Hornby's Best Ever Models

[Hroth]

There is a pic on p.64 of Irwell's 'The Book of the Princess Royal Pacifics' ,of 46208 on the Merseyside Express  in 1956 looking about as grimy as your model of 46207, and one on p.59 of 6207 in 1949 just as grimy, so you are exonerated.   In neither case are cab numerals or tender emblem particularly legible.

 

Rob

At least with a Princess, there's a chance that if its in front of you, you've probably got the right one, they weren't a numerically strong class.  But in the latter days, it was common to see ordinary locos in all-over crud livery with a swipe of cleaning across the number just to confirm that the crew had the right one (ie not one of the clunkers!)

 

@toboldlygo:  Your weathering is -  striking... 

 

Afterthought:  I was looking through "From Crewe to Euston" by Rod Steele (Sutton Publishing 2007) today, and on page 41, there's a picture of 46207 at Tamworth, looking very black as depicted by toboldlygo, though there's no date for the picture.  However, its the tender insignia thats not visible, the cab side number  has been cleaned off!  

Edited June 18, 2014 by Hroth

[toboldlygo]

Remember the Yorkshire saying...."Where there's muck,there's brass."

Brass goes interesting colours in the high temperatures of Hell, also it becomes very soft and pliable...

[robmcg]

I have yet to meet two people who agree on 'realistic' weathering as applied by RTR manufacturers, all power to you for the outstanding versions you do. 

 

here is one I bought an hour ago...   by Linesideandlocos1    which will no doubt be my subject de jour in about a fortnight.

 

 

cheers,

 

Rob

 

 

 

[Ian Hargrave]

I have to confess that this is one Hornby model that does not do it for me.....sorry to say so....but...too many faults,particularly in the cab area..Smacks of toy town..I know I am expressing heresy but I speak as I find. A "Lizzie" but NOT as I knew them...we can do better than this....surely?

[toboldlygo]

I have to confess that this is one Hornby model that does not do it for me.....sorry to say so....but...too many faults,particularly in the cab area..Smacks of toy town..I know I am expressing heresy but I speak as I find. A "Lizzie" but NOT as I knew them...we can do better than this....surely?

 

Don't worry normal service will resume shortly... including a major rebuild of a rebuilt Merchant Navy

[Guest]

I'm not a big fan of anything off the Southern, but I will always welcome it if steam powers it's heart.

[robmcg]

I have to confess that this is one Hornby model that does not do it for me.....sorry to say so....but...too many faults,particularly in the cab area..Smacks of toy town..I know I am expressing heresy but I speak as I find. A "Lizzie" but NOT as I knew them...we can do better than this....surely?

 

Of course Hornby do better models, but you can buy a Lizzie on Ebay for typically 50 quid. and they aren't fragile like the best models, and they have silent strong mechanisms.  (I'm having a Princess-is-ok day having just bought two in a month)

 

I think the new 700 class, D16 and K1 will re-establish Hornby's credentials

[toboldlygo]

I'm not a big fan of anything off the Southern, but I will always welcome it if steam powers it's heart.

Whoops you shouldn't have said that about Southern.. the men in Malachite Green and Sunshine Yellow Lined Coats will come a knocking at your door....     

[Guest]

Whoops you shouldn't have said that about Southern.. the men in Malachite Green and Sunshine Yellow Lined Coats will come a knocking at your door....     

Read it again, slowly, and you'll realise what I said was completely different!

Edited June 17, 2014 by TTAMTWASOOC

[Ian Hargrave]

Of course Hornby do better models, but you can buy a Lizzie on Ebay for typically 50 quid. and they aren't fragile like the best models, and they have silent strong mechanisms.  (I'm having a Princess-is-ok day having just bought two in a month)

 

I think the new 700 class, D16 and K1 will re-establish Hornby's credentials

I'm certain they will.....but strong ,silent types that don't look the part have no place in my scheme of things,I'm afraid,regardless of performance......henceI will not look to augmenting my stock of Hornby Princess Royals.....poor cab and front end....verdict....must do better than this mediocre offering.

[toboldlygo]

Of course Hornby do better models, but you can buy a Lizzie on Ebay for typically 50 quid. and they aren't fragile like the best models, and they have silent strong mechanisms.  (I'm having a Princess-is-ok day having just bought two in a month)

 

I think the new 700 class, D16 and K1 will re-establish Hornby's credentials

 

The Lizzies are very solidly built and cheap when you know where to look - however a word to the wise, the wire they use on the later ones (with plugs and DCC socket in tender) is far to thin. The slightest short will melt the insulation.

[S.A.C Martin]

The Lizzies I think have the potential for an after-market replacement body shell sort of thing which we're seeing happen with Bachmann's V2s. Graeme King's V2 body shells are utterly superb - I have three of them waiting for chassis and some modelling time - and perhaps a 3D printed princess body shell to fit the Hornby chassis might find favour, particularly if it captures the look much better than Hornby's does.

 

Who is to say it won't be retooled though at some point…? It must be a perennial seller with the preserved locos of 46203 and 6201.

[Hroth]

Who is to say it won't be retooled though at some point…? It must be a perennial seller with the preserved locos of 46203 and 6201.

Its been a perennial seller since Rovex first introduced Princess Elizabeth in 1950.  I think there's been a few retoolings since then!

I'll have to photographically compare and contrast my example from the R0 set (1955ish) with 46207 some time.....  

[84A]

Hornby A3/A4 pre wired connector - they are both beautiful models with various different liveries. Actually, Hornby were producing models around that time (2004/5) that were pretty much unbeatable in my opinion (Q1, rebuilt BoB, etc). My dad (a staunch GWR fan) also rates them very highly - more so than the King currently on offer! At the time, the packaging was innovative - moving away from an all foam tray to a two-piece design, which I really like. None of the Bachmann models at the time came with tender pickups either - in terms of steam, it seemed to be the Patriots/Scots where things started going `south' for me.

 

I agree with the original poster - the O1 is a cracking model, but is an all one piece affair - the tender cannot be removed from the loco easily, and so is technically flawed from that point of view. 

[coachmann]

The Lizzies I think have the potential for an after-market replacement body shell sort of thing which we're seeing happen with Bachmann's V2s. Graeme King's V2 body shells are utterly superb - I have three of them waiting for chassis and some modelling time - and perhaps a 3D printed princess body shell to fit the Hornby chassis might find favour, particularly if it captures the look much better than Hornby's does.

 

Who is to say it won't be retooled though at some point…? It must be a perennial seller with the preserved locos of 46203 and 6201.

I think the Lizzie has come to a dead end and is incapable of being upgraded unless Hornby fits bevel-rim driving wheels. No point in doing a good body unless the chassis mods are done. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Is there an engine under all that mud?  C'mon, a smeared clean around the cabside number surely!!!!

 I can only repeat what I have posted before: as a small boy I thought the LMR actually painted its locos that 'interesting' all over grey brown tone. Don't recall anything clean at Watford or Snorbens. Whereas streaking along the ECML there were lovely gleaming green pacifics to be seen, and even the black engines were quite often shiny. The contrast was very marked in my mind.

[robmcg]

I think the Lizzie has come to a dead end and is incapable of being upgraded unless Hornby fits bevel-rim driving wheels. No point in doing a good body unless the chassis mods are done.

ok the Hornby Princess has some shortcomings but what about this? For me one of the pleasures of the A3, apart from the handsomeness of the design and its great history, is that Hornby fit most of the details for me.

 

This is a renamed 'Galtee More'.. to 60046 'Diamond Jubilee', with light weathering.

 

Certainly one of Hornby's best. And pre-4-pin-plug too...

 

Edited June 24, 2014 by robmcg

[Ian Hargrave]

Oh,that damned plug........why,why,oh why ?

[toboldlygo]

ok the Hornby Princess has some shortcomings but what about this? For me one of the pleasures of the A3, apart from the handsomeness of the design and its great history, is that Hornby fit most of the details for me.

 

This is a renamed 'Galtee More'.. to 60046 'Diamond Jubilee', with light weathering.

 

Certainly one of Hornby's best. And pre-4-pin-plug too...

 

60046_A3_portrait1_2a_r800.jpg

Bit more than just a rename, the tender's been swapped as well

[robmcg]

Bit more than just a rename, the tender's been swapped as well

Yes. 60046 had the larger tender in early and later BR days. Not sure when it had any tender changes. I change tenders on Hornby A3s regularly, having various combinations, probably not all exactly correct, the variations between different builds of tenders being many and various. Handrail heights, body subtleties and so on. Probably no two the same if you get really serious, rather like locos on a certain other more southern railway....

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

One thing I truly like about Hornby's A3 is that the deflectors can be removed with two flicks of the finger, for the thoroughbred appearance. Along with The CME we shall not name's pacifics, those deflectors don't figure in my version of ER.

Oh,that damned plug........why,why,oh why ?

Because it is a major improvement over the previous extremely dated, very visible, and vulnerable to damage drawbar and wipers affair?

 

I am not suggesting it is ideal: the better arrangement would be to have the socket on the loco rear, so that it is more readily accessible, and a blanking plug arranged to connect the pick ups directly to the motor terminals enables the loco to be run alone as a DC unit. Just that bit more conveient than having to tape the plug lead to the rear to prevent it snagging on the layout when running the loco alone with the plug blanked off with a socket.

[railroadbill]

I've got 2 Hornby rebuilt WC/BB locos (padstow and 213 Squadron) with the "drawbar and wipers" arrangement where the tender coupling pin just drops into the hole in the drawbar. The gap between loco and tender looks a bit too large. On a skinley drawing of the loco the gap is 2.3 mm but the same dimension on the models is 6.8mm.  Skinley drawings of other express locos also show a loco/tender gap of 2.3mm,  dimension of full size gap is 7" on drawing which is 2.3mm in 4mm to ft scale.

 

What would be the best way to shorten the drawbar - I could cut it and drill another hole for the screw holding it to the loco, or would it be best to make a new drawbar and hard wire the pickups (no-one seem to like the later Hornby plug arrangement!)  Or am I just missing a simple way to rearrange the drawbar?  My layout has a minimum radius of 30" so should be able to get away with a nearer to scale gap.

Edited June 25, 2014 by railroadbill

[Ian Hargrave]

One thing I truly like about Hornby's A3 is that the deflectors can be removed with two flicks of the finger, for the thoroughbred appearance. Along with The CME we shall not name's pacifics, those deflectors don't figure in my version of ER.

 

Because it is a major improvement over the previous extremely dated, very visible, and vulnerable to damage drawbar and wipers affair?

 

I am not suggesting it is ideal: the better arrangement would be to have the socket on the loco rear, so that it is more readily accessible, and a blanking plug arranged to connect the pick ups directly to the motor terminals enables the loco to be run alone as a DC unit. Just that bit more conveient than having to tape the plug lead to the rear to prevent it snagging on the layout when running the loco alone with the plug blanked off with a socket.

I seriously question "major improvement" and ,regarding damage,I have never experienced any problems.....whereas,it is all too easy to cause a break in the wiring with the plug & tender awkwardly placed socket.Once installed,it is best left undisturbed.Removing it either requires nimble,supple fingers and hawk eyed vision or Hornby's special tool. ...which I must invest in,I keep reminding myself.Thus,for returning the model to the original Hornby box,you are stuffed,unless you indulge in polystyrene carving with a craft knife

Performance? On DC analogue,to compare ....A4 drawbar & wiper versions run better than plug & socket Merlin,a later version.

It would be helpful if Hornby adopted some consistency throughout the range with semi-permanent coupling and new style packaging.We currently have a mixture of both,...viz: Great Gathering A4....plug & socket....new Star & recent version Grange...semi permanent and new clear bubble packaging.The new sound version rebuilt Bulleid does use the new system,thus,hopefully,what should be on the market in future will adopt this method.Fingers crossed.....in my case,literally.

[Market65]

Hi, what I've done about the plug and socket, as well as the drawbar, is as follows. Using brass sheet(I think it's about 1/16th), and measuring the gap for use on my layouts minimum radius, which gives the length, and having copied the width off the existing drawbar, I drill one hole at each end to take what are in fact 6BA screws. On the front of the tender, where the 'projection' is that the existing drawbar hole goes up into, this 'projection' is removed and a hole drilled in it's place to take a 6BA screw. Then, the new drawbar is screwed into place, with the 6BA screws. After that the plug can be permanently put into it's socket, which gives the 'semi-permanent' arrangement that Hornby are now using.

You should find that you can lift the loco' and tender 'as one' with much less risk to the plug and it's wiring(as on the B1 for example).

 

I hope that all of this is of some help and what I have written is legible!

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

[railroadbill]

Hi, what I've done about the plug and socket, as well as the drawbar, is as follows. Using brass sheet(I think it's about 1/16th), and measuring the gap for use on my layouts minimum radius, which gives the length, and having copied the width off the existing drawbar, I drill one hole at each end to take what are in fact 6BA screws. On the front of the tender, where the 'projection' is that the existing drawbar hole goes up into, this 'projection' is removed and a hole drilled in it's place to take a 6BA screw. Then, the new drawbar is screwed into place, with the 6BA screws. After that the plug can be permanently put into it's socket, which gives the 'semi-permanent' arrangement that Hornby are now using.

You should find that you can lift the loco' and tender 'as one' with much less risk to the plug and it's wiring(as on the B1 for example).

 

I hope that all of this is of some help and what I have written is legible!

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

Thnaks for that, Market65. Looks like a new shorter drawbar will be the answer for these locos.