RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted February 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2014 Hi Rob 21C9 is looking good, I would just point out that the sweep at the front of the cab started from the bottom edge of the side sheeting rather than as you have shown. Also the inspection cover on the cylinder was a Light Pacific feature not a Merchant Navy one, but I appreciate these are still works in progress as you corrected this on the earlier image. Looking good Rob, If you have a copy of 'The Book of the Merchant Navy Pacifics' handy, pages 128 & 135 (21C8 & 21C9) show exactly what Graham means. You also need to lose a lot of rivets on the sheeting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 That latest incarnation of a MN is very impressive. Go on, I'm sold on these now! Because we moved from Cheshire to Lancashire in 1947, I didn't start school until I was five and a bit, but I remember well that first morning sat in a room on the floor with a book of locomotives I had found in a drawer. Mostly side views in colour like those found on cigarette cards, the Bullied Pacific stood out in bright green with three yellow stripes but no chimney, dome or valve-gear...Weard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham_Muz Posted February 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2014 Looking good Rob, If you have a copy of 'The Book of the Merchant Navy Pacifics' handy, pages 128 & 135 (21C8 & 21C9) show exactly what Graham means. You also need to lose a lot of rivets on the sheeting This shot of my 21C6 in action on Fisherton Sarum might also help, albeit in malachite green, I have also left the Z class in the shot as this shows the kind of effect that the SR Black locos looked like. Another comment is that the Merchant Navy's were slightly wider than the Light Pacifics, this line shot, with two LPs flanking two MNs hopefully shows what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted February 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2014 This shot of my 21C6 in action on Fisherton Sarum might also help, albeit in malachite green, I have also left the Z clkass in the shot as this shows the kind of effect that the SR Black locos looked like. 21C6 extract.jpg Another comment is that the Merchant Navy's were slightly wider than the Light Pacifics, this line shot, with two LPs flanking two MNs hopefully shows what I mean. nevard_130213_FishertnSraum_DSC_4061_1000.jpg I just hope Rob doesn't notice what's lurking in the engine-shed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Thankyou all, how remiss of me, forgetting the cylinder inspection cover is not on MNs... (got it right in the first pics), and of course hardly any rivets on the 21C1-10 engines because they were that 'special' cladding, but here is a mark 2 version , (and I didn't see that Leader in the shed, it was just a bad dream...) Actually the pic I have done below it does rather make the 'air-smoothed' look even more striking. Thanks for the reminders especially about the rivets Ian, I guess that makes us rivet counters literally... I do have the Irwell Book of the Merchant Navy,and plan a pic reminiscent of the one on p24 of 21C8, which together with the one of 21C1 on p25 were my basic guide for this pic below... who sad life at Surbiton was boring? Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted February 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 14, 2014 Thankyou all, how remiss of me, forgetting the cylinder inspection cover is not on MNs... (got it right in the first pics), and of course hardly any rivets on the 21C1-10 engines because they were that 'special' cladding, but here is a mark 2 version , (and I didn't see that Leader in the shed, it was just a bad dream...) Actually the pic I have done below it does rather make the 'air-smoothed' look even more striking. Thanks for the reminders especially about the rivets Ian, I guess that makes us rivet counters literally... I do have the Irwell Book of the Merchant Navy,and plan a pic reminiscent of the one on p24 of 21C8, which together with the one of 21C1 on p25 were my basic guide for this pic below... who sad life at Surbiton was boring? Cheers, MN_21C9_Bulleid_3ab_r1200.jpg Not Ian lol Ah the joys of Surbiton, best view point is the multi-storey above Sainsburys... watching the Hoover's going passed at speed... god that was a long time ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 oops yes toboldlygo, my apologies, mixed up with Mr Ian Hargrave, from whom I receive much encouragement. I cannot say exactly where this might be but it is what might be called 'redolent' of the area.. will no doubt find errors of all kinds in this tomorrow! In any event this is the kind of passing train which would have been very attractive to me if I had been a young lad in 1946... it certainly was, 10-15 years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted February 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2014 I cannot say exactly where this might be but it is what might be called 'redolent' of the area.. will no doubt find errors of all kinds in this tomorrow! Looks very familiar indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 15, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2014 Mm...wartime black and malachite ? Seductive package indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Belgian Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Far be it for me to criticise (sorry!), rather merely to point out that the fairing between the bottom of the cylinders to the edge of the bufferbeam on the first 10 MNs was in a continuous curve rather than the short curve which the later MNs and the Light Pacifics had. When looked at front head-on to around ¾-on there was almost a continuous curve down the edge of the deflectors to the bufferbeam as well. I put this down to the fact (I think!) that the Millholme models of MNs also had this wrong - as (dare I say this?) can be seen on Graham's otherwise-admirable models. You had it closer to correct Robbie in your earlier picture of 21c1. I would also point out that most of the rivets on the fairings are virtually flush, especially in the as-built Wartime state (i.e., when they were black) and thus almost invisible in most photographs. The line of rivets along the top are emphasised in Malachite photos as the lower yellow line seems to have rubbed off the rivet heads pretty quickly! Jeremy English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paftrain Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 My Millholme model of 35004 has the correct curved front end. ( please forgive photo quality - it was taken on my phone inside my display cabinet!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 Far be it for me to criticise (sorry!), rather merely to point out that the fairing between the bottom of the cylinders to the edge of the bufferbeam on the first 10 MNs was in a continuous curve rather than the short curve which the later MNs and the Light Pacifics had. When looked at front head-on to around ¾-on there was almost a continuous curve down the edge of the deflectors to the bufferbeam as well. .. Jeremy English Indeed you are right, that there was a shallow curve from front to rear, from buffer to cylinders, and up to just above the lower edge of the deflectors, which I depicted wrongly as being mostly at the buffer-end , but I will get it right eventually! As ever thanks for pointing things out, as I work quite fast and need the 'eyes' of other people to see things in a more objective way at times. I did do a second version yesterday anyway, with a variation in smoke pattern, so I'll fiddle with the light on the front cowling and load that when it's ready. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 voila, below, though I think I prefer the original smoke pattern, below that again. Painting smoke is truly very tricky, and often the photos from which one might work don't look at all well when 'brushed on'.. I changed the proportions of the front very slightly too, on both pics. Next will possibly be an early BR Brunswick Green version of the delightful early-series MNs... but before all the cowling was lost. Also I have a Hornby 01 with heavy weathering to photograph, but the weather here is lovely! Sunny and 18C ... just like in the photos below <g> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 My Millholme model of 35004 has the correct curved front end. ( please forgive photo quality - it was taken on my phone inside my display cabinet!) Can we see more of your Millholme model please? Looks like an express passenger blue example. I'm a sucker for blue locomotives, particularly in that livery…! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paftrain Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Can we see more of your Millholme model please? Looks like an express passenger blue example. I'm a sucker for blue locomotives, particularly in that livery…! Ok - it's time she came out of the cabinet and had a good run! I'll get her on the layout and take a couple of shots in the next few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 21C10 'Blue Star' in 1947 SR colours. Original cab, standard deflectors. Last of the first ten, this one built 1942, in wartime black, received Malachite Green in 5/47. Salisbury engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paftrain Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Ok - it's time she came out of the cabinet and had a good run! I'll get her on the layout and take a couple of shots in the next few days. As requested, herewith a shot of Cunard White Star on my layout. Aren't photos cruel - I can see things wrong now that I've never noticed before! Anyway, she still runs beautifully, fitted with a porters cap motor (that dates it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paftrain Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 As requested, herewith a shot of Cunard White Star on my layout. Aren't photos cruel - I can see things wrong now that I've never noticed before! Anyway, she still runs beautifully, fitted with a porters cap motor (that dates it). Damn auto spell corrections! Should be "Portescap". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 I do rather like the blue finish on 35004. Here however is my version of 1947 SR work-stained Salisbury engine 21C10... on shed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Love that livery. Really suited the big Bulleids, the Peppercorn A1s and the Gresley A3s. Not sold on the livery on A4s though SNG has always been my favourite of the preserved A4s for carrying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 Yes, they did look rather good in Malachite. I just put this together, on the ex-LSWR main line, 21C10 being a Salisbury engine. It's a bit strange with a picture of a fast-moving train in colour in 1947, when the only colour film available was very low speed 8asa Kodachrome1 or similar, and they could not possibly have been sharp... but suspension of disbelief helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted February 20, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2014 I would also point out that most of the rivets on the fairings are virtually flush, especially in the as-built Wartime state (i.e., when they were black) and thus almost invisible in most photographs. The line of rivets along the top are emphasised in Malachite photos as the lower yellow line seems to have rubbed off the rivet heads pretty quickly! Jeremy English if anyone accuses you of being a rivet counter just refer them back to this post for clarification!! :-) edit: smileys dont work on my ipad but it is meant tongue in cheek! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 20, 2014 Author Share Posted February 20, 2014 Yes, the visibility of rivets is variable, and the bodywork of all the air-smoothed engines varied a lot, especially early-on with experiments to deal with smoke-drift. The patch repairs were many and various, the paint-schemes varied from engine to engine too... I now want to do a late-50s version, and as ever cannot decide which engine. 'New Zealand Line' perhaps, first of the last batch, and NZ is my home. The appearance of the air-smoothed engines does seem to be a bit of love-hate for some, but for me it is all about the dark days of WW2 when these engines were built, and merchant seamen took such huge losses. Then the sense of modern design and the curious mix of modernity and old practice which was British Railways. And then when I was young Kitmaster made 'Biggin Hill', and that was it, a permanent liking for the Bulleid Pacific style. Reading these days about how sometimes these engines performed so well increases the pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Actually Rob, I was referring to the express blue livery (though must say I'm impressed with the editing you've done on your artwork). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Errrr....A three in one question, Rob......Why does the lining appear White ? or light Grey ?..... Shouldn't it be Yellow ?.... or Is it my monitor ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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