Bachmann Peppercorn A2

[benachie]

Alan

 

I think the rod in the picture of 60528 is to operate the front damper in the ashpan as it is connected to a bellcrank. The pipe was probably a water pipe from a valve in the cab to feed water from an injector into the ashpan to remove ash deposits during disposal. I will try and get confirmation, it's about 15 years since I last drove BP and I can't remember.

 

Mike

Mike,

On the A1s, the corresponding rod goes right forward to the motion so I don't think it has to do with the ashpan.

Alan

[t-b-g]

Had chance to speak with my friend tonight. Very interesting! We managed to disagree completely (nothing new there!). He was sure that all the boilers (Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn) had the same style covers and that they were eliptical in shape. I went through his extensive collection of photos and books and I am 100% sure that there are two patterns. The actual hole that the handle is located in is eliptical in each case, it is the surrounding flange that is different. Some have an almost circular flange, which is thicker at the top and bottom and thinner at the front and back. Some have an even width flange all the way round, so the whole thing appears oval. The ones with the nearly round flange seem to be an earlier type, often with lining around the flange, which accentuates the round appearance. This round type is the one carried by Blue Peter although I don't have the time or inclination to do a full research into whether it was always like this. The actual hole with the handle in it is eliptical in all cases but the flanges (and any lining) make them look different.

 

Now to the Bachmann model. It is quite clearly wrong in several aspects! On the RHS, the rear cover is noticably smaller than the front one (as far as I can tell they should be the same size), is too high up (compare with the handrail) and the two handles seem to slope downwards towards each other, when they should be level and in line. They also have a prominent oval lip around the covers (remembering Blue Peter has the type with an almost circular outside edge), whereas the real ones both have a very flat flange.

 

On the LHS, they have done a bit better! At least the two covers are approximately the same size and the handles are roughly in line with each other. The position and the shape are still wrong. The actual shape seems too pointy at the ends. Even the oval ones on the real thing have more of an even curve, like a circle flattened at top and bottom, rather than the rugby ball shape on the Bachmann firebox.

 

Now for the real shocker! The biggest amount that any part of this is wrong is probably no more than a millimetre. It would be possible to correct it with some careful scalpel work and some slivers of plasticard but I wouldn't want to risk spoiling the excellent paint job.

 

The quality of models being produced is so far ahead of what we had just a few years ago that to lose any sleep over something so insignificant ain't worth it! I had a helping hand in the review of the O4 in a recent Model Ralway Journal which included something along the lines of "If you don't like the model, go out and employ one of the tiny number of professional builders who could build you a better one and just add a nought onto the price tag, or better still, build one yourself".

[Harry Basset]

t-b-g

 

I agree with your final paragraph, for the money we have a pretty good Blue Peter from Bachmann. The one thing I can't abide is the wildly inaccurate angle of the slide bars, I am working on my BP to improve this.

 

Regarding your points about boiler access doors, I assume your mention of handles not being in line refers to the bridge pieces visible, these hold the doors to the boiler shell and are not handles so don't need to line up with each other. The holes are positioned to allow water jets and tools the best access to get scale and sediment out of the water spaces. Bachmann have worked with Blue Peter in its present display condition so the holes in the sheet metal cladding may be slightly distorted and may have given Bachmann the wrong impression of their shape, however they are just for a tidy appearance.

[benachie]

t-b-g and Harry Basset,

Many thanks for your research on these mudhole covers. It seems that I was not being entirely crazy. I shall probably sort this out on my BP when I add the mysterious pipe and rod at the base of the firebox which I feel cannot be omitted.

I'll do the same with 60528 when I give it the correct high tender front and re-ID it as "Pearl Diver" which I think was the only apple green A2 shedded in Scotland.

Alan

[Harry Basset]

Alan

 

I've e mailed an ex colleague about that pipe and rod. I suspect the rod is the linkage to operate the cylinder cocks. He has not yet replied I think he may be busy with Tornado at present, he is a travelling representative for 60163. All this debating is making me want to see BP again, a trip to Barrow Hill may be in the offing.

 

Mike

[Guest Max Stafford]

Did Pearl Diver have her double chimney in apple green? If not, I may consider Benachie's option too.

[bertiedog]

It's Bachmann's moulding at fault , the locking bar is on the wrong axis, but it seems the two sizes are correct from what I can see for this loco, whilst others had same sized mud holes.covers, and yes, it's always a elliptical, anything else and they simply would not work.

Stephen.

[bacon butty]

there's been so much on mud holes that not sure if anyone has fully explained why the shape etc. Mud hole are eliptical so you can remove the plug from the outside, you have either 1 or 2 clamp arms that when tight pull the cover plate from the inside of the boiler out so as to provide a water tight seal. To remove them you undo the clamp arms on the outside, push the plate in and turn 90 degrees and then pull out. As mentioned previous the clamp arms are not always straight it depends how concientious the fitter is who put them back after the boiler inspector has put his head in to have a look around.

When the boiler is fired up after these have been removed they will come slightly loose as the pressure of the water/steam pushes out and crushes the gasket, you then give them a final nip up.

The cover plate can be a little bit heavy as well... it can be a 2 man job putting the awkward things back!!

[benachie]

Max,

I believe that "Pearl Diver" got double chimney/MLS at the same time as the change to Brunswick green and was therefore the only apple green Scottish-shedded A2 (2/48-9/49 at 64B). All the others did not reach Scotland until they were in Brunswick green. So I guess that the tender front needs to be raised and the loco renumbered as E529 with the "E" above the number (same on buffer beam) and with new name.

Stephen,

Everyone agrees that the mudhole doors and the openings in which they fit are elliptical. It is the surrounding casing in the cladding that we are looking at - there is no reason for that to be oval.

Alan

[bertiedog]

Almost all the mudholes are surrounded with flush cladding, the cladding was cut to fit the cast surround,, but occasionally I have seen round cast surrounds to mudholes on traction engine and narrow gauge, but rarely on main line locos, I do boiler inspections on models and have studied full sized boilers quite a a bit. The only answer is a close examination of photos or surviving examples.

[Harry Basset]

My Blue Peter does not have the RA9 marking on its cab sides although Bachmanns original picture showed the cabside with the marking. Does anyone know of a source of route availability number decals?

[davidw]

Model master and Fox-Transfers do them. If you request one of the model Master cab side transfers then the RA9 is include. Fox do a separate sheet.

[Poor Old Bruce]

My Blue Peter does not have the RA9 marking on its cab sides although Bachmanns original picture showed the cabside with the marking. Does anyone know of a source of route availability number decals?

Blue Peter did not carry the 'RA9' marking in 1966.

[Poor Old Bruce]

Blue Peter did not carry the 'RA9' marking in 1966.

Sorry folks. Pressed to 'Add Reply' button too soon.

 

[Harry Basset]

Thanks davidw and Poor Old Bruce, I will check the Fox website, I must have missed that as I have the works plate and name plates from them. I am looking for 1992 condition. 1966 looks far too neglected, look at that sand spilt on the running plate.

[mattingleycustom]

Here are my first pictures of these loco's, still got a bit of work to do which in the main is a little light weathering. You will see the modified smokebox on Suger Palm & Velocity (one piece handrail) & as comes with BP on Happy Knight. New numbers & shedplates off course. They are done as running late 1961 early 1962.

Cheers

Ian H

(silverlink)

 

Can I ask where you get the etched nameplates and smokebox door numbers from?

 

Glenn

[silverlink]

Can I ask where you get the etched nameplates and smokebox door numbers from?

 

Glenn

Hi Glen, Most nameplates & smokebox door number can be obtained from 247 Developmaents. Tel no is 01484 840996 you need to speak to Gary Wells who will help you out. He has a website www.247developments.co.uk where you can check if he has what you want. If not you will get it from Modelmaster Decals in Scotland (Jim Grindley)just put it up in Google it should come up for you. Cabside numbers are Fox transfers, good luck with your conversion.

cheers

Ian

[mattingleycustom]

Thanks Ian, I am aware of the major etched nameplate manufacturers, I was just wondering who made those for your A2s.

I used Fox for Sun Chariot and Hornets Beauty, they are more expensive than the other manufacturers, but have the benefit of true Gill Sans typeface for the etched smokebox door number in stainless steel.

 

On the same subject, I received my Bachmann Peppercorn A2 'Blue Peter' model yesterday, coincidental with the arrival of the nameplates from Fox. Comparison of the etched plates supplied by Bachmann and the Fox versions with photos of those on the original, show the Fox version to be the most accurate.

 

Glenn

[silverlink]

I have it on good authority that the Bachmann A2 nameplates have been done by 247 which is the probable reason for them looking different to the Fox ones. I must say without doubt Fox plates are just brilliant but oh' the price!!! & when doing a few loco's how the price shows. I did order some transfers from Fox on line yesterday afternoon (Tues) & they were here this morning which takes some beating.

Cheers

Ian

p.s. for those coming to see us at Doncaster I have another addition to the A2 fleet with 60531'BAHRAM'with 61B Aberdeen shedplate see you there.

[sulzer27jd]

 

p.s. for those coming to see us at Doncaster I have another addition to the A2 fleet with 60531'BAHRAM'with 61B Aberdeen shedplate see you there.

 

Not sure of your time period but Bahram ran out of Ferryhill for some time with brown nameplates. That might make an interesting variation.

 

John

[silverlink]

Not sure of your time period but Bahram ran out of Ferryhill for some time with brown nameplates. That might make an interesting variation.

 

John

Thanks for info John, have just finished weathering so namplates look a bit brownish!!! Nameplate colours are a real headache, unless you have colour photo's of actual loco it's very difficult to know colour. Some loco's would have black one week & red the next or if Scottish blue or red or black or even brown!With my Haymarket Cross layout I have decided on period 1961 to late 1962 as that was the time I was spotting & have some photo's & of course fond memories of a brilliant time on British Railways.

Cheers

Ian

[Ian_T]

Loco's I have colour pics of with blue nameplates are 'William Whitelaw' 'Empire Of India' & 'Golden Plover' the last is one of my own photo's taken at York in the summer of 1961!

Cheers

Ian H

 

 

my Uncle used to own the nameplate of Golden Plover until he put it into auction in the late 1980's.....i wonder who has it now or if its been resold?

[silverlink]

my Uncle used to own the nameplate of Golden Plover until he put it into auction in the late 1980's.....i wonder who has it now or if its been resold?

Oh' to own an A4 nameplate! do you know how much he got for it ? today I would think you are looking at £55'000 - £60'000 based on Golden Fleece which recently reaching £55'000 at auction.

cheers

Ian

[Ian_T]

well it went in an auction i think he said about 1987 - it sold for £14000 which was a good return on the £900 he paid way back in the 70's

 

Incidentally he also owned the 60031 smoke box number (the rare one that had a straight on the 6 as opposed to the curl or vice versa!!!)along with the 64a and 65 shedplates. He got £1400 for those at the same acution which again was a good return on the £300 he paid for them - these 3 items were apparently resold on 29th January 2010 and sold for £8100 B)

 

My uncle also owned the Flying Fox nameplate of i think it was 60106 B)

 

he still has some stuff like a huge GWR brass crest, a number plate of a steam loco 47xxx (cant remember rest of numbers) a massive GWR wooden clock that I believe used to be at Bristol Station and various other shedplates including 68A i think it is, as well as another nameplate called "John" which he bought as its his name but i do not know what type of steam loco it came off

[G-BOAF]

Having had the body off the A2, I have analysed the cause of the sloping rear running plate. I will be interested to hear people's views on my analysis which explains both the sloping rear running plate and the loco/tender step height difference. Suffice to say it is not pretty, i.e. not particularly fixable without some quite major surgery....

 

There are two 'heights' of the rear running plate, the one at the bottom of the firebox S-curve(lets call it H), which appears to correspond to the Tender running plate height, and the height at the rear of the cab (lets call it H1).

 

The height H is held by the screws running into the bottom of the front of the firebox. When on the chassis, there is a small gab between the cartazzi frame and the running plate, of about 0.5mm. The drop towards H1 begins shortly to the rear of this. There is a slight gap between the rear of the firebox (where it meets the cab) and the running plate. Importantly, there is no gab between running plate and cab at this point, nor is there any gap between the inside of the top of the firebox and the 'rim' around the front of the cab.

 

Assuming that height H is correct, I would propose that the cab piece itself is TOO TALL. when screwed up, the force of the screws screwing into the firebox drive that part of the running plate home (achieving H), bending the casting between the S-curve and the cab.

 

I am assuming the height of the cab roof is OK - raising it up by 0.5mm or so would made the windows too high above the firebox, and roof too high relative to the safety valves. The only solution it would seem would be to remove some material from the bottom of the cab. This would then lose a row of rivets, and damage the paint. The rear of the body would then need packing by a similar amount.

 

What is interesting is that in all other respects, everything sits true. The main running plate has no fore-aft height difference. There are some small plastic washers supporting the rear of the body to achieve H1 (else body would lean back), so some design adjustment may have been made, but it appears to have been designed such that with this 'error' everything lines up. In other words, I would suggest that if a raw chassis casting was mated with a raw running plate (no boiler/cab etc), the running plate assembly would lean back on the chassis.

 

Ideally therefore, assuming H is correct, the cab should be shorter (by about 0.5mm), the cartazzi should be higher (by about 0.5mm) to increase the height of the rear of the chassis (thereby 'supporting' the firebox front), which would also +/- line up the loco and tender steps.

 

This may be a legacy of using the A1 cab, but it suprises me that a) this wasn't picked up at the CAD stage, and B) everything seems to be true in other, either by accident or forced design. If reason b, this would indicate reason 'a' was noted, but bodged rather than corrected!.

 

If people feel photos or diagrams may help, I will post if I have a moment.

 

Feedback on this analysis, and alternative analysis welcomed.

 

p.s. Not the first time Bachmann have had cab problems, Every 8750 pannier body I have has the cab distorting the plastic running plate. Easily corrected by removing material from inside the firebox (allowing more space for the rim on the front of the cab). It really is a fractional amount of material (despite leading to a 1mm bend in running plate), and the running plate springs back when cab is removed.