Bachmann Peppercorn A2

[John Tomlinson]

Apologies for re-opening this thread, but I have just bought a "Happy Knight" from Hattons, and have a question for the many of you who have gone before.

 

That the model is excellent, and at £99 excellent value in 2014 appears to be something most would agree on. However this particular version comes with the electric lights fitted, and photographic evidence suggests they were removed on 60533 fairly early on in the '50s, certainly before the late crest on the tender was applied. Setting the electric lights aside, the late crest tender, the pattern of chimney and one piece smokebox handrail suggest the model being as the loco ran in the period 1958 - 1961. This means the electric lights really need to go, and I wonder if anyone else has managed this without damage - the glue appears to be very strong on mine when I press from below! If I've missed something and am barking up the wrong tree I'd be very pleased to be corrected before surgery! I think I need to fit some semblance of an AWS plate as well for this period.

 

I'd be tempted to leave the tender as it is - I haven't found a picture showing whether the light fittings here were also removed, and to do so on the model would court a lot of damage - in my hands anyway - to the lovely finish and rivet detail.

 

Many thanks,  John.

[31A]

Oh dear, John!  Nobody seems to have an answer for this and neither do I'm afraid, but your post rang a bell in my subconscious, and a pang of guilty conscience!

 

Some time ago, I discovered the same as you, by looking through the book 'LNER Pacifics in Colour' by Derek Penny, which includes a picture of 'Happy Knight' without electric lamps (p77).  The caption to the picture is undated, but shows an up express south of Retford; the loco has the late crest on the tender, and the train is about 50/50 crimson & cream / maroon coaches.

 

Anyway, I've so far 'turned a blind eye' to this discrepancy as I decided that to remove the electric lighting would be 'too difficult'.  Not only would you have to remove the lamps from the front buffer beam and smokebox door, but you'd also need to remove the steam generator from behind the right hand (fireman's side) smoke deflector.  I expect this is a separate item but how easy it would be to remove it without damaging the smoke deflector I didn't fancy trying to find out!  On the tender rear, the lamps look as though they might be separate mouldings but how easily they'd come off might depend on how much glue's been used.  The vertical piece of conduit leading to the upper lamp is definitely a separate part and should come away easily, but the horizontal conduit joining the outer lamps appears to be part of the tender moulding.  In any case, attempting to remove any of that lot would seriously risk damaging the paintwork on the tender back.

 

And yes, the photo does show an AWS plate beneath the front buffer beam, which lead to the conclusion that there should also be a battery box somewhere; usually this was fixed to the driver's side cab steps on these locos.

 

It would be easier to alter the BR crest to the early type, but the later type suits the period of my layout better!

[John Tomlinson]

Many thanks for the reply, 31A - I'm glad that I haven't gone off into flights of fantasy, and someone else has noted the inconsistency!

 

I did have a fiddle with the loco yesterday afternoon, and in a fit of wild adventure ended up dismantling all of the body, which separated the boiler, the cab and the running plate - the latter has the smoke deflectors glued firmly in place. It is possible then to remove the generator gubbins without doing damage - I drilled a bit from below and the levered underneath and behind with a screwdriver. This leaves a hole which I shall cover with a thin piece of black plasticard. 

 

The lamps seem very secure, and I wanted really to keep them as the electric lights were boxes apparently screwed to backing plates on the long lamp irons, the side handles on the outer ones remained after lamp removal and I didn't fancy trying to make something so fiddly myself. I found that using a square blade in an Expo knife, and paring small slivers on a downward stroke, it was possible to slowly cut the boxes away, to leave a flat lamp iron and backing plate. By slipping a thin piece of fret waste under the lamp but above the running plate you can avoid damage to the latter. I lightly sanded the end result to give a dull but smooth surface.

 

With the boiler dismantled from everything else, its easier to free the smokebox end moulding, which is glued in, and carefully cut away and sand the electric lamp on the rim. There is inevitably some blemish to the finish, but by doing a bit at a time I've kept this to minimum, just a bit of dullness on the sanded black plastic.

 

I haven't yet put it all back together - lets hope there aren't any bits left over! Nor have I investigated the tender rear, but in the light of your very helpful advice will do so and decide if its worth risking!

 

On a separate subject I noted that as with the A1, the setting of the front bogie is close to lifting the front drivers off the track. This is because of the long moulded front coupling mount that goes back to the bogie pivot, and prevents the bogie from lifting enough to allow the front drivers to reach the track. To dismantle the bogie pivot you need to undo the keeper plate for the driving wheels, and access a wholly unnecessary double ended screw, for which you then need three or four hands! The black plastic mount can then be removed and the front bogie springs quite happily without interfering with the drivers.

 

 

Many thanks,   John.

[railroadbill]

Hi John,

By  a stroke of luck I've found a picture of Happy Knight in "Colour of steam The LNER Pacifics"  which was published by Atlantic in 1985 and written by P N Townend.

 

Anyway, there is a picture of 60533 ex works at Doncaster in May 1956. It's a 3/4 view from the front right of the engine, ie the firemans side where the steam generator would be..  

 

Obviously has the early crest but doesn't have either the steam generator or the electric lamps fitted. 

 

While the front buffer beam is partly blocked by another engine, it does look as if there is an aws protecting plate behind the front coupling.

 

Another point is that the double chimney is the early type with a thin beading round the top rather than the "flared" top they had later.

 

 Good luck with your modifications.

 

Hope this helps.

[micklner]

All of the rear lighting is removable, but it would need to be repainted as you will have glue marks and holes to fill.

[70E]

Would Happy Knight convert to Blue Peter? If I renumber and alter the smoke box door handles is that sufficient or are there other detail differences I should be aware of?

[John Tomlinson]

All of the rear lighting is removable, but it would need to be repainted as you will have glue marks and holes to fill.

Thanks for the series of helpful comments. I had another session this afternoon, and thankfully the loco is reassembled. Everything still fits nicely without gaps, and there is now some additional weight in the smokebox/ front boiler and some detail bits added.

 

Turning to the tender, the rear lights and vertical conduit were removed without damage after scraping the inside of the tender to remove glue and then pressing the parts from the inside. I found a photo of another loco in the class awaiting scrapping showed the tender rear, and as on the front of the loco it appears that the electric lights were screwed or bolted onto backing plates that formed part of the lamp irons. Using a chisel blade I  pared the box moulding away and then sanded smooth to give lamp irons with a semblance of the backing plate that could then be re-fitted to the tender, so there are no visible holes, although I'll have to touch in the sanded area with green as the base plastic is black. The central vertical conduit is also a separate moulding and was removed, however the horizontal one above the buffer beam appears to be part of the tender moulding itself and I've decided to leave this in situ for fear of making a mess.

 

I'll try to take some pictures when I'm finally done to show how this looks.

 

John.

Edited April 14, 2014 by John Tomlinson

[John Tomlinson]

Would Happy Knight convert to Blue Peter? If I renumber and alter the smoke box door handles is that sufficient or are there other detail differences I should be aware of?

I'll have a look at some references and post back. The main thing is whether 60532 has the multi valve regulator as fitted to 60533 and double chimney, which I don't know off the top of my head.

 

John.

[Strathyre]

I'll have a look at some references and post back. The main thing is whether 60532 has the multi valve regulator as fitted to 60533 and double chimney, which I don't know off the top of my head.

 

John.

it did

[John Tomlinson]

Would Happy Knight convert to Blue Peter? If I renumber and alter the smoke box door handles is that sufficient or are there other detail differences I should be aware of?

Looks a good plan. If you're happy with it before the Spring 1961 works visit you can keep the single smokebox door handrail, just need a transfer to 61B - Ferryhill - for the shedplate. The electric lights were kept on this one, but you could add the AWS guardplate to the bufferbeam as well to be accurate.

 

John.

Edited April 15, 2014 by John Tomlinson

[70E]

Many thanks John

[G-BOAF]

Casually browsing the internet, and I started comparing the latest releases of the late crest A2, Pearl Driver, with the previous iteration, Happy Knight. I actually purchased the latter to circumvent the howlers (colour, cab droop) with the original 60532 Blue Peter.

However, I now notice that Pearl Driver exhibits a slide backwards in production quality, namely the cab droop has returned, and the running board lining, rather than running neatly along the lower edge, is somewhere in the middle.

Is this evidence of a complete staff turnover at the Kader factory, and someone lost the notes of original production 'tweaks'? Shame

 

Happy Knight

https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/31-528_32911_Qty1_1.jpg

 

Pearl Driver (to say nothing of the suspect handrail)

https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/31-528A_3092877_Qty1_1.JPG

[Bon Accord]

Casually browsing the internet, and I started comparing the latest releases of the late crest A2, Pearl Driver, with the previous iteration, Happy Knight. I actually purchased the latter to circumvent the howlers (colour, cab droop) with the original 60532 Blue Peter.

However, I now notice that Pearl Driver exhibits a slide backwards in production quality, namely the cab droop has returned, and the running board lining, rather than running neatly along the lower edge, is somewhere in the middle.

Is this evidence of a complete staff turnover at the Kader factory, and someone lost the notes of original production 'tweaks'? Shame

 

Happy Knight

https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/31-528_32911_Qty1_1.jpg

 

Pearl Driver (to say nothing of the suspect handrail)

https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/31-528A_3092877_Qty1_1.JPG

 

I'd concur, my Pearl Diver has the same faults.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 The wonkiness at least is correctable with patience. Usual acknowledgement that 'we shouldn't have to', but with my practical 'cheap and dirty' hat on it is an easier choice by far than building a kit for those like me wanting a loco to run on the layout pulling trains, and since it has to come apart anyway to get enough weight in for the tractive mightiness....

Is this evidence of a complete staff turnover at the Kader factory, and someone lost the notes of original production 'tweaks'? Shame...

 

 

 It is no secret at all that annual staff turnover in assembly work runs at circa 30% in China. (That would have been enough to get me to quit from assembly management had we had that in the UK: 7-8% annual churn was hard enough to cope with, those young women on electronics assembly, they would fall pregnant!)

[John Tomlinson]

Interesting in any case there's been another release of the A2, as examples come up regularly on Ebay, and seem to go for quite reasonable (by today's standards) prices.

 

John.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

So long as Bach's retailers can shift the new ones, the s/h activity doesn't matter. With only the very dated, mechanically flaky, (and few produced at that) Trix A2 as a RTR alternative, Bachmann are shooting at an open goal in offering a model of the most attractive of all the post WWII (just my opinion) constructed UK pacifics.

 

How many of the 15 have they offered now? Without checking up my recollection is 60525/8/9/32/3/4/6/7, total of 8 of the class: and so roughly a release per year averaged out since introduction. Bet they are saving the ultra funky names of the 60538/9 pair;  'Bronzino' and 'Velocity' until last...

[micklner]

So long as Bach's retailers can shift the new ones, the s/h activity doesn't matter. With only the very dated, mechanically flaky, (and few produced at that) Trix A2 as a RTR alternative, Bachmann are shooting at an open goal in offering a model of the most attractive of all the post WWII (just my opinion) constructed UK pacifics.

 

How many of the 15 have they offered now? Without checking up my recollection is 60525/8/9/32/3/4/6/7, total of 8 of the class: and so roughly a release per year averaged out since introduction. Bet they are saving the ultra funky names of the 60538/9 pair;  'Bronzino' and 'Velocity' until last...

 

Plus 526

[sirwilliamfrs]

So long as Bach's retailers can shift the new ones, the s/h activity doesn't matter. With only the very dated, mechanically flaky, (and few produced at that) Trix A2 as a RTR alternative, Bachmann are shooting at an open goal in offering a model of the most attractive of all the post WWII (just my opinion) constructed UK pacifics.

 

How many of the 15 have they offered now? Without checking up my recollection is 60525/8/9/32/3/4/6/7, total of 8 of the class: and so roughly a release per year averaged out since introduction. Bet they are saving the ultra funky names of the 60538/9 pair;  'Bronzino' and 'Velocity' until last...

60539 Bronzino would be the "odd one out" as it had a double chimney and Kylchap double blast pipe from new but no multiple-valve regulator. I would imagine Bachmann's tooling of the standard boiler could be fitted with a double chimney fairly simply. Bronzino was often said to be the best A2 for the reasons given, therefore an excellent subject for a model.

[No Decorum]

So long as Bach's retailers can shift the new ones, the s/h activity doesn't matter. With only the very dated, mechanically flaky, (and few produced at that) Trix A2 as a RTR alternative, Bachmann are shooting at an open goal in offering a model of the most attractive of all the post WWII (just my opinion) constructed UK pacifics.

 

How many of the 15 have they offered now? Without checking up my recollection is 60525/8/9/32/3/4/6/7, total of 8 of the class: and so roughly a release per year averaged out since introduction. Bet they are saving the ultra funky names of the 60538/9 pair;  'Bronzino' and 'Velocity' until last...

Not just your opinion. Especially if they’re in LNER green with black, white and red lining. Pep’s A1s are very attractive too.

[Silver Sidelines]

Some of these latest offers may not be all they seem.  I attach a picture of a Brand New model of Pearl Diver received last week and now returned and refunded.

 

Brand New Pearl Diver

 

I am reluctant to point the finger at any particular retailer because I received my money back but I do wonder at the mentality that posts out obviously faulty goods.

 

Ray

[davidw]

Some of these latest offers may not be all they seem. I attach a picture of a Brand New model of Pearl Diver received last week and now returned and refunded.

 

Brand New Pearl Diver

 

I am reluctant to point the finger at any particular retailer because I received my money back but I do wonder at the mentality that posts out obviously faulty goods.

 

Ray

What is wrong with it other than a tired box?

[Hilux5972]

A handrail on the smoke deflector, which can easily be reattached. That's all I can see visually. Maybe more?

[Brit70053]

It might just be the photo, but I'm struggling to locate a chimney on that model ?

[Silver Sidelines]

I did not remove the model from the blue box - so yes a loose handrail on the smoke deflector that can be reattached.  The visible boiler handrail was also distorted - not quite so easily corrected.  Would it sell on eBay for anything like its purchase price?  I doubt very much given the condition of the box.

 

Ray

[Ian Hargrave]

What Ray is saying.....quite clearly....is that it should not have been posted in this condition.I don't think anyone would disagree with that,surely ?