Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[MikeOxon]

Have you consider wood?  here are a number of laser cut wooden kits available. A supplier such as Cornwall Model Boats can provide various sheet materials beading, etc..  I have used their materials for building broad gauge track, for example.

Mike.

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

Have you consider wood?  here are a number of laser cut wooden kits available. A supplier such as Cornwall Model Boats can provide various sheet materials beading, etc..  I have used their materials for building broad gauge track, for example.

Mike.

 

Mike,

Thank you.  I do have a sheet of beach ply somewhere, which is not very thick but I think is wider than the 100mm of the sheets from that company.  Certainly worth thinking about.

[kitpw]

4D Modelshop (https://modelshop.co.uk/) - much frequented by architectural modelmakers - has a wide range of sheet materials including ply and very thin MDF (they supplied some 1.5mm MDF to me just the other day).  I use quite a lot of ply in various thicknesses and also card and paper: my shellac bill is prodigious as particularly the paper needs toughening up if it is to survive my handling.

 

I do enjoy reading your posts about the devlopment of Traeth Mawr - I might even find out how to pronounce it one of these days (my son just moved to mid Wales and is getting to grips with his local place names) - but I sometimes (mostly, to borrow a well known title) forget to hit the' thumbs up' or 'craftsmanship/clever' buttons.  Must remember in future.

 

[ChrisN]

54 minutes ago, kitpw said:

4D Modelshop (https://modelshop.co.uk/) - much frequented by architectural modelmakers - has a wide range of sheet materials including ply and very thin MDF (they supplied some 1.5mm MDF to me just the other day).  I use quite a lot of ply in various thicknesses and also card and paper: my shellac bill is prodigious as particularly the paper needs toughening up if it is to survive my handling.

 

I do enjoy reading your posts about the devlopment of Traeth Mawr - I might even find out how to pronounce it one of these days (my son just moved to mid Wales and is getting to grips with his local place names) - but I sometimes (mostly, to borrow a well known title) forget to hit the' thumbs up' or 'craftsmanship/clever' buttons.  Must remember in future.

 

 

Kit,

Thank yo for your kind comments.

 

In one sense I am quite happy, well fairly happy, working in card and the building itself is fairly robust as it has a fair amount of shellac on it.  Still have not got up the courage to use contact adhesive to stick the surface layer to it though.  The problem is the corners of the roof, and it looks a bit thick.  I will bookmark 4D as it looks like a shop that needs a lot of perusing.

 

(I pronounce it Tryeth More, but I am sure most Welsh speakers would not be impressed.)

[kitpw]

52 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

Still have not got up the courage to use contact adhesive to stick the surface layer to it though.

I still use gum arabic  which is a distinctly old fashioned approach*.  (If you can't get on with it, it can always be used up in making marshmallows and [?] other culinary delights). The gum arabic I use as a laminating adhesive for card, paper and blotting paper (excellent stuff as it laps up shellac).  Cornellisen (https://www.cornelissen.com) and Jacksons (https://www.jacksonsart.com) stock it and a variety of other exotic resins, gums and varnishes.  I use white glue sometimes for shelac'd materials: neither arabic or pva seem to cause them to buckle and wobble. It might be worth a try on some scrap materials to see if either or both suit your methods and preferences.

 

*I was reminded about gum arabic several years ago when reading a 1950s (?) article on making coach sides in several laminated layers of Bristol board. I've tried plasticard but in my hands, it seems to warp, melt, delaminate or otherwise confound my efforts which is why I investigated card and suitable adhesives (with no volatile solvents).  The body of the little horsebox I posted about on Swan Hill recently is made from Bristol board, laminated with gum arabic.

 

 

 

[ChrisN]

12 hours ago, kitpw said:

I still use gum arabic  which is a distinctly old fashioned approach*.  (If you can't get on with it, it can always be used up in making marshmallows and [?] other culinary delights). The gum arabic I use as a laminating adhesive for card, paper and blotting paper (excellent stuff as it laps up shellac).  Cornellisen (https://www.cornelissen.com) and Jacksons (https://www.jacksonsart.com) stock it and a variety of other exotic resins, gums and varnishes.  I use white glue sometimes for shelac'd materials: neither arabic or pva seem to cause them to buckle and wobble. It might be worth a try on some scrap materials to see if either or both suit your methods and preferences.

 

*I was reminded about gum arabic several years ago when reading a 1950s (?) article on making coach sides in several laminated layers of Bristol board. I've tried plasticard but in my hands, it seems to warp, melt, delaminate or otherwise confound my efforts which is why I investigated card and suitable adhesives (with no volatile solvents).  The body of the little horsebox I posted about on Swan Hill recently is made from Bristol board, laminated with gum arabic.

 

 

 

 

Kit,

This is very interesting.  I started making plastic kits, and from there started to make interiors.  I realised that if I was making interiors it was not a huge step to make the outsides as well.  I then moved onto card insides with embossed plastic as a cover.  I have seen amazing models on RMWeb using card and paper brick sheets etc, but I am not sure if you get the surface texture.  What I had not realised was that the bond between plastic and card with PVA is only mechanical so it is quite easy to knock the plastic off, although I have started to score the plastic and that seems to help.  

 

I shall have to see how I progress things.  Despite the shellac the corners of roofs and the top of gables have tended to suffer.

 

I understand that with any laminations that the ought to be an odd number of laminations, as this gives an even number of glue layers to that the forces pulling the material in one direction are balanced by forces pulling in the opposite direction, but you probably know this already.  I however, place the naughty stuff under heavy glass for at least 3 days and it seems to behave itself.

[ChrisN]

No pictures today.  I decided yesterday that I ought to prime the slates on the roofs as I was not sure that the vinyl would take paint directly.  Well, to cut a long story short the cuts between individual slates began to disappear although the lines of slates are still visible.  On thinning the primer the slates are still individually visible but of course the colour is not whaat it could be.  I am now a little worried about putting the final layer of paint on, as I think that to get the colour I want I will lose detail.

 

ho, hum.  Any thoughts gratefully recieved.

[kitpw]

18 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

I am now a little worried about putting the final layer of paint on, as I think that to get the colour I want I will lose detail.

You could try these https://www.jacksonsart.com/faber-castell-pitt-graphite-crayon.  Available in the usual grades on the soft side of HB. Being a flat bar of graphite (no wood round it), you could try wiping it over the surface as it won't go into the cracks between slates but I'd try it on some scrap first! As an alternative,  I guess that a soft pencil might do the trick anyway particularly when rubbed in gently with a rolled paper smudger or a finger - again, I'd try it first on some scrap as graphite pencil might not take on whatever surface you've now got.

[MikeOxon]

5 hours ago, ChrisN said:

Well, to cut a long story short the cuts between individual slates began to disappear although the lines of slates are still visible.

Isn't it strange how, when you want lines to disappear they will not, yet you are experiencing the opposite. 

 

In my 3D prints I have tried all sorts of fine surface fillers etc but the layers are still visible.  I usually resort to self-adhesive vinyl.  You can buy ink-jet printable vinyl, which will absorb inks, so can be coloured as you require.

[lmsforever]

In the 1950,s   I used to go  to my aunties in Walthamstow near Wood Street station ,in the afternoon the United Dairies horse led milk floats would come back to the depot opposite her flat and go up a steep ramp at amazing speeds. There a lot of them and I found out the stables were on the top floor the dairy was the biggest in the area and lasted until the middle sixties then it was knocked down and flats were built . We have our milk delivered by a local dairy its good to to have glass bottles this is an interesting thread .

[Nick Gough]

I painted my vinyl slates with Humbrol enamel directly - no primer.

After one coat:

 

It still looks okay over 18 months later:

The individual slates are not as clearly defined as before painting, but still visible.

 

You may recall I made the roof from two sheets of 3mm MDF:

 

Over that I stuck a layer of 10 thou/.25mm plastikard, to complete the apex over the gap between the MDF sheets, and to extend the roof down to gutter level. This also helped with drawing on pencil guidelines for laying the strips of vinyl:

 

An added advantage was that the self-adhesive vinyl stuck to the plastikard much better than the MDF.

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Nick Gough
Additional text

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, Nick Gough said:

I painted my vinyl slates with Humbrol enamel directly - no primer.

After one coat:

 

It still looks okay over 18 months later:

The individual slates are not as clearly defined as before painting, but still visible.

 

You may recall I made the roof from two sheets of 3mm MDF:

 

Over that I stuck a layer of 10 thou/.25mm plastikard, to complete the apex over the gap between the MDF sheets, and to extend the roof down to gutter level. This also helped with drawing on pencil guidelines for laying the strips of vinyl:

 

An added advantage was that the self-adhesive vinyl stuck to the plastikard much better than the MDF.

 

 

 

 

Nick,

Thank you.  I think I am going to attack the primer with some thinners and then proceed with the top coat,

 

I had forgotten that you had covered the roof with a layer of plasticard as you had the same issue as I did, the apex was a gully not a point.

 

The next building I make, Mr Price's house I think that I will use card, and shellac it before I add the plastic embossed sheet.  If I ma not happy with that then I shall move onto other support materials.

Edited August 5, 2023 by ChrisN

[ChrisN]

16 hours ago, lmsforever said:

In the 1950,s   I used to go  to my aunties in Walthamstow near Wood Street station ,in the afternoon the United Dairies horse led milk floats would come back to the depot opposite her flat and go up a steep ramp at amazing speeds. There a lot of them and I found out the stables were on the top floor the dairy was the biggest in the area and lasted until the middle sixties then it was knocked down and flats were built . We have our milk delivered by a local dairy its good to to have glass bottles this is an interesting thread .

 

Thanks, I am glad you are enjoying the thread.

 

I do know Walthamstow vaguely, although I have not been there for a while.  I must have seen the flats, but not the dairy, very interesting.

[MikeOxon]

I should add that ink-jet printable vinyl takes acrylic paints very well - that's now my preferred medium.

 

Mike

[ChrisN]

Things have been a little slow lately, and I still have some pictures on my camera to download, of the interesting bit, well I think it is interesting.  (I have also done some boring bits to the platform.)

 

The Cambrian Third Class Saloon.  (I did get out the ladies of the Dolgelley Temperance Society to paint them, but then I saw the time, and so put them back.)

 

Here are the constituent parts.

 

 

I showed this picture last time, which is the top four laminations, with holes in the bottom two drilled through to allow any fumes to escape.

 

 

The other side, and the ends. (Ah, no pictures of the parts of the end.  Two plain pieces, and a moulding piece.)  I have added some mouldings, er, by eye, although I did measure the distance between the top and bottom ones to make sure the middle one was equidistant between the two.)  I think that perhaps they should have been on a panel layer but I did not think of it when I was drawing the file, and there is, as far as I have found, no pictures of this coach.  Notice that the end panelling does not quite fit, not sure why.

 

 

Finally, I put some 15 thou strips on the laminations in the first picture, (sorry, for got to take a photo), and then put the final layer on.  This again has holes to allow fumes to escape.  The idea of the strips is that I can slide 10 thou glazing into it when it is finished and painted.  That is the theory, and it did work on one a while ago which I used as practise.

 

It now needs the end bevelling to make a fit, and a floor making.  I know that Cambrian chassis do not look like GWR ones, but Ratio chassis are GWR and I am not going to draw and cut a Cambrian one.  The floor will be made to take the Ratio solebars etc.  (I need to look at my pictures of how I did this before on the Parliamentary coaches.)  This is not a five minute job like laminating, and will be longer than the mouldings, so I need to convince myself I have enough time to do that and something on the station building or platform.

 

In other but similar news, while my wife is sitting on her laptop working in the evenings, so as to not be completely antisocial, I sit with her on my laptop, editing Silhouette files, what I made earlier, and messed up.  I have now finished the E25.  It is ready to cut.  I had hoped to do that today, but all my time disappeared.  This will be more complicated to build, and I keep telling myself that I ought to be getting on with scenery.  Still the chances of me going completely barmy and making the whole of the 10:02 from Paddington, are fairly remote.  Honest........

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[MikeOxon]

15 hours ago, ChrisN said:

I did get out the ladies of the Dolgelley Temperance Society to paint them, but then I saw the time, and so put them back

I'm sure they would have painted your carriages very nicely!

 

Mike

[corneliuslundie]

If that is Cambrian Saloon No. 10, then there is a photo of the grounded body in my recent Cambrian Drawings book (plug) courtesy of Francis Taylor.

Jonathan

[Donw]

On 02/08/2023 at 21:06, ChrisN said:

 

Kit,

Thank yo for your kind comments.

 

In one sense I am quite happy, well fairly happy, working in card and the building itself is fairly robust as it has a fair amount of shellac on it.  Still have not got up the courage to use contact adhesive to stick the surface layer to it though.  The problem is the corners of the roof, and it looks a bit thick.  I will bookmark 4D as it looks like a shop that needs a lot of perusing.

 

(I pronounce it Tryeth More, but I am sure most Welsh speakers would not be impressed.)

 

You will find no matter how you pronounce it the  Welsh will say its not right. However on training courses at Cardiff it was plain they differ in their pronunciation. The guys from Llandygai (North Wales) who used it everyday at work sounded quite different from the ones from Cardiff and those from the south west were different again.

 

Don

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

If that is Cambrian Saloon No. 10, then there is a photo of the grounded body in my recent Cambrian Drawings book (plug) courtesy of Francis Taylor.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  It is on my shopping list, but, er, it is now closer to next Christmas than last so it will go on my Christmas list.  That also means that the WRRC, (Welsh Railway Research Circle), will not lose the £6.00 discount that members get.

 

I have waited a while for this book, so it will be a nice Christmas present.

 

Still, it is too late now. hopefully it will be finished, (ho, ho), by the time I see the picture.

 

 

[ChrisN]

In the cover picture of the book, the train which is a wonderful collection of six wheelers, with a possible through carriage at the back, behind an Albion 2-4-0, (beautiful), is on the wrong line.  Now Barmouth was actually signalled so that trains could enter either line, so 

1) It was on the down platform for some reason,

 

2)  It arrived on the down platform, the engine ran round and now is returning.  (Not many if any at this time terminated at Barmouth, except the Dolgelley train, and I thought that train was only four carriages.  Of course one of the six wheelers might be a through carriage.)

 

3) It is shunting the carriages to the up platform.

 

4) It is posed there for the picture.

 

All the carriage sidings are down the other end.

 

The front carriage appears to have gas tops which I think are too late for 1892.

 

I have a number of diagrams already from HMRC HMRS, at I think, £10.00 a time, so £26.00 will save one of my sons quite a bit of money this Christmas.  I have Volumes 1-3 and they are excellent.

[corneliuslundie]

We are aware that the photo is post 1892 but all the stock originates before that date and it is a really nice pic. It was really hard to find decent pre-1892 images of trains.

Re it being on the wrong line, I think you are right. It does look as if it is heading south, so I wonder why from the Down platform.

One for the "!Cambrian mob" top chew over.

Jonathan

 

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

We are aware that the photo is post 1892 but all the stock originates before that date and it is a really nice pic. It was really hard to find decent pre-1892 images of trains.

Re it being on the wrong line, I think you are right. It does look as if it is heading south, so I wonder why from the Down platform.

One for the "!Cambrian mob" top chew over.

Jonathan

 

 

I agree about it being a lovely picture, and good pictures of trains pre 1892 are very rare.  There are pictures, but generally poor quality.  Also, I am not sure I have seen this one before.

 

All the diagrams I have up until 1894 either show oil tops or nothing on the drawings, so the front carriage is interesting.  Perhaps an LNWR six wheeler, which would mean a Machynlleth train.

[Compound2632]

8 hours ago, ChrisN said:

All the diagrams I have up until 1894 either show oil tops or nothing on the drawings, so the front carriage is interesting.  Perhaps an LNWR six wheeler, which would mean a Machynlleth train.

 

The first four carriages in that train are evidently Cambrian, since they have separate waist and eves panels (not LNW) and the waist panels are a light, not dark, colour (not GW). Same, I think, for the bogie carriage.

[ChrisN]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The first four carriages in that train are evidently Cambrian, since they have separate waist and eves panels (not LNW) and the waist panels are a light, not dark, colour (not GW). Same, I think, for the bogie carriage.

 

Stephen,

Thank you.  Having never actually got round to painting my GWR coaches, the facts of the panelling on each type of coach remained safely locked in different filing cabinets in my brain without a cross reference.  I have now filled out the relevant ticket, and filed it appropriately.  (LNWR is a completely foreign land really, so did not have its own filing cabinet.)

 

That information now makes me realise that, in this famous photo the leading coach is a GWR through coach, and this terrible postcard, shows a Cambrian coach, although I have never seen a Cambrian coach with so many ventilators.

 

Note the colour of the bronze green coach, which is probably nearer than my bronze green, and the green sheen on the engine which is from the invisible green paint.

Edited August 28, 2023 by ChrisN
Corrected link

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

That information now makes me realise that, in this famous photo the leading coach is a GWR through coach, and this terrible postcard, shows a Cambrian coach, although I have never seen a Cambrian coach with so many ventilators.

 

Both links go to the photo of the little engine with the long Welsh name. Yes, GW coach there, one with the earlier style of very deep eves panels. looking through Richard Spratt's website, http://www.gwrcoaches.org.uk/index.html, it might be a brake third, diagram T28, but more probably a passenger brake van, of which there are several eligible diagrams.