Southern Electric layout design advice

[Alex TM]

Hi folks,

 

Following the demise of my layout build (Bere Lane Sidings) I have decided to move on to the design of a new layout.  The challenge is that I don't no where to begin as I am moving out of the areas where I know enough (even if that is not a lot at times) into something new.  I have been fascinated by 3rd rail electrics ever since travelling on them out of Reading in my mid-teens; this was rekindled when I started to travel a lot around Merseyside on classes 507/508.  With the end of my last layout attempt I thought it was a good time to have a crack at something that involved third rail, but don't know where to begin a layout design.  Any help with designing a not unrealistic plan would be gratefully appreciated.

 

The hope is that I will have somewhere entertaining to run my new "toys":

 

 

Design Parameters:

1.  Space available 6' x 1' self-contained (although I am trying to find space to add another 2' to this to add a separate fiddle yard/sector plate))

2.  Gauge = 00

3.  Southern region - late 1950s

4.  Suburban electrics with a small amount of local freight

5.  Maximum train length = 2'

 

Please feel free to ask as many questions or point me to existing designs/prototype locations as you think would be helpful.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Pete 75C]

Maybe consider the Caterham or Tattenham branches from Purley or a fictional version thereof? With even a heavily condensed track plan, 2 coach EMUs wouldn't look out of place and your timescale would allow for a limited amount of local freight. Epsom Downs in the 50s was quite considerable (as I suppose was Tattenham Corner) because of raceday traffic but with just 6ft to play with, you're going to have to make compromises! Link to Caterham diagram below as an example: Good luck! Pete.

 

http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/src/R1795.htm

[Oldddudders]

We already have a fine model of Bromley North on RMweb, albeit set 3 decades later than your intended timeframe, but it shows what can be done with a little more space than you have. There were suburban termini at Hayes and Addiscombe, too - but both had 10-car capacity platforms. Lifeboatman has already offered the Central Division prototype termini, but another line you might investigate is the former West Croydon - Wimbledon route, which ran with 2-car trains all day, and had freight here and there. Could the layout have a through 2-car passenger service, with a simple fiddle siding one end, while the freight service came and went back to the larger fiddle yard? 

[Alex TM]

Hi again folks,

 

Thanks for the links and suggestions.  Having had a quick look online at some of them I can say that there are a lot of interesting ideas there.  As to the possibility of through passenger services, I must admit I hadn't thought of it however it's not out of the question.

 

As for freight my thoughts were on short trains to serve a local yard for domestic coal, with another siding to serve some small industry.  In terms of motive power I was thinking of ex-LBSC steam classes A1x, E4, and Drewry class 04 diesel.

 

Once more thanks for these pointers.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[maunsel]

There is of course Elm Park

 

 

 

And a version of Newcastle Haymarket could be adapted into some form of Holborn Viaduct come Blackfriars come Cannon Street.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGv_KKEQKMw&list=PL-HeJ0TIKH5_fTaaSPlOtxiJl7JOdS2Dd&index=16

 

 

6x1 - plenty of room.

 

 

Eric.

[maunsel]

And another. How about some adaption of Neil Rushby's Abergwynant

 

http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page53a/index.html

 

4th layout down.

 

 

 

Eric.

[Del]

There is a 're-imagining' of Caterham, called 'Harestone', in Iain Rice's 'Designs for Urban Layouts' book, which is just a touch over 6' long but a little deeper at 18" (I think) and would pretty much fit the bill.

[Pete 75C]

For running 2 car EMUs without compromise, Ian's suggestion of the West Croydon - Wimbledon branch is a good one that I hadn't considered. Coal traffic is (was) justified by the power station and facilities at Waddon Marsh. If you did have a little extra room for a basic sector plate or fiddle yard at each end, modelling a through station is a nice minimum space alternative to a 3rd rail BLT. Reminds me of Brockley Green which I always thought was a wonderful layout.

[Black Sheep]

Completely fictional but Frankland is capturing the feel and essence of Southern '30's suburbia in N gauge

[sparks]

A bit later than your rolling stock suggests, but there's always the North Woolwich branch which ran with 2-EPBs following electrification in the 1980s. There was also freight traffic to and from the Silvertown tramway. A layout suggestion (covering most of the branch) appeared in Railway Modeller for August 1980.

 

Edit:- Some photos

 

6303 North Woolwich by southern_paul, on Flickr

 

North Woolwich station with unit 6313 in 1985 by Tom Burnham, on Flickr

 

Unit 6314 at Silvertown in 1985 by Tom Burnham, on Flickr

[Xerces Fobe2]

A cut down version of Windsor & Eton Riverside or Hampton Court might fit the bill. Shepperton is another option and you can have a 6 wheel Pullman as well!

 

XF

[KTM]

A great dilemma and very close to my heart!

 

I'm dealing with approximately the same size, scaled up for O gauge so I thought I'd share an idea that others have suggested to me. Depending on how rural you want to go, there are examples like the Ardingly branch from Horsted Keynes which joins up with the main Brighton line. You could justify plenty of loco variety (LBSC and others) but you'll need to invent a terminus somewhere.

 

Watching with interest.

 

Jon.

[Pete 75C]

I hate threads like this. I'm now wondering if I can squeeze Waddon Marsh's island platform and a couple of sidings onto a 6x1 with a small sector plate at each end...

Only joking! Good luck with whatever you choose. Pete.

[roundhouse]

Led On Solent or Hayling ISland but changing history so that they got the third rail.

 

Gosport would be a superb looking one also but I fear that it would be too big.

[sparks]

For running 2 car EMUs without compromise, Ian's suggestion of the West Croydon - Wimbledon branch is a good one that I hadn't considered. Coal traffic is (was) justified by the power station and facilities at Waddon Marsh. If you did have a little extra room for a basic sector plate or fiddle yard at each end, modelling a through station is a nice minimum space alternative to a 3rd rail BLT. Reminds me of Brockley Green which I always thought was a wonderful layout.

 

This shot of the line always has me reaching for a Wills wayside station kit and some Ratio concrete lamps.....

 

Beddington Lane - 1 by Lost-Albion, on Flickr

[Pete 75C]

Yes, I know Beddington Lane well. That shot (if it wasn't for the warehouses in the background) would almost give a rural impression... far from it!

I do think that line offers some excellent modelling opportunities for the space-starved, me included.

[Alex TM]

Hi again folks,

 

Lots of brilliant ideas here; just a pity that life is too short and busy to build them all because they all have merit.  The only downside at the moment is that it looks as if I am going to be stuck with the six-foot length for the meantime. 

 

Just a couple of comments:

Newcastle Haymarket: was that one of ian Futers' creations?  I also seem not to remember the two carriage sidings in front of the fiddle-yard.

Brockly: I have had the pleasure of seeing both this and its successor in the flesh.  Both great layouts and both having some ingenious ideas to keep things interesting.

Silvertown:  Oh how I wish I had the space to build that plan as I was always attracted to it.

 

So far the "Beddington Lane" idea looks promising.  Having had a look online, there is a bracket signal in the vicinity of the box and the crossing.  The signal has three arms, one of which I assume is for the line along the branch, but what about the other two?  Anyone have a trackplan?

 

Once again, thanks for all the inspiration.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Pete 75C]

Yes, Newcastle Haymarket was by Ian Futers. Sold long ago, one of my biggest regrets is that I didn't buy it!

Re: Beddington Lane, the following diagram was posted on RMWeb a while back by The Bigbee Line. I can't remember which thread, so I hope he doesn't mind if I include it here.

 

 

[roythebus]

How about Merton Abbey, assuming it had stayed open and had been electrified? Morden Road, next to the Tri-ang Factory would give you an excuse for the old Triang container wagon to sit there.

[Alex TM]

Hi again,

 

Once more, thanks for all the responses with idea, photos and diagrams.  I am really pleasantly surprised by the amount of response this has generated so far.

 

In the OP I mentioned about my experiences at Reading (in the mid-'80s) and in the last twelve years on Merseyrail (voted the most popular company by commuters).  I think that what sparked the interest in the late '50s era was probably a layout that appeared in an MRC annual in the late '70s (?) where someone created a 00 impression of Victoria , Clapham, and a few other places.  All green coaches, BoB pacifics, and lots of units ..... wonderful!

 

Many thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[KTM]

I think that what sparked the interest in the late '50s era was probably a layout that appeared in an MRC annual in the late '70s (?) where someone created a 00 impression of Victoria , Clapham, and a few other places.  All green coaches, BoB pacifics, and lots of units ..... wonderful!

 

 

Alex,

 

I think I remember this layout. If it's the same one, it used a hidden return loop to represent one of the main terminals (Victoria) or maybe the other end of the line. Trains could continue to run over a rather long circuit a bit like an extended dumbbell. A very inspirational layout that took up a large room in a house  

 

I imagine it was quite a task to control with all those extended sections.

 

That is, of course, assuming it was the same layout!

 

Jon

[Alex TM]

Hi Jon,

 

I think we are talking of the same layout.  Line descended from the terminus to a small continuous run, but with a return dumbell of sorts to allow a direct run back to the terminus.  I'll try to find out it's proper name and the year of the annual.

 

Thanks again.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[jon_1066]

Here's an idea for you.  It is a through design loosely based on Waddon Marsh.  

 

 

It has a small fiddle yard on the RHS which could be used for cassettes.  Your EMUs would enter from the right into Waddon Marsh Halt just visible from under the bridge.  A single track traverser on the LHS would allow the train to be changed to the return path and it then returns back to the cassette.

 

The line at the back is the goods line.  Short goods trains would enter then proceed onto the traverser.  They would then back onto the sidings for the gas works.  After shunting they can run around their train and take the opposite route back to the cassette.

 

Scenery could be gas works and power station related eg

 

 

This is inspired by this

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/w/waddon_marsh/index6.shtml

[Foulounoux]

Hi Jon,

 

I think we are talking of the same layout.  Line descended from the terminus to a small continuous run, but with a return dumbell of sorts to allow a direct run back to the terminus.  I'll try to find out it's proper name and the year of the annual.

 

Thanks again.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

1976 I think. It was the first mrc annual I saw thanks to a sensible school library policy

[jon_1066]

A terminus idea for you:

 

 

It's a mash up of the Newcastle Haymarket and an Inglenook with a run around thrown in for good measure.  Basically you have a single passenger line that is 3rd rail and a separate goods line each with a cassette connection.  There is storage for your 2 car EMUs.  Freight can be shunted into the various sidings and you have a run around via the platform face.

 

eg scenery

 

 

Low relief goods facilities with perhaps a warehouse, parcels, loading bay, etc.  The advantage of this is your nice new EMUs are on display for much more of the time.