, none of which survived to grouping and probably went soon after 1895 as they were too old to convert.  I think a company like the MSLR which had grand ideas would comply fairly quickly.  It Is less likely that they added brakes but did not at the same time renew the steps and change the lighting to gas, but that they did is undisputable as I have will have photographic evidence of one in this condition in 1895 at Traeth Mawr.  

[ChrisN]

I have been doing a little modelling so here is an update.  It is not, as you might expect, an update about the MSLR Tri-composite.  I put that in to gain information, of which I got more than I bargained.  However, orders have been put in and a package from Roxey Mouldings and one from Gaugemaster mean I have the bits to continue with it so my post was successful.  

 

This post is about a 5and9 Models carriage truck.  You may wonder why, and you may ask why have I started something new when the whole idea was that I finished something, in fact anything.  Well, although the truck is new, it is part of Lord Somebody's, (sorry Gary I have forgot his name), set of coaches and trucks that turn up from Oak Hill in the middle of the day.  The Saloon First is in the paint shop waiting for, er well, to be painted.  It is getting bored so the steps are drawing lots as to which will be the next one to fall off when I pick it up.  The Stroudley Brake Third is waiting for Shellac.  I could wait until the lockdown is over and buy some for a tenner, or order the same stuff from Amazon for about sixteen quid.  I can wait.  So, the carriage truck is next up.

 

It is again ancient, as befits the rest of the train.  You may ask why but the Lord Somebody has particularly hired these vehicles as his father hired them to go on honeymoon.  This is not his honeymoon but he is doing it for nostalgic reasons.  His wife thinks he is daft, but just smiles sweetly.

 

 

The kit is fairly simple and is whitemetal.  A floor is not supplied so has to be made from plastic or brass.  It is of course better if you remember to do it before you have glued it together.  It came apart fairly easily, but of course it is easier to scribe the planks before it is glued in.  Not doing very well really.

 

 

 

The springs and axle boxes went on next.  It is the first time that I have had a set of springs and axleboxes that do not actually sit hard next to the W irons with the bearings inside the axlebox.  It is also the first time that the rocking mechanism of the W irons will actually work and not be fixed solid.  I would have thought it wrong except Gary on one of his Livestreams, (see, I do watch sometimes),  was soldering springs and axleboxes on a similar kit and it was the same.  I did notice the next day as I picked it up and knocked a spring off that it was not very solid.  I therefore drilled each end of each spring and into the solebar and inserted a small brass rod in the hope of adding a bit of strength.

 

 

Here are the W irons, and you can see where I drilled.  They are not visible when it is the right way up.

 

 

The instructions say to open out the holes for the buffers quite early on.  I went at them with my broaches, and to check how it was going I tried to fit a buffer until it actually went in.  The trouble was that I broke the buffer so I only had three.  As I was now experienced drilling whitemetal and fixing things with brass rod I have done that with the buffer.  You can just about make out the brass rod masquerading as a line on the cutting board.  Quick Competition.

 

Did I do this because,

a) I could and why not?

b) I was too tight to buy 12 more buffers and only use one?

c) I did not know Gary's address to send him the other eleven?

d) all of the above?

 

Now a question.  I have a Brougham to put on it.

 

 

 

Do not gasp, I built this at least 15 years ago and it is still not finished.  It is the two horse version and unfortunately the shaft is not removeable.  The kit comes with two sets of front axles, the other is for a single horse.  Now I am reluctant to cut off the shaft, so my question is, is it held on in real fife by a chain or is it solid with the front axels?  If it is solid, can the wheels be turned around to have the shaft under the carriage.  Will you notice if I do that anyway until I find the other front end?

 

 

Here it is with the brass cut to size, primed and ready for the paint shop.  I know it needs chains and hooks and final fittings to fit the carriage but I need to buy the chains and I need to see before I buy so it may be a while.  The wheels look to small to me and I have just realised I was going to check the ride height against the coach but have forgotten.  It may look different once it has been painted but I went down the paint shop the other day and was not impressed by what I saw.

 

 

It may be a while yet I think.

 

Finally, I need an LBSCR horse box, but a modern one.  1895 being modern that is.  It needs to be braked so at least the horse does not get thrown about.  If you know of a kit please let me know.  Thank you.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Simond]

Chris,

 

the wheels on your truck surely are too small if the axleboxes are dragging along the six-foot...

 

as regards the brougham, I had to go looking, and Google (images) Is a friend.  I found a couple.  

 

One shows a sort of socket into which the shaft appears to fit.  
 

The other (and I’m more inclined to this one) shows the shaft as the upright of a capital “T”, where the crossbar is fitted with iron hooks which engage on the axle assembly, to hinge the shaft so it can rise & fall with the horses.  This seems to me to be vital.  The crossbar and shaft were also connected with iron diagonal struts, again, vital I think.

 

try “doverhistorian” 

 

in conclusion, I’d cut it off, and stow it on the wagon, suitably chained!

 

atb

Simon

[ChrisN]

2 hours ago, Simond said:

Chris,

 

the wheels on your truck surely are too small if the axleboxes are dragging along the six-foot...

 

as regards the brougham, I had to go looking, and Google (images) Is a friend.  I found a couple.  

 

One shows a sort of socket into which the shaft appears to fit.  
 

The other (and I’m more inclined to this one) shows the shaft as the upright of a capital “T”, where the crossbar is fitted with iron hooks which engage on the axle assembly, to hinge the shaft so it can rise & fall with the horses.  This seems to me to be vital.  The crossbar and shaft were also connected with iron diagonal struts, again, vital I think.

 

try “doverhistorian” 

 

in conclusion, I’d cut it off, and stow it on the wagon, suitably chained!

 

atb

Simon

 

Simon,

Thank you.  As you live in Kent perhaps it directed you to a local site.  I did google but did not come up with anything as useful.  I did find the carriages without any shafts, and single horse ones with the shafts up but nothing for two horses, hence the question.  I am just a little reluctant to cut it.  I shall take a deep breath and get on with it.

[Simond]

Chris,

 

In absence of photos of something more like your brougham, you could model this, I think.

 

http://www.oxbowwagonsandcoaches.com/horse-drawn-vehicle-parts.html

 

hth

Simon

 

 

[corneliuslundie]

Those springs on the carriage truck look like a passenger type, so probably 3 ft 7 in wheels as well. But is there room under the floor?

I have seen some discussion and photos of similar vehicles, but can't remember where. Possibly in the Brighton Circle electronic Modellers' Digest -  a good read anyway:

http://www.lbscr.org/Models/Digest/index.html

Good to see all the backnumbers are now available easily.

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

Those springs on the carriage truck look like a passenger type, so probably 3 ft 7 in wheels as well. But is there room under the floor?

I have seen some discussion and photos of similar vehicles, but can't remember where. Possibly in the Brighton Circle electronic Modellers' Digest -  a good read anyway:

http://www.lbscr.org/Models/Digest/index.html

Good to see all the backnumbers are now available easily.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  I will have to go through the Modellers' Digest.  I do have all the copies.  However, it looks like I set the hounds running for no reason.

 

 

It is amazing how the old plates did not bring out the colour differences.  

 

This link is to one that has been built and painted by someone who knows.

 

I admit those axleboxes look big which is why I queried it in the first place.  I should have sat and thought a bit more before I mentioned it.  I now need to find a horse box for two.

[corneliuslundie]

That's good.

How about this one:

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/97/4c67-lbscr-sr-stroudley-horsebox/

And thanks to our friend beginning with G I have discovered this page:

http://www.lbscr.org/Models/4mm.xhtml

Now I must tell my C&W Superintendent firmly that he does not need any more rolling stock.

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

That's good.

How about this one:

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/97/4c67-lbscr-sr-stroudley-horsebox/

And thanks to our friend beginning with G I have discovered this page:

http://www.lbscr.org/Models/4mm.xhtml

Now I must tell my C&W Superintendent firmly that he does not need any more rolling stock.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you, it certainly looks the part.  The trouble is that it is brass and learning to solder is after making coaches, and probably after making locos as well.  

 

I have found this.  According to the link it is diagram 19b so I will be able to investigate, although I may just email them.

 

The good thing about both of these is that there is no room for a groom so that is one more for the brake third.  It was seeming an extravagance to have it just for two maids.

Edited June 19, 2020 by ChrisN
spilling

[BlueLightning]

12 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

I have found this.  According to the link it is diagram 19b so I will be able to investigate, although I may just email them

 

That's by @Javier L of this parish, I can highly recommend his 3D prints, I have built one of his loco kits.

 

Gary

[corneliuslundie]

It is really sweet.

I echo your feelings about etched kits. I am struggling with one at the  moment, for a GWR bogie full brake. I soldered so far and since then have resorted to superglue. I tend to take a break when either I am waiting for it to set hard or I have too much on my fingers. That is, though, why the Sarn thread has been so quiet lately.

I also have an etched kit for a GWR Diagram S6 six-wheel third which has gone back in the "to do" box. I suspect that a grandson will eventually inherit it still not started.

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

33 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

 

That's by @Javier L of this parish, I can highly recommend his 3D prints, I have built one of his loco kits.

 

Gary

 

Gary,

Thank you, I have found his thread now.  The horsebox is of 1850s origin, apparently si I doubt if it would have lasted to 1895, but I am investigating.  It would have needed brakes added I assume and I would prefer if it did as it would go at the head of the train.

 

6 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

It is really sweet.

I echo your feelings about etched kits. I am struggling with one at the  moment, for a GWR bogie full brake. I soldered so far and since then have resorted to superglue. I tend to take a break when either I am waiting for it to set hard or I have too much on my fingers. That is, though, why the Sarn thread has been so quiet lately.

I also have an etched kit for a GWR Diagram S6 six-wheel third which has gone back in the "to do" box. I suspect that a grandson will eventually inherit it still not started.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

I either need to learn to solder, which I am sure is not beyond me I keep telling myself, or try and glue brass kits.  The ones I have do not have tabs but the ends but butt together so either I will need to solder them ormake some form of tab to glue them.  

[BlueLightning]

Chris,

 

I've been able to look through my book with horseboxes now. (LB&SCR Carriages Volume 2) The type that Javier has modelled were all gone by 1885.

 

It does look like the type offered by Roxey is your best bet, and while being brass my be off putting, it is flat sided with no tumblehome to form, and at least with soldering you can always unsolder again if you mess up.

 

Gary

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, BlueLightning said:

Chris,

 

I've been able to look through my book with horseboxes now. (LB&SCR Carriages Volume 2) The type that Javier has modelled were all gone by 1885.

 

It does look like the type offered by Roxey is your best bet, and while being brass my be off putting, it is flat sided with no tumblehome to form, and at least with soldering you can always unsolder again if you mess up.

 

Gary

 

Gary,

Thank you, that is most helpful and as I expected.   Sweet little horseboxes did not usually last that long and I am surprised that the Roxey one lasted as long as it did.

 

As I have said earlier, soldering is on the 'to do' list but I probably need to set myself up to do a few projects at once.  I have most of the stuff, I think.  I have this thought that it is closed and no one will see the soldered mess, but it is over thirty quid so not something I would want to make a hash of.

Edited June 19, 2020 by ChrisN

[BlueLightning]

14 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

but it is over thirty quid so not something I would want to make a hash of.

 

Totally makes sense, and I remember a time I thought the same about soldering, I spent a long time sticking bits of scrap etch together before I was comfortable with the idea of using it for modelling!

[Mikkel]

Chris, what an interesting and very funny post about the carriage wagon.  That and the coach form an attractive set.  I hope you are able to see through the masterplan by the LBSC and their Chairman Gary. Clearly they are out to colonise you!

 

Speaking of which, I have often looked at the Roxey horsebox and tried to justify it. 

 

By the way, I think the answer must be (b)? 

 

 

[ChrisN]

54 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Chris, what an interesting and very funny post about the carriage wagon.  That and the coach form an attractive set.  I hope you are able to see through the masterplan by the LBSC and their Chairman Gary. Clearly they are out to colonise you!

 

Speaking of which, I have often looked at the Roxey horsebox and tried to justify it. 

 

By the way, I think the answer must be (b)? 

 

 

 

Mikkel,

Thank you.  Hopefully there will be two coaches, a carriage truck and a horsebox eventually.  I was hoping for a quick fix, but it does not look like it unless I can find someone who wants to sell one.  That is not ideal, but otherwise I am not sure when it will get done.  I do like the horsebox.  I think the word is 'quaint'.

 

I will not say that you are wrong.  The thought of buying a whole packet and only using one was just a little annoying.

 

I have decided to photograph all the inhabitants of Traeth Mawr so I remember who they are.  I had a few minutes job with them tonight when I actually had an extended modelling period, and it lasted most of the time so my MSLR coach is still waiting.  Maybe tomorrow.

 

 

[BlueLightning]

14 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

I have decided to photograph all the inhabitants of Traeth Mawr so I remember who they are.

 

This is something I realised some time ago that I will need to do for Oak Hill, my list of names and descriptions can get confusing!

 

Also I realised I forgot to reply with the Sir's name, I think I was supposed to be working when I first read your post!! He is Sir Jon Melbourne III he is only a Baronet ("only" he says) so doesn't get to use the title Lord.

 

Gary

 

PS. Oh and I meant to mention, I have broke many of those buffers before, I think I shall try your method of repairing them next time!

[ChrisN]

3 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

 

This is something I realised some time ago that I will need to do for Oak Hill, my list of names and descriptions can get confusing!

 

Also I realised I forgot to reply with the Sir's name, I think I was supposed to be working when I first read your post!! He is Sir Jon Melbourne III he is only a Baronet ("only" he says) so doesn't get to use the title Lord.

 

Gary

 

PS. Oh and I meant to mention, I have broke many of those buffers before, I think I shall try your method of repairing them next time!

 

Gary,

Thank you.  I am glad my method will be of help.

 

I could not remember if you had told me and I had forgotten or if you had not.  Sir Jon it is then.  Any idea of the names of er,

His wife?

His Daughter?

His baby?

His Nanny

His wife's Lady's maid?

The extra female servant?

The groom?

 

No?  Never mind, it is not important.  

[BlueLightning]

Jon Melbourne III - Baronet - born 1857

Rayne Melbourne - Lady - born 1865

Nora Melbourne - Daughter 1 - born 1887

Adealia  Melbourne - Daughter 2 - born 1893

Arthur Melbourne - Son - born 1895

Catherine Hopkin - Nanny - born 1860

 

The rest don't have names yet, mainly because I don't have figures to represent them

[Mikkel]

Gentlemen, this lack of detail won't do. As a minimum, we expect full family trees for each.