Train spotting at Finsbury Square

[Mallard60022]

31A, modest Controller that he is, neglected to say that although the naughty boys at Grantham had forgotten to coal the loco adequately, they had repaired one of the wings that was dislodged when the loco hit a low flying duck near Retford and also cured a problem with the tender/loco coupling fittings that were also causing concern on the run south.

Willywonder, as the spotters will learn to call it, will be cured of all ills by Mr.Townend's gang once it has limped into Top Shed.

N.Gresly.

Edited January 13, 2018 by Mallard60022

[31A]

31A, modest Controller that he is, neglected to say that although the naughty boys at Grantham had forgotten to coal the loco adequately, they had repaired one of the wings that was dislodged when the loco hit a low flying duck near Retford and also cured a problem with the tender/loco coupling fittings that were also causing concern on the run south.

Willywonder, as the spotters will learn to call it, will be cured of all ills by Mr.Townend's gang once it has limped into Top Shed.

N.Gresly.

 

 

Thank you, Phil!  60055 having now made her way back on shed, the (not too fat) Controller is pleased to hear from the Running Inspectors that very little more will need to be done, and she is a very good runner; just as well, as some of the other A3s are beginning to get a bit rough.

[31A]

Finsbury Square also receives a few parcels trains during the day; these are worked by locos in the suburban passenger links.  Here, D5905 (working Diagram 23 in the Outer Suburban Link) is leaving Platform 1 to shunt to Platform 2.  The Drivers need further instruction in the use of Headcode Discs.  As the vans it brought in are already being propelled back into the parcels dock, the loco's shunt move is via the Up Main which gives a rare chance to see Signal 27 pulled off.

 

 

Later, D5905 leaves Platform 2 with the outwards vans.  Like most train spotters of the day, little attention is paid to parcels vans but some think the van behind the loco is of quite a rare type!

 

[Jamiel]

Wonderful to see a new series of photos of this excellent urban layout. Great inspiration for those of us who model town and city locations.

Thank you.

Jamie

[danstercivicman]

It's great to see and the new photos are inspiring

[Mallard60022]

Ummmm, diseasels. There are a couple of redundant loco's at 36E at the moment that have been allocated to the south end of the ER before. I wonder if a Depot transfer could be arranged? They are just rusting away and of no use locally.

Phil 

[George Hudson]

You really have the feel of Clerkenwell here.  I think I'll move Aldergate nearer the City I don't want to be in competition!

 

Excellent work.

 

Andrew

[31A]

Wonderful to see a new series of photos of this excellent urban layout. Great inspiration for those of us who model town and city locations.

 

Thank you.

 

Jamie

 

 

It's great to see and the new photos are inspiring

 

 

Thanks both!  I've got a few more pictures up my sleeve, if you can put up with boring still photos of shunt moves!

[31A]

You really have the feel of Clerkenwell here.  I think I'll move Aldergate nearer the City I don't want to be in competition!

 

Excellent work.

 

Andrew

 

Thank you Andrew!  To be honest quite a few of the 'backdrop' buildings towards the left hand end are adapted from American kits, and were only meant to be temporary.  The row of Georgian houses was made from resin castings which I obtained from Il Dottore of this forum, but I still need a building to fill the gap (bomb site?) to the left of them.  I wonder whether some of the atmosphere comes from the colouring of the buildings - for most of them, I've tried to capture the colour of London yellow bricks.

[31A]

Ummmm, diseasels. There are a couple of redundant loco's at 36E at the moment that have been allocated to the south end of the ER before. I wonder if a Depot transfer could be arranged? They are just rusting away and of no use locally.

Phil 

 

Thanks Phil.  I've got plenty of steam locos as well, although others are always welcome as long as they are remotely suitable!  The time period for the layout is a bit flexible; in reality the GN suburban lines were (in theory) dieselised in 1959, but I have some locos that were withdrawn in 1958 and others that didn't exist until 1961!  The photographs are just of trains as they turned up according to the timetable, and today quite a few turned out to be diesels.

 

Quite a satisfying thing about the system I've devised for rostering locos is that you don't actually choose for yourself which ones to run - the computer does it for you, and they all get used equally in turn.  It's a bit like being an innocent bystander on a station not knowing what to expect next, or like an engineman signing on duty wth an idea of what class of engine to expect, but with the exact one having been chosen by Control, or the Running Foreman.  Previously I found that 'favourites' tended to get used a lot, while others were hardly seen.  The various 'Links' have different numbers of 'diagrams' in them, and also contain different numbers of locos (those not diagrammed being 'spare' until their turn comes), so the juxtapositions of different locos seem to be endless.

[Jamiel]

Thanks both!  I've got a few more pictures up my sleeve, if you can put up with boring still photos of shunt moves!

 

In a word, yes.

 

It is not only the rolling stock, but the urban landscape and the weathering across the whole layout that I find so interring.

 

Jamie

[jonny777]

Thanks Phil.  I've got plenty of steam locos as well, although others are always welcome as long as they are remotely suitable!  The time period for the layout is a bit flexible; in reality the GN suburban lines were (in theory) dieselised in 1959, but I have some locos that were withdrawn in 1958 and others that didn't exist until 1961!  The photographs are just of trains as they turned up according to the timetable, and today quite a few turned out to be diesels.

 

Quite a satisfying thing about the system I've devised for rostering locos is that you don't actually choose for yourself which ones to run - the computer does it for you, and they all get used equally in turn.  It's a bit like being an innocent bystander on a station not knowing what to expect next, or like an engineman signing on duty wth an idea of what class of engine to expect, but with the exact one having been chosen by Control, or the Running Foreman.  Previously I found that 'favourites' tended to get used a lot, while others were hardly seen.  The various 'Links' have different numbers of 'diagrams' in them, and also contain different numbers of locos (those not diagrammed being 'spare' until their turn comes), so the juxtapositions of different locos seem to be endless.

 

 

 

I had a variation of that system on a layout many years ago. It was a card system (a bit like the US boxcar shunting system) with one pile for locos, and another pile which was a random set of "chance" occurrences. I shuffled the piles regularly so that I could not predict which combination might come up. 

 

It worked really well for creating unpredictable situations which needed to be sorted quickly to keep the timetable running. 

[31A]

I had a variation of that system on a layout many years ago. It was a card system (a bit like the US boxcar shunting system) with one pile for locos, and another pile which was a random set of "chance" occurrences. I shuffled the piles regularly so that I could not predict which combination might come up. 

 

It worked really well for creating unpredictable situations which needed to be sorted quickly to keep the timetable running. 

 

 

The system I'm using at the moment is just a first stab at bringing order from chaos!  It works quite well, but the locos step through the links in numerical order of running number which is why some days all four diagrams in the 'Express Passenger' link will be covered by A3s, for example.  I'd like to introduce a random element into it and shuffling cards might be a good way.  I'd also like to introduce a 'wild card' so that once in a blue moon a loco might turn up that you'd never expect to see there, like a BR Standard 2-6-4T for example - it would be a way of using some engines I've bought just because they were nice models!

[danstercivicman]

Hello, excuse my ignorance-what are these links you speak of?

[31A]

The 'link' system is used for train crews at train crew depots; I'm not sure whether it's really used for locos but basically it's a way of organising the work.

 

There are six links for the main line locos - Inner Suburban (7 diagrams - N2s and Type 1 diesels), Outer Suburban (8 diagrams - L1s, Brush 2s, BRCW Type 2, Baby Deltics), Main Line (GN) (5 diagrams - B1s, K3s, Standard 5), Main Line (GE) (4 diagrams - B17, B12, D16, K1, Brush 2), Express Passenger (4 diagrams - Pacifics, Type 4 and Type 5 diesels), Goods (3 diagrams - all sorts).

 

Each link includes all the locos in the above classes, listed in numerical order.  In the Express Passenger link for example, the first four locos are allocated to the four diagrams in that link and the rest are shown as spare.  At the end of the day, the loco from the bottom of the list for that link goes to the top, onto the first diagram, and the rest all move down one, so the one that was on the fourth diagram moves down to the top of the 'spares'.  And so it goes on!

 

In theory the ones that are spare can have any maintenance carried out, or it might be the time I get around to weathering them or adding crews etc.  Or they could deputise for failures.  However the Inner Suburban link has no spare locos (roll on Oxford Rail N7!), and the Outer Suburban has only one spare.  However this does mean that the suburban locos turn up repeatedly, which would be the case in real life.  At the other extreme, the Goods Link has nine spares, so when an engine goes onto 'spare' it can be a long time before it appears again.

[great northern]

The system I'm using at the moment is just a first stab at bringing order from chaos!  It works quite well, but the locos step through the links in numerical order of running number which is why some days all four diagrams in the 'Express Passenger' link will be covered by A3s, for example.  I'd like to introduce a random element into it and shuffling cards might be a good way.  I'd also like to introduce a 'wild card' so that once in a blue moon a loco might turn up that you'd never expect to see there, like a BR Standard 2-6-4T for example - it would be a way of using some engines I've bought just because they were nice models!

Two standard 2.6.4T were at 34A for a while in the late 50s, Steve, so no problem there. I'll try to find the details tomorrow.

[31A]

Two standard 2.6.4T were at 34A for a while in the late 50s, Steve, so no problem there. I'll try to find the details tomorrow.

 

 

Thank you, Gilbert.  I'd be interested to hear more about that!  I do already have an LMS Class 5 in the GN Main Line link ...

[danstercivicman]

The 'link' system is used for train crews at train crew depots; I'm not sure whether it's really used for locos but basically it's a way of organising the work.

 

There are six links for the main line locos - Inner Suburban (7 diagrams - N2s and Type 1 diesels), Outer Suburban (8 diagrams - L1s, Brush 2s, BRCW Type 2, Baby Deltics), Main Line (GN) (5 diagrams - B1s, K3s, Standard 5), Main Line (GE) (4 diagrams - B17, B12, D16, K1, Brush 2), Express Passenger (4 diagrams - Pacifics, Type 4 and Type 5 diesels), Goods (3 diagrams - all sorts).

 

Each link includes all the locos in the above classes, listed in numerical order. In the Express Passenger link for example, the first four locos are allocated to the four diagrams in that link and the rest are shown as spare. At the end of the day, the loco from the bottom of the list for that link goes to the top, onto the first diagram, and the rest all move down one, so the one that was on the fourth diagram moves down to the top of the 'spares'. And so it goes on!

 

In theory the ones that are spare can have any maintenance carried out, or it might be the time I get around to weathering them or adding crews etc. Or they could deputise for failures. However the Inner Suburban link has no spare locos (roll on Oxford Rail N7!), and the Outer Suburban has only one spare. However this does mean that the suburban locos turn up repeatedly, which would be the case in real life. At the other extreme, the Goods Link has nine spares, so when an engine goes onto 'spare' it can be a long time before it appears again.

Great information!

 

I will try and reproduce it on my minories

[George Hudson]

Thank you Andrew!  To be honest quite a few of the 'backdrop' buildings towards the left hand end are adapted from American kits, and were only meant to be temporary.  The row of Georgian houses was made from resin castings which I obtained from Il Dottore of this forum, but I still need a building to fill the gap (bomb site?) to the left of them.  I wonder whether some of the atmosphere comes from the colouring of the buildings - for most of them, I've tried to capture the colour of London yellow bricks.

 

I have thought about a bomb site also because a) it's authentic and b) breaks up the general scene and allows viewing access to otherwise hidden details.  I agreed on the colouring; e.g layouts set in the midlands have to have lots of red brick, further north stone is critical for the look and London brick (I think it's called gault brick?) is definitely the Clerkenwell area's fingerprint.  I also think it's  important to get an overall homogenous look to a model which you certainly have.  Think also of the iconic, now dismantled, Tetley Mills.  I try this with a liberal wash of white spirit with a dod of black in it!  

 

Andrew

[caradoc]

Great photos of a really impressive layout Steve, and operated in a prototypical fashion as well !

[great northern]

Thank you, Gilbert.  I'd be interested to hear more about that!  I do already have an LMS Class 5 in the GN Main Line link ...

 I've done a bit of research Steve, and found an entry in Eric Neve's book East Coast from Kings Cross which states that 80103/37 went on loan to 34A in the summer of 1958, from Plaistow and Neasden respectively. It was a period when L1s were stalling frequently when removing ECS from the terminus, so that may have been the reason. I can't find any record of transfers, but as it was a loan, I don't suppose there would have been. Anyway, it seems they were there. Also, when Neasden was a part of the KX area locos from there sometimes came to the main shed for repairs, and were then run in on GN duties before being sent back, so if you extend your time period a bit further back there is another excuse.

[31A]

 I've done a bit of research Steve, and found an entry in Eric Neve's book East Coast from Kings Cross which states that 80103/37 went on loan to 34A in the summer of 1958, from Plaistow and Neasden respectively. It was a period when L1s were stalling frequently when removing ECS from the terminus, so that may have been the reason. I can't find any record of transfers, but as it was a loan, I don't suppose there would have been. Anyway, it seems they were there. Also, when Neasden was a part of the KX area locos from there sometimes came to the main shed for repairs, and were then run in on GN duties before being sent back, so if you extend your time period a bit further back there is another excuse.

 

 

Thank you for the information Gilbert - that's interesting!  I'll have read that book myself, but must have forgotten that bit.  I've just had looked out my Standard 4 Tank, and find it is numbered 80097 which was a Plaistow and then Tilbury loco, so running in after Stratford attention might be another 'excuse'!  Or I could renumber it.

[31A]

I have thought about a bomb site also because a) it's authentic and b) breaks up the general scene and allows viewing access to otherwise hidden details.  I agreed on the colouring; e.g layouts set in the midlands have to have lots of red brick, further north stone is critical for the look and London brick (I think it's called gault brick?) is definitely the Clerkenwell area's fingerprint.  I also think it's  important to get an overall homogenous look to a model which you certainly have.  Think also of the iconic, now dismantled, Tetley Mills.  I try this with a liberal wash of white spirit with a dod of black in it!  

 

Andrew

 

Thank you, Andrew.  For the 'London brick' buildings I've used Humbrol 93 'Desert Yellow' which has the advantage of being available in aerosol.  I then weathered the brickwork by dry brushing with a mixture of black and dark brown to discolour the brickwork whilst leaving the mortar visible and enough of the bricks themselves to give the impression of yellow bricks underneath.  I've found it difficult to get an even covering on the brickwork, sometimes it's come out better than others which you may be able to see in the photos, but from pictures from the period of real buildings, they should probably really be all over black!

[31A]

A look at the station pilots this evening.  These locos are vital to the station's operation, and two are needed.  The West Side (or Goods) pilot has already been seen in action; this is a 204hp Diesel and the same loco stays on the job for several days, the accountants in their ivory tower having been persuaded by the arguments of the economies of diesel operation.  The East Side pilots are busier, and carry out Passenger shunting - these turns are covered by suitable tank engines, or 350hp Diesels.  These locos are changed over on a daily basis, and any spotters around in the early morning can see both in the station at the same time, as the new loco arrives with a train of empty coaches, then later the 'relieved' engine departs with an empty van train.  In the picture below, J50 68987 has just arrived while J52 68846 already has its headlamps in position for its outward working.

 

 

An early job for the newly-arrived Passenger pilot is to remove a First Class coach from the rear of an otherwise second class only inner suburban train which has arrived in Platform 3, and shunt it to the middle siding.

 

 

This coach is stabled during the day, and later attached to the rear of another second class only set (which has also been stabled in the middle siding) to make an evening rush hour departure.  Getting this train into position in Platform 4 is one of the more complicated moves, involving a double shunt, first drawn out from the middle siding to the up siding (headhunt), then propelling into Platform 2, reversing there and out onto the Down Main from where the set is propelled again into Platform 4, as seen in the picture below.  Having detached, the pilot then returns to the up siding following the same route in reverse.  You may want to look at the track diagram on page 1 of this thread to follow how this works!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[danstercivicman]

Brilliant stuff