Coarse Scale O Gauge

[Nearholmer]

Having mused about the scale to which MTH Stanier coaches are built in another thread, I got my sole example out, and stood it up against a "might be" Exley (it might be a kit-build, I'm not totally sure).

 

The MTH one does seem a bit slim in comparison, but, as you can see, the height isn't greatly different, so maybe they are true 1:43.5.

 

Does anyone know for certain?

 

Kevin

[brianusa]

Hi Kevin, the MTH catalogue refers to their Euro line as 1/43 - 1/45 but whether that extends to the UK is unclear.

 

Brian.

[Nearholmer]

Perhaps the catalogue is being very honest, and the scale is slightly indeterminate!

 

K

[trefin]

Hi, long time no posts but I'm still here!

I was wondering why the two pictured Lionel boxcars seem to be so different in size? Do any of you Lionel experts know?

 

Trevor.

[Spitfire2865]

Hi, long time no posts but I'm still here!

I was wondering why the two pictured Lionel boxcars seem to be so different in size? Do any of you Lionel experts know?

Trevor.image.jpg

I think it was just design choice. Many prewar trains didnt exactly adhere to a scale, so you could get variation.

[trefin]

There is certainly lots of variation in size and/or scale of the buildings and accessories, as the largish water tower and the small goods shed in the picture show. However rolling stock sizes normally seem to stay fairly constant throughout a particular maker's range. I knew the 'Baby Ruth' boxcar was smaller but didn't realise how much smaller until I put the two together.

 

Trevor.

[brianusa]

Lionel always had a two tier train system presumably for cost reasons. The cheaper line were known as Scouts where locos and stock were smaller and ran on the cheaper 027 track whereas the normal Lionel Lines were O gauge 031 and larger track. They were also more expensive. Lionel accessories tended to be overly large but there was also a Standard gauge line so the accessories covered all three scales.

 

Brian.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Hello Kevin,

 

Your SR coach has what looks like Exley corridor connectors, certainly Exley style painted numbers and possibly ends, but, I dont remember them having separate roof vents. In both 00 and 0 they were pressed into the shell. In 00 the SR curved rain strip was always pressed in but the 0 gauge ones usually had wire through a hole at each end and a split pin in the middle. Your ends should be cast with some copper wire at the top going through the roof and bent to the outside and a piece each side of the buffer beam going through the solebar. These can break off if bent to remove a few times though. Therefore yours could be Exley with separate roof vents added.

 

Garry

[ed nantes]

Hello Kevin,

 

Your SR coach has what looks like Exley corridor connectors, certainly Exley style painted numbers and possibly ends, but, I dont remember them having separate roof vents. In both 00 and 0 they were pressed into the shell. In 00 the SR curved rain strip was always pressed in but the 0 gauge ones usually had wire through a hole at each end and a split pin in the middle. Your ends should be cast with some copper wire at the top going through the roof and bent to the outside and a piece each side of the buffer beam going through the solebar. These can break off if bent to remove a few times though. Therefore yours could be Exley with separate roof vents added.

 

Garry

Yes , it looks like early Exley  Which early on did have separate vents. I have them on early some GWR bow ends. Personally i think the pressed in ones look more  subtle, and less like Dogs testicles as with the separately applied ones .

 The pressed in door handles are typically Exley. The early Exleys had sand cast aluminium ends which weren't as smooth and detailed a finish as the white metal post war version. But pre war didn't have the copper wire through the alloy sides  but a pin in the centre of the roof end and the wires underneath were folded over the edge of the bottom. here was a protrusion of the end underneath that the flooor attached to and had a screw through into the wood

 Exleys can usually be picked by being a one piece alloy wrapper with a tumble home and the chassis frame  incorporated

  Here's  apic of 2 similar exleys , pre war , one with  pressed vents the other with added on vents. I imagine this was allpart of an ongoing process of improvement.

[Nearholmer]

Gentlemen

 

Many thanks for the advice on the coach; Exley attribution now 90%+ certain, I think.

 

It is a really smooth runner, and usually forms one of the very short Imperial Airways Special trains, with a nice old wooden (Mills?) model of the Pullman "Grosvenor", and a luggage van.

 

Do need to re-fix the glazing on one side, though, because it persistently slips down in operation.

 

Kevin

[brianusa]

Hornby No.1 Special Pullman Set

 

 

Southwest has just taken off from SeaTac and is levelling off over a rather pointy and snowy Mt. Rainier. 

 

Brian.

[Il Grifone]

Those Pullmans are in rather better condition than the set I have!

[brianusa]

Hi Dave, the general condition of these on the market is pretty junky.  I suppose its to be expected for low end stuff, but I rather like them as the litho is excellent and all five make a nice train.

 

Brian.

[coronach]

I have inherited a collection of gauge 0 coarse scale rolling stock, including much pre-war stuff in varying condition and states of completeness; Hornby clockwork locos (e.g. compounds, hunts), 20 + Tinplate bogie Pullman coaches, wagons, some of unknown provenance and some of which have been 'improved', Edward Exley coaches and some more recent Triang Big Big Train coaches and wagons, and Lima stock including Mk1 and continental coaches , plus loads of clockwork motors. 

 

It all needs to go; I don't want to be fleeced, it would be good to see it go to someone who is interested in this sort of thing and I am loathe to send any of it for scrap.

 

The GOG executor service is only interested in auctioning high value items

 

Advice from anyone..... ?

Edited June 9, 2016 by coronach

[Nearholmer]

Coronach

 

There are dealers around who will give you a fair price for a collection such as this, if you want to avoid the challenges of selling item-by-item yourself, and if you PM me, I will recommend one.

 

Dealers seem to be able to offer 50-60% of what they will be able to sell-on for, which allows them to cover VAT, their operating costs, and make a sensible margin. You can get a pretty good idea of the "sell-on" prices are likely to be by looking at dealers websites and ebay, although the latter sometimes delivers inexplicably high sale-prices and 'bargains', so needs to be viewed with caution.

 

Condition is an absolutely massive factor in all this: so, something like a Hunt, which is sought-after, but no exactly rare, might vary in price by a factor of four or five, depending upon whether it is in need of a lot of restoration, or in excellent, running condition.

 

The other option for a large batch, such as you seem to have, is auction, and there are several specialist auction-houses who have regular sales of exactly this sort of thing. Prices at auction are, if anything, even harder to predict! A popular on-line auction service in this area is "Stop the Drop" ......... Its quite a neat compromise between dealer and ebay, and very popular with old train people.

 

Kevin

[ed nantes]

How about with the consent of the Moderators, photographing the items and illustrating here so we can make expressions of interest.  This would I accept be unusual but due to the unique nature of what is being offered I ask if as a 'one off' the Moderators would permit?

 

AS

Exley coaches  are always worth a reasonable price.  Price is dependent on condition , but also upon which model it is. Some such as LMS coaches are quite common, some other liveries not so.

 

 One could have a look on ebay under Exley, but look under ' sold item' as  some of them have been there asking quite stupid prices and have been there since cocky was an egg.

 

 It's only the ones that sell that give a true indication of market value.

[Golden Fleece 30]

Coronach, as others have suggested have a look around, but, understand as well as condition/livery it also depends on who is looking at the sites at the time whether it be Ebay or Auction house. Again as been mentioned earlier the model type can play a big part like a Kitchen Car is not as common as a full corridor etc. I collect 00 Exleys as that is all I run on my layout and one example is a mint WR sleeping car. I bought mine in mint condition, proper Exley boxed, for about £60 a few months ago with only a couple of bidders yet a couple of weeks ago one unboxed went for £197 with 18 bidders. At an auction house early this year I bought 4 mint, unused and boxed ones for £10 each as the only bidder yet other times watched them go for way over what I would be prepared to pay.

 

A couple of Ebay sellers, in the Midlands area and North West, are way over priced for even mint ones although theirs are not mint, just average to poor, as has also been mentioned by others. Without seeing yours, and as we all have different views on what is classed as good, mint etc, a starting price would probably be between 1/4 and 1/3 of some of theirs although with 0 gauge possibly up to about half may be a start.

 

At the end of the day you can never be sure a "dealer" does not buy so he can advertise it in 6 months time at twice what he paid you hoping for a bargain to turn into a profit.

 

Good luck anyway.

 

Garry

Edited June 12, 2016 by Golden Fleece 30

[Nearholmer]

"At the end of the day you can never be sure a "dealer" does not buy so he can advertise it in 6 months time at twice what he paid you hoping for a bargain to turn into a profit."

 

I think you can be pretty sure that is what they WILL do, because that is how they make a living ............. And, IMHO, if a dealer pays you 50-60% of what he sells-on for, he is acting reasonably.

 

Again, IMHO, the really strange dealers are the ones who price items way above what the market will bear, and then simply don't sell them ......... There are items nominally for sale today, which have been for sale for three or four years, with price-tags that are twice or more what the market will normally pay. Can anyone explain why a few dealers do this?

 

K

[Golden Fleece 30]

Nearholmer, I was implying a person pretending to be a collector and not specifically a dealer as they sometimes think if they say they want the item for their own use you will sell it even cheaper, a con merchant is what comes to mind. I have no issues with genuine dealers.

 

Regarding the way over pricing, to me it is pure greed and that is all. They try to trap the unwary or gullible people to make a huge profit. They know anyone with a little knowledge will not entertain their items. All I can think is they must have a lot of storage space available as some from the sellers I mentioned have had their Exleys for over 4 years at least. I laugh when they put "now with 10% off" which is still more than double it's worth.

 

Even some descriptions make me laugh with "as in original condition", since when were new coaches sold with scratches, minor dents and covered with dust? lol.

 

Garry

[Nearholmer]

I'd wondered if it was a ham-fisted attempt to kid people that the advertised prices are the "real" prices, thereby "pulling the market up", with no actual hope of selling at the stated prices, possibly with the items long-ago having been sold elsewhere.

 

When I first got re-interested, I almost believed some of these fantasy prices for while - no harm done, though, because I couldn't afford to pay them!

 

K

[Il Grifone]

omis

 

A couple of Ebay sellers, in the Midlands area and North West, are way over priced for even mint ones although theirs are not mint, just average to poor, as has also been mentioned by others. Without seeing yours, and as we all have different views on what is classed as good, mint etc, a starting price would probably be between 1/4 and 1/3 of some of theirs although with 0 gauge possibly up to about half may be a start.

 

omis

 

Garry

 

One of those two wouldn't be an enthusiast of cars from a long defunct American manufacturer by any chance? 

Edited June 12, 2016 by Il Grifone

[Golden Fleece 30]

I don't know David, but due to issues with the HRCA I will not name the sellers so cannot help you with your question. I can say both have extreamly overpriced Exleys in 00 and 0 gauge. One has very high hopes of a couple of repainted Dublo R1's along with Gaiety tanks as well as £22.00 for a badly put together Airfix railbus (unmotorised just basic kit with glue all over) and the other plenty of kits. Both are prone to odd mistakes in their adverts. I do like reading their descriptions though which gives me a laugh even if the items don't.

 

Garry

[coronach]

Thank you for your advice - it is helpful.  I will ponder a while.........

 

[Il Grifone]

I don't know David, but due to issues with the HRCA I will not name the sellers so cannot help you with your question. I can say both have extreamly overpriced Exleys in 00 and 0 gauge. One has very high hopes of a couple of repainted Dublo R1's along with Gaiety tanks as well as £22.00 for a badly put together Airfix railbus (unmotorised just basic kit with glue all over) and the other plenty of kits. Both are prone to odd mistakes in their adverts. I do like reading their descriptions though which gives me a laugh even if the items don't.

 

Garry

 

IIRC the railbus was £40 once upon a time....

[Robin Brasher]

Does this remind you of your first Hornby-Dublo train set with an N2 and some SD6 mineral wagons?

 

It is an Ace trains N2 on the Wessex Group of the Hornby Collectors Association's 0 gauge layout last Tuesday evening.