Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[ChrisN]

44 minutes ago, Nick Gough said:

An earlier article on Wellington (Salop) has some more detail for trains north of Wolverhampton in the 1890s:

 

"A Mr CJ Alcock recalled a journey he made in 1895 to Manchester from Paddington, his coach being slipped at Wellington. An 8.15 am departure brought him to Wellington via Oxford and Wolverhampton(where the train engine, 'Cobham' single No. 162, was replaced by Armstrong 'Sir Daniel' single No. 378)..."

 

Some recorded examples:

"MAIN LINE

Date                  Eng        Class                           Train                          To

30 Jun 94           803        Std Goods (0-6-0)      7/30 Barmouth         Birmingham (Excursion)

4 Aug 94            212        W Mid   (2-4-0)           1/30 Paddington       Birkenhead

17 Dec 94          155        Chancellor (2-4-0)     12/5 Birkenhead       Paddington

6 Jun 95              378        Sir Daniel  (2-2-2)      4/45 Paddington      Birkenhead

10 Jul 95             3229      3226  (2-4-0)              6.15 Birkenhead       Paddington

23 Apr 96           439        Bicycle  (2-4-0)           1/40 Birkenhead      Paddington

14 Dec 96           578        Sir Daniel  (2-2-2)      4/45 Paddington      Birkenhead

26 Apr 98           153        Chancellor  (2-4-0)    4/15 Birkenhead      Paddington"

 

Nick,

An interesting selection.

 

I would be surprised if the Cambrian let the Stnd Goods past Dolgelley, as although the GWR had running powers, the Cambrian were very keen that they were not exercised, and so made sure it had locos to do the job.

 

the 1/30 from Paddington, and the 1/40 from Birkenhead were the expresses that had the corridor coaches, so it is interesting that they were pulled by 2-4-0s.

 

Both the 4/45 from Paddington and the 4/15 from Birkenhead are labelled in Bradshaws 'Birmingham and North Express', so 2-4-0s were taking over as time went on.

[Nick Gough]

10 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

 

Nick,

An interesting selection.

 

I would be surprised if the Cambrian let the Stnd Goods past Dolgelley, as although the GWR had running powers, the Cambrian were very keen that they were not exercised, and so made sure it had locos to do the job.

 

the 1/30 from Paddington, and the 1/40 from Birkenhead were the expresses that had the corridor coaches, so it is interesting that they were pulled by 2-4-0s.

 

Both the 4/45 from Paddington and the 4/15 from Birkenhead are labelled in Bradshaws 'Birmingham and North Express', so 2-4-0s were taking over as time went on.

 

Of course ten years later, most of the expresses through Wellington were hauled by 4-4-0s 'Dukes' and 'Bulldogs'.

[Compound2632]

21 hours ago, Northroader said:

 

I'm still staring at this photo, having opened it in a new tab to get the full size. i'm none the wiser about the third carriage bu I notice the engine's front coupling is a three-link apparently attached to a shackle, and looped across to some sort of hook under the buffer beam. Now I'll be looking at the front of other Great Western engines...

[Donw]

On 12/10/2023 at 08:59, corneliuslundie said:

They look pretty good to me. It is difficult because in real life we normally only see chimneys by looking up and they are rather insignificant parts of the view whereas on a model we look down on them so they are far more prominent. And I don't know about lead flashing either. A bit lighter than the slates on my buildings.

To change the subject, but strictly within the scope of the title of the thread, I accidentally came across a photo of this yesterday:

 

This is actually a screen grab from a U-Tube video with a TfW class 158 passing but it looks to me like a typical Cambrian crossing keeper's cottage. You don't need to model the barriers of course! 

Looking at Cooke, it was about 11 chains east of the Croesor line crossing.

Jonathan

 

it also shows a lead roll on the cottage roof hip.

 

Don

[Donw]

I would be surprised if the GWR allowed a 2-2-2 over the mountains to Dolgellau and even more surprised if the Cambrian failed to provide an engine to take it further. Of course modellers rule 1 an be invoked. I think a renewed bicycle 439  class would be more likely from Wolverhampton.

 

Don

[brumtb]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I'm still staring at this photo, having opened it in a new tab to get the full size. i'm none the wiser about the third carriage bu I notice the engine's front coupling is a three-link apparently attached to a shackle, and looped across to some sort of hook under the buffer beam. Now I'll be looking at the front of other Great Western engines...

Hooking up the front coupling, particularly on express locos was a GWR feature over many years

 

 

Tony

[ChrisN]

3 hours ago, Donw said:

I would be surprised if the GWR allowed a 2-2-2 over the mountains to Dolgellau and even more surprised if the Cambrian failed to provide an engine to take it further. Of course modellers rule 1 an be invoked. I think a renewed bicycle 439  class would be more likely from Wolverhampton.

 

Don

 

Don,

I think you are right.  I am not intending to run a 2-2-2 into Traeth Mawr, I am just interested in what might have pulled the train that contained the through coach from Paddington.  Part of my background understanding.

[MikeOxon]

On 07/11/2023 at 11:25, Compound2632 said:

What an interesting train - a pair of E41 56 ft lavatory tricomposite brakes, I believe, coupled brake end to brake end so that the passengers in the two end first class compartments aren't ogling each other through the end widows, and a non-Great Western bogie clerestory vehicle. Great Central? Did the Cambrian have any bogie clerestory carriages? Not, I think, a LNWR 45 ft family saloon (D63, also WCJS D13) - too many doors and windows.

 

On looking again at the Youtube video of Adelina Patti's train at Maidenhead, I noticed a carriage with a cream waistband that appears to be marked as 'Dining Car'.  I'm not sure why the carriage at Goring troughs is said not to be GWR but could it have been a special purpose vehicle such as this one?  Perhaps another private train.

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

On looking again at the Youtube video of Adelina Patti's train at Maidenhead, I noticed a carriage with a cream waistband that appears to be marked as 'Dining Car'.  I'm not sure why the carriage at Goring troughs is said not to be GWR but could it have been a special purpose vehicle such as this one?  Perhaps another private train.

 

Yes, I'd thought about that, recalling the discussion of this film in my D299 topic. From what I recall, the Dean clerestory dining carriages were initially turned out with cream waist panels. But the pattern of windows looks to me wrong for a dining carriage - the leading end seems to have alternating short and long windows, perhaps the corridor side of a corridor carriage. I'm not sure what's going on in the middle - is that a ducket or a lavatory window between two plain panels? But my principal reason for doubting that it is a Dean clerestory is that the line of the bottom waist molding and of the bottom of the windows is noticeably lower than on the leading two carriages. I did, though, wonder if it might be the Directors' Saloon No. 249 of 1894, but that is also a 56 ft vehicle and this looks shorter.

 

I think the conclusion re. the Maidenhead train is that it's a regular up South Wales express, with a couple of non-corridor swingers (8 ft rather than 8 ft 6 in wide) with Mme. Patti's saloon on the rear, rather than a special.

 

 

and preceding and subsequent posts.

[MikeOxon]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I did, though, wonder if it might be the Directors' Saloon No. 249 of 1894, but that is also a 56 ft vehicle and this looks shorter.

If this was a test train for newly laid water troughs then a Directors' saloon does seem quite likely.

[ChrisN]

Thinking about it, Goring does not seem very far from Paddington, ?45 minutes, to need water troughs.  Did locos fill up at Reading, so if they did not stop they did so at these troughs?

[Donw]

Yes Goring does seem an odd place for troughs. In the 50s most named expresses did not stop at Reading although there were or had been some slip coaches in the up direction. Besides I wouldn't think any loco would need more water after such a short distance.  Perhaps the idea was to just top up to extend the locos range.

 

Don

[Compound2632]

19 minutes ago, Donw said:

Yes Goring does seem an odd place for troughs. In the 50s most named expresses did not stop at Reading although there were or had been some slip coaches in the up direction. Besides I wouldn't think any loco would need more water after such a short distance.  Perhaps the idea was to just top up to extend the locos range.

 

I've not looked at timetables but I suspect that the same was true in the 1890s. Reading General was rebuilt to substantially the form it had prior to the rebuild this century in the late 1890s; before that it preserved the very awkward arrangement of separate up and down stations each with a single platform, inherited from broad gauge days. Moreover, it had not at that time become the major interchange it is now; the "crosscountry" routes not really being much developed. When the through services between the LSWR and GCR were established, they ran via Reading West rather than having a reversal at General. 

 

The other point about water troughs is that they need a good long stretch of level line. The Great Western main line climbs steadily if gently from Paddington to Swindon; perhaps the stretch near Goring was the most suitable level section between London and Swindon? Also, being east of Didcot, these troughs could be used by Birmingham trains - the Bicester cut-off being some years in the future.

[corneliuslundie]

I am pretty sure the statements about expresses not stopping at Reading would be correct. Ad yes, topping up to give greater range. Anyway you don't want the troughs too close to the point where the water in the tender is going to run out in case of delays etc.

There were also troughs on the GWR at Denham, 

Keynsham and Charlbury, none of them a great distance from London.

Jonathan

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

I am pretty sure the statements about expresses not stopping at Reading would be correct. Ad yes, topping up to give greater range.

 

The LNWR, which had had troughs at very regular intervals on the main line from the 1860s, with the first out of Euston at Bushey, a good deal nearer than Goring, used them as a way of saving the weight of the locomotive tender. Where, by the end of the century, other companies were building tenders of 3,000 gal - 3,500 gal capacity, and even 4,000 gal bogie monsters, the largest on the LNWR was 2,000 gal, with 1,500 gal and 1,800 gal being the standard sizes. Wooden underframes, too. 

[MikeOxon]

21 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I did, though, wonder if it might be the Directors' Saloon No. 249 of 1894, but that is also a 56 ft vehicle and this looks shorter.

I tried using the perspective adjustment in 'Photoshop' to show the relative lengths of the carriages in the Goring train. 

 

It was an extreme adjustment but the indication is that the end coach was no shorter and possibly longer than the others.  Perhaps my distorted view may help someone with more expert knowledge to make a guess at the type?

 

 

[ChrisN]

You would think I have not done any modelling recently.  This is not quite true but I have not had time to do much.  I have been struggling with the flashing on the chimneys.  I started by using thick paper, as advised by others.  I thought it would be best to paint the paper first, and then cut the shape of the flashing as it was being put on the chimney.  That did not work, as the paper was too damp.  I then cut the paper before I stuck it on.  This did not work as again it was too soft to hold its shape, and even though I had painted it, the edges became white.  I then decided to try thin card, so I took a long 2mm strip and cut notches in it, then took it and painted it with shellac.  I left it on the paper I used as a protection for the board underneath and did a couple of other things.  I went back a couple of days later and it was not there!  Either, 1) the roving gateway to another universe which inhabits my house, which removes things and then a few days/weeks later puts them back in the same place or another random place around the house, had struck again, or 2), it had stuck to my fleece, and fell off somewhere in the house.  I think it is (1), but either way I doubt if it will turn up at least until I have made another one and painted it, with shellac and grey paint.

 

So, I was encourage how well the miniature papers turned out and decided to try and produce a name and notice board for the Tin Tabernacle.  These were duly made out in word, and then put into Silhouette Studio the reduce to the correct size.  I thenstuck them on using Pritt Stick.  (A hard stick of glue for paper.)

 

 

If you cannot read the notice you could well be late for the meetings, but even if you can you are likely to be the best part of 130 years to late anyway..  The name appears to be not there, I think I got too much glue on its surface.  Next time I print something else I might relace it.  (I have since finished painting the bits I have missed earlier.)

 

You may remember that I was looking for something cheap and clever to use as downpipes.  In the end I bought some Ratio gutters for the station building, and guess what, there is an excess of downpipes.  Firstly I had to warm them in water and bend them so that they would through the water away from the building.  (Nothing fancy like proper drains.)

 

 

They needed a bit more work after this, and yes, I did finish the painting.

 

 

One down pipe in pipe in position.  I did one the other side as well.

 

I am not sure if I will have time, (or inspiration), for a Christmas post, so if not, have a Happy Christmas.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[brumtb]

27 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

You would think I have not done any modelling recently.  This is not quite true but I have not had time to do much.  I have been struggling with the flashing on the chimneys.  I started by using thick paper, as advised by others.  I thought it would be best to paint the paper first, and then cut the shape of the flashing as it was being put on the chimney.  That did not work, as the paper was too damp.  I then cut the paper before I stuck it on.  This did not work as again it was too soft to hold its shape, and even though I had painted it, the edges became white.  I then decided to try thin card, so I took a long 2mm strip and cut notches in it, then took it and painted it with shellac.  I left it on the paper I used as a protection for the board underneath and did a couple of other things.  I went back a couple of days later and it was not there!  Either, 1) the roving gateway to another universe which inhabits my house, which removes things and then a few days/weeks later puts them back in the same place or another random place around the house, had struck again, or 2), it had stuck to my fleece, and fell off somewhere in the house.  I think it is (1), but either way I doubt if it will turn up at least until I have made another one and painted it, with shellac and grey paint.

 

So, I was encourage how well the miniature papers turned out and decided to try and produce a name and notice board for the Tin Tabernacle.  These were duly made out in word, and then put into Silhouette Studio the reduce to the correct size.  I thenstuck them on using Pritt Stick.  (A hard stick of glue for paper.)

 

 

If you cannot read the notice you could well be late for the meetings, but even if you can you are likely to be the best part of 130 years to late anyway..  The name appears to be not there, I think I got too much glue on its surface.  Next time I print something else I might relace it.  (I have since finished painting the bits I have missed earlier.)

 

You may remember that I was looking for something cheap and clever to use as downpipes.  In the end I bought some Ratio gutters for the station building, and guess what, there is an excess of downpipes.  Firstly I had to warm them in water and bend them so that they would through the water away from the building.  (Nothing fancy like proper drains.)

 

 

They needed a bit more work after this, and yes, I did finish the painting.

 

 

One down pipe in pipe in position.  I did one the other side as well.

 

I am not sure if I will have time, (or inspiration), for a Christmas post, so if not, have a Happy Christmas.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

Have a happy and enjoyable Christmas Chris, come back when you're able.

Tony

[ChrisN]

Hello. Owen Price here.

 

 

 

 

It has to be me, I am in charge while my dad is still locked in a display cabinet, and the 'Contractor' goes 'walk abouts'.  As you can see the Dolgelley train has arrived bringing Sir John to see the 'Young Englishman' for Christmas.  He cannot get hold of a horsebox so he has not brought his carriage this time.  (Any resemblance to his carriage on the truck behind is purely co-incidence, honest.)  He will have to use the 'Toy Train' (that is what we call the narrow gauge railway, and come to think of it so do they in their advertising), to get to Ty Mawr.  Better than trying to get up the valley in a carriage, I think anyway.  (I think his name is Sir John, he is some toff from England, whatever he is called.)

 

 

You will have to excuse the mess, the 'Contractor' leaves things around to make it look as though he is working.  I am not convinced though, we still have a leaking roof, it is coming in round the chimneys.

 

 

They are beginning to gather at Shiloh, the Tin Tabernacle, for the Carol Service.  I think they are waiting for them to finish praying.  They will wait a long time, there is always someone in there praying, they might as well just go in.

 

 

Well, nearly at the end of another year where not much has happened.  The Contractor wishes me to thank everybody who reads his news sheets he prints, and the help and responses, he says he is very grateful and it encourages him.  Me, I wish you would all tell him to buck his ideas up and get a move on.

 

So from me, and him, Happy Christmas and have a good New Year.

Edited December 23, 2023 by ChrisN

[MikeOxon]

If Sir John is from Wilcote, you'd better warn the good people of Traeth Mawr. If his daughter, Blanche, is with him, she is very liable to paint the town red 🙂

 

It looks rather as if the flighty young Blanche has just got the idea of making a snowball but Sir John has sternly admonished her to "desist now, young lady - most unseemly".

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, MikeOxon said:

If Sir John is from Wilcote, you'd better warn the good people of Traeth Mawr. If his daughter, Blanche, is with him, she is very liable to paint the town red 🙂

 

It looks rather as if the flighty young Blanche has just got the idea of making a snowball but Sir John has sternly admonished her to "desist now, young lady - most unseemly".

 

Mike,

No, this is a different Sir Jon.  He comes from Groombridge.  If Blanche did try and paint the town red, well at least some painting would get done, but more likely, Sgt Roberts would intervene first, then your Sir Jon would have to bail her out of the lock up.

[Mikkel]

Mr Price, kindly pass my appreciation to the contractor. We are indebted to him for maintaining this inspiring chronicle.

 

As for yourself I am worried and a little puzzled that your father remains locked in the cabinet. It is almost as if you do not seem to want him back out!

 

[Northroader]

Totally enamelled with the train standing at the platform, very best wishes to yourself and Stationmaster Price.

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Northroader said:

Totally enamelled 

 

? Autocorrect at work!

[Northroader]

No, I’m just totally enamelled, just to put a gloss on it.