Train spotting at Finsbury Square

[Lacathedrale]

I've heard of this layout, but never seen it - wonderful.

 

If I understand your operating schedule properly, you have all operations broken into outer/inner/goods/etc. "links" and then each link has a breakdown of which diagrams, and then each diagram with what train numbers and associated movement?  How do you coordinate that into a sequence?

 

I do like the look of those pre-warning panel diesels - very smart stuff.

[caradoc]

No room there I'm afraid, Phil - with running lines on either side, not a very safe place to go swinging water cranes around, or doing anything else to the engine for that matter!  There is a water crane at the 'country' end of Platforms 2 & 3 which they can use, and I have thought about putting them (probably standpipe type) at the buffer stop ends but haven't got around to it yet.

 

There's a very simple answer to that problem Steve - Go all-diesel !

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

There's a very simple answer to that problem Steve - Go all-diesel !

 

The Accountants would agree

[31A]

I've heard of this layout, but never seen it - wonderful.

 

If I understand your operating schedule properly, you have all operations broken into outer/inner/goods/etc. "links" and then each link has a breakdown of which diagrams, and then each diagram with what train numbers and associated movement?  How do you coordinate that into a sequence?

 

I do like the look of those pre-warning panel diesels - very smart stuff.

 

 

I think putting it simply, I devised the sequence first then wrote down what the locos do, which produced the loco diagrams!  Actually perhaps not that different to what happens in real life!

 

I had decided that certain types of train would be worked by certain types of loco, which produced the loco "links".  If you can open the spreadsheet I attached a few pages back, it should give you an idea of how the "links" work; the locos rotate within them in numerical order.

[Lacathedrale]

So your source of authority are the diagrams/train numbers, and your 'links' are  a way of ensuring some variety of motive power aforementioned trains/diagrams? Seems logical and an interesting process, 'locomotive links' on google isn't a particularly  fertile ground of information other than a Quora question about indian state railways; I didn't know it was a thing

[31A]

So your source of authority are the diagrams/train numbers, and your 'links' are  a way of ensuring some variety of motive power aforementioned trains/diagrams? Seems logical and an interesting process, 'locomotive links' on google isn't a particularly  fertile ground of information other than a Quora question about indian state railways; I didn't know it was a thing

 

Yes, basically.  The term "links" is certainly used in this country in respect of train crew and other shift working railway staff but I'm not sure that it's applied to locomotives, in reality.  Staff at a depot are placed in links which determine what types of work covered by that depot they carry out - I've done something similar with the locos.  It would happen in reality but I'm not sure they used that term for the actual locos; for example (putting it simply) a depot's allocation might include Pacifics which would be used for Express Passenger, 4-6-0s which would be used for Stopping Passenger, 2-6-4Ts for Outer Suburban, 0-6-2Ts for Inner Suburban, etc., which is what I've done.

['CHARD]

Yes, basically.  The term "links" is certainly used in this country in respect of train crew and other shift working railway staff but I'm not sure that it's applied to locomotives, in reality.  Staff at a depot are placed in links which determine what types of work covered by that depot they carry out - I've done something similar with the locos.  It would happen in reality but I'm not sure they used that term for the actual locos; 

 

It would possibly be referred to as a loco 'pool,' reflecting the power and other characteristics required for/ typical of related diagrams operated from a particular depot.

 

In my circumstances I expect to have the freight tripper (or 'target') pool, the Class 2 (stopping train and parcels) pool, Class 1 (express, sleeper and mails) pool and the Class 4 (fast freight) pool.  DMUs exist in their own bubble.

 

Clearly there is some overlap, and based on diagrams there is a degree of progression between pools for certain locos on particular duties.  Plus 'foreigners' coming on the patch and being co-opted for either captive workings to deputise for non-availability of local traction, or to work them back 'off-patch' to their home area.

[leopardml2341]

............. DMUs exist in their own bubble.

 

Car?

['CHARD]

Car?

 

I'll set 'em up, our kid!  

[31A]

It would possibly be referred to as a loco 'pool,' reflecting the power and other characteristics required for/ typical of related diagrams operated from a particular depot.

 

In my circumstances I expect to have the freight tripper (or 'target') pool, the Class 2 (stopping train and parcels) pool, Class 1 (express, sleeper and mails) pool and the Class 4 (fast freight) pool.  DMUs exist in their own bubble.

 

Clearly there is some overlap, and based on diagrams there is a degree of progression between pools for certain locos on particular duties.  Plus 'foreigners' coming on the patch and being co-opted for either captive workings to deputise for non-availability of local traction, or to work them back 'off-patch' to their home area.

 

 

Yes perhaps that would be a better word; although more redolent of the TOPS era in my mind than steam days.  Not quite sure how to describe what I mean, really!

[trisonic]

One of my all time favourite English layouts.....(I've been away from this site for a bit).

 

Best, Pete.

[danstercivicman]

Any updates...

 

This layout is amazing

[31A]

I don't think there is at the moment, I'm afraid.  I've been playing around with yet another A3, so hopefully there should be some pictures of that before too long.  Thanks for asking, and glad you like the layout!

[31A]

Thanks Dan, for spurring me into action.  Or at least thinking about action.

 

I've recently been installing semaphore signals, and have turned my attention to the platform starting signals. Up to now, their place has been taken by dummy colour lights acting as 'place markers'.  I'll do the Platform 4 starter first, as it means reaching over to the back of the baseboard to get to it.  So today I've made a cardboard mock up of what this signal might look like.

 

The pictures below show the general view, and a driver's eye (or maybe second man's eye) view from the cab of a train in Platform 4.  

 

 

 

The subsidiary arm routes towards the yard - either straight ahead (Siding 1) or to the left (Siding 2).  The upper main arm leads to the Down Slow, by taking the right hand route and then left at the single slip, and the lower main arm leads to the Down Fast by taking the right hand route and then straight on at the single slip.

 

Ideally the signal would be located where the dummy colour light is, but there wouldn't be clearance for the underground connections in that position.  It will be tight enough as it is!

 

The signal will be made using Model Signal Engineering components from Wizard Models.  The bracket is the longest LNER (ex GN) type they do as far as I can see, described as "11 Foot Bracket".  Potentially the bracket could be longer, but nevertheless the signals are visible from Platform 4.  The main post is described as "23 Foot Base Post"; potentially it could be shortened to the same height as the Ratio lattice post, which works out at about 17'.

 

I imagine in reality there could be two subsidiary arms, routing to either Siding 1 or Siding 2, but I want to keep things as simple as possible.  I may provide a (non working) electric stencil-type route indicator to give that information.

 

I may put some railings on the top of the retaining wall parapet, to stop the local kids from fiddling with the sub. arm! The ready to plonk lamp hut on the platform is also temporary in theory, but has been there for a long time.

 

Anyway, what does anybody think?!

 

Edited to attach the pictures!

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by 31A

[simon b]

Looks good, but I think the colour lights add to the atmosphere a little better. Perhaps leave the platform starters as colour lights and use semaphores further out, gives a little variety that way.

 

Fantastic layout, certainly a source of inspiration for me. 

[31A]

Looks good, but I think the colour lights add to the atmosphere a little better. Perhaps leave the platform starters as colour lights and use semaphores further out, gives a little variety that way.

 

Fantastic layout, certainly a source of inspiration for me. 

 

Thanks Simon, for the suggestion and the appreciation!  I must say, I do like semaphores, and the layout doesn't go much further out, but on the other hand the colour lights do look quite appropriate, and the signals tend to be looked at from the side so the fact that they don't actually work perhaps doesn't matter too much and certainly makes things simpler.  Food for thought!

[31A]

This morning one of the train spotters was crossing the bridge in front of the station, as the mid morning express ran into Platform 1 behind an unusually grubby A3.  Raising his camera, he realised it was the last Top Shed A3 he needed!  Better keep quiet about that though, as it's been a 34A loco for a couple of years.  Glimpsing the nameplate as the engine rolled under the bridge, his thoughts turned to what was in his packed lunch.

 

 

Later he was able to get a couple of better pictures as the released loco crossed to Platform 2, and then set off tender first for turning and servicing.

 

 

 

In reality, I came by yet another Hornby A3 when a friend rang me from a toy fair in Newton Abbott of all places, to say there was a "Windsor Lad" for sale at a good price and would I like it?  Well, what's not to like??  But when I looked up 60035, it seems to have been a Scottish engine all it's life (if you include Carlisle Canal) which is probably why I'd never bought that model before.

 

When it got to mine, I found it was in decent condition but some bits were missing - smokebox door handles, reverser reach rod, damper lever (under the cab, Fireman's side) and cab doors.

 

So it seemed a good time to get the Brassmasters A3 detailing kit out of the drawer at last.  This provided the reverser reach rod, damper lever and other useful bits.  A rummage in the Scrap Box (Loco Dept.) produced a nice set of smokebox door handles in a packet labelled "GW Models" (don't know whether they're still going?) and some Alan Gibson bogie wheels.  I also found a nice turned brass A3 chimney.  There's not too much wrong with the Hornby A3 chimney as far as I can see, but if I was ever going to use this brass one instead of admire its unopened Crownlne packaging, now was the time.

 

I made a start on the bits in the Brassmasters kit, having ordered a set of plates for 60039 "Sandwich" from Fox.  The Brassmasters kit gives you new overlays for the front of the frames, incorporating the bogie wheel splashers and buffer spring housings, to which the front steps are attached.  I must admit I found some of this fiddly to solder together but it has the advantage of putting the front steps in the right place so they no longer foul platform edges or clout ground signals.  Some of the pieces needed some reinforcement (blocks of Plastikard) from behind to allow them to be securely attached.

 

This shows most of the parts attached to the loco (at this point I'd already painted the smokebox door handles):

 

 

I was able to find colour pictures showing both sides of 60039, taken at Grantham in 1959, which showed the later style BR emblem on the tender, so I set about removing the early one.  I've done this several times before, but this one refused to budge!  I tried T-Cut, acrylic paint thinners, white spirit, meths - nothing.  In the end I'd polished through the green paint and revealed black plastic before I could get the emblems off!  So this was going to be an uncharacteristically dirty engine .... And following that experience, I decided to cheat a bit with the renumbering, and just replace the last digit.

 

Whilst on the tender, I shortened the engine - tender gap by removing the coupling pin, and drilling a hole about 3mm behind for a new one from an 8BA bolt.

 

About this point, a friend reminded me that this batch of A3s had different rear valve spindle guides - the so-called "American" type, similar to those on A4s, V2s etc!  I pondered how (or whether) to do anything about this, and in the end ordered a set of Hornby A4 cylinders from Peter's Spares, and cut the rear valve spindle guides off them and glued them onto 60039.

 

The above covers just about all the modifications I think, so the a coat of "Kleer" over the green bits and some weathering (well quite a lot, really), and there we have it, yet another A3 joins the fleet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CUTLER2579]

This morning one of the train spotters was crossing the bridge in front of the station, as the mid morning express ran into Platform 1 behind an unusually grubby A3.  Raising his camera, he realised it was the last Top Shed A3 he needed!  Better keep quiet about that though, as it's been a 34A loco for a couple of years.  Glimpsing the nameplate as the engine rolled under the bridge, his thoughts turned to what was in his packed lunch.

 

P1020956.jpg

 

Later he was able to get a couple of better pictures as the released loco crossed to Platform 2, and then set off tender first for turning and servicing.

 

P1020958.jpg

 

P1020959.jpg

 

In reality, I came by yet another Hornby A3 when a friend rang me from a toy fair in Newton Abbott of all places, to say there was a "Windsor Lad" for sale at a good price and would I like it?  Well, what's not to like??  But when I looked up 60035, it seems to have been a Scottish engine all it's life (if you include Carlisle Canal) which is probably why I'd never bought that model before.

 

When it got to mine, I found it was in decent condition but some bits were missing - smokebox door handles, reverser reach rod, damper lever (under the cab, Fireman's side) and cab doors.

 

So it seemed a good time to get the Brassmasters A3 detailing kit out of the drawer at last.  This provided the reverser reach rod, damper lever and other useful bits.  A rummage in the Scrap Box (Loco Dept.) produced a nice set of smokebox door handles in a packet labelled "GW Models" (don't know whether they're still going?) and some Alan Gibson bogie wheels.  I also found a nice turned brass A3 chimney.  There's not too much wrong with the Hornby A3 chimney as far as I can see, but if I was ever going to use this brass one instead of admire its unopened Crownlne packaging, now was the time.

 

I made a start on the bits in the Brassmasters kit, having ordered a set of plates for 60039 "Sandwich" from Fox.  The Brassmasters kit gives you new overlays for the front of the frames, incorporating the bogie wheel splashers and buffer spring housings, to which the front steps are attached.  I must admit I found some of this fiddly to solder together but it has the advantage of putting the front steps in the right place so they no longer foul platform edges or clout ground signals.  Some of the pieces needed some reinforcement (blocks of Plastikard) from behind to allow them to be securely attached.

 

This shows most of the parts attached to the loco (at this point I'd already painted the smokebox door handles):

 

P1020952.jpg

 

I was able to find colour pictures showing both sides of 60039, taken at Grantham in 1959, which showed the later style BR emblem on the tender, so I set about removing the early one.  I've done this several times before, but this one refused to budge!  I tried T-Cut, acrylic paint thinners, white spirit, meths - nothing.  In the end I'd polished through the green paint and revealed black plastic before I could get the emblems off!  So this was going to be an uncharacteristically dirty engine .... And following that experience, I decided to cheat a bit with the renumbering, and just replace the last digit.

 

Whilst on the tender, I shortened the engine - tender gap by removing the coupling pin, and drilling a hole about 3mm behind for a new one from an 8BA bolt.

 

About this point, a friend reminded me that this batch of A3s had different rear valve spindle guides - the so-called "American" type, similar to those on A4s, V2s etc!  I pondered how (or whether) to do anything about this, and in the end ordered a set of Hornby A4 cylinders from Peter's Spares, and cut the rear valve spindle guides off them and glued them onto 60039.

 

The above covers just about all the modifications I think, so the a coat of "Kleer" over the green bits and some weathering (well quite a lot, really), and there we have it, yet another A3 joins the fleet.

Steve,

Ian Harper once of Haymarket Cross used to do a Brass etched fret of A3 doors.They are sometimes for sale from different places,however contacting Ian direct via Scarborough Model Railway Club might be a better bet.

A belated Happy New Year,regards,Derek.

[danstercivicman]

No idea on the signals (not a railwayman) but loving the photos and the work in the A3! Very tasty! One of the best layouts it’s never dull looking through the pictures Keep up the great work!

Edited January 3, 2019 by danstercivicman

[31A]

Steve,

Ian Harper once of Haymarket Cross used to do a Brass etched fret of A3 doors.They are sometimes for sale from different places,however contacting Ian direct via Scarborough Model Railway Club might be a better bet.

A belated Happy New Year,regards,Derek.

 

Thank you Derek, I may take up that suggestion.  I'd half expected cab doors to be on the Brassmasters etch as the Hornby ones are quite fragile, but they weren't.  In some ways however I'm happy enough with the doors off, as having shortened the distance between engine and tender they can catch on the tender and cause problems.  I suppose they could have sometimes run with the doors open, or would they?

No idea on the signals (not a railwayman) but loving the photos and the work in the A3! Very tasty! One of the best layouts it’s never dull looking through the pictures Keep up the great work!

Thank you Dan, glad you like it - I'll see what else I can come up with !

[31A]

Train spotters didn't usually take much notice of boring old wagons in the 1950s, but a new one has recently turned up at Finsbury Square so I've put a picture of it over here:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/54704-31a-c-w/page-2&do=findComment&comment=3424368

[danstercivicman]

Good stuff! A nice van from a grounded can!

Good stuff! A nice van from a grounded van!

[31A]

Just thought I'd try out a picture upload using the new format.  I don't think we've had this one before.

 

 

61580 stands in Platform 2.  Strange that the chimney looks like a water crane.

 

Adding a single photo seemed easy enough, but is there still a preview facility?

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, 31A said:

Adding a single photo seemed easy enough, but is there still a preview facility?

 

There is; there's a little icon in the menu in the editor box with a page and magnifying glass which should show 'Preview' when you mouse over it.

[jwealleans]

I didn't know there was a preview facility on RMWeb?  I've always posted on the LNER forum first and used the Preview button on there.

 

Have you toned the lining down, Steve?  I've only seen a couple of these in the flesh and it looked quite garish on those.