Martin's modifications - tales from the dining room table, blue era locos, Lots of Mark 2s Airfix conversions

[Grizz]

Messing around with a pile of spare Bachmann MK2F TSO bodies on a bunch of spare Airfix MK2D under frames, with doctored kit built Replica B4s, 36-034 Bachmann turned wheels and eventually retracted white metal buffers fitted. The seating inside is made from a bunch of spare Airfix MK2D BSO interiors, cut and shut end on. Just needs a slight mod to reduce the size of the loo, centralise the door, and add an extra seat. Plan was to get some reasonable MK2Es in Intercity livery, from some of the leftovers and a few new bits and bobs. Not sure how much mods I’ll need to do to the under frames? 
 

 

[Grizz]

It is fair to say that Rule 1 is firmly in place on my railway and always will be. However having grown up with corporate BR Blue and started work just before we embraced sectorisation, I have a soft spot for loco hauled trains particularly with MK2 coaches. I spose living in the Deep South of East Sussex the daily Intercity loco hauled trains from Brighton to such exotic locations as Glasgow, Derby, Manchester Piccadilly and Wolverhampton were an escape from the hum drum short haul to Victoria and back.

 

Then of course there was the Gatwick express with it’s MK2 stock….with the usual Southern Region practice of make do push pull. I’ve yet to get around to modelling a full set, but I would like to, maybe converting some gubbins from a Bachmann DBSO to make it DCC with all the bells and whistles. 
 

But in the mean time back to the latest project, this is the seating area of the next four conversions / mods. As can be seen I still need to make the loo smaller, centralise the door and add the extra seat.
 

But my big question is….these are spose to be MK2Es TSOs before ‘Intercity Swallow’….so what colour should the seats / tables be please?????? Also externally do the roofs of MK2Es and MK2Fs have the same or similar roof detail? 
 

 

These are the modifications to the Replica Railways B4s. The one at the back being the original and left to right are the stages of conversion.
 

 

 

The ones with the white plastic inserts are a batch for RTR Bachmann MK1 coaches but I’m using them for a pattern for now. 

 

[MJI]

Guessing black table tops and blue seats

[MJI]

Latest pair out of the works

 

2E TSO for WR rake 2

2C BSO for WR rake 1

 

Still need to sort couplings for rake 1, going to put magnets on the Keen system

 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by MJI

[Grizz]

11 minutes ago, MJI said:

Guessing black table tops and blue seats

Many thanks MJI….👍
Soon as I’ve finished the interior conversions I’ll smash them into the paint shop for black table tops and blue seats. 
 

First one done. 

[MJI]

24 minutes ago, Grizz said:

Many thanks MJI….👍
Soon as I’ve finished the interior conversions I’ll smash them into the paint shop for black table tops and blue seats. 
 

First one done. 

 

To be honest they are not that easy to see, I can remember fawn in ends where as 2B 2C 2D is red.

 

2C 2D wood panelled 2E beige panneling

[BernardTPM]

2 hours ago, Grizz said:

But my big question is….these are spose to be MK2Es TSOs before ‘Intercity Swallow’….so what colour should the seats / tables be please?????? Also externally do the roofs of MK2Es and MK2Fs have the same or similar roof detail?

The interiors of the Mk.2e were 'standard' Mk.2 style: the blue moquette, black 'coffin' table tops, edged with wood. The roof patterns on Mk.2d and 2e were the same. The Mk.2f featured a revised air-conditioning system so have a different pattern. Their interiors were also different featurting a textured, off-white laminate in place of light wood for the internal sidewalls and Mk.3 style seats in the main (some TSOs still had Mk.2 pattern seats).

[Grizz]

Many thanks for all your help chaps. It has been quite a while since I’ve travelled on a MK2 of any sort. It is funny how your mind plays tricks on you as you get older. I do remember red seats on what I thought were MK2Fs, out of Euston up to Glasgow in the very early 1990s. 
 

In the meantime I’ve found this excellent site that defo has an interior photo of a MK2E TSO.
 

https://coaches-library.weebly.com/mk2e---tso.html

 

Brilliant photos…I can see the roof detail of a suitable IC liveried coach, so don’t think I’ve much work to do on that score. 

 

But my next question would be that the interior photo is of a post privatisation MK2E, and although the seats are indeed blue and table tops black….were the glass partitions mid way down the coach original? Also I seem to remember that the internal ends doors were mostly glass? …or is that just this old mind playing tricks on me again…..perhaps that was the MK2Fs? 

[MJI]

40 minutes ago, Grizz said:

Many thanks for all your help chaps. It has been quite a while since I’ve travelled on a MK2 of any sort. It is funny how your mind plays tricks on you as you get older. I do remember red seats on what I thought were MK2Fs, out of Euston up to Glasgow in the very early 1990s. 
 

In the meantime I’ve found this excellent site that defo has an interior photo of a MK2E TSO.
 

https://coaches-library.weebly.com/mk2e---tso.html

 

Brilliant photos…I can see the roof detail of a suitable IC liveried coach, so don’t think I’ve much work to do on that score. 

 

But my next question would be that the interior photo is of a post privatisation MK2E, and although the seats are indeed blue and table tops black….were the glass partitions mid way down the coach original? Also I seem to remember that the internal ends doors were mostly glass? …or is that just this old mind playing tricks on me again…..perhaps that was the MK2Fs? 

 

They were, due to smoking needing to be kept away from people, Also why I prefered near the ends.

[BernardTPM]

8 hours ago, Grizz said:

In the meantime I’ve found this excellent site that defo has an interior photo of a MK2E TSO.

https://coaches-library.weebly.com/mk2e---tso.html

Brilliant photos…I can see the roof detail of a suitable IC liveried coach, so don’t think I’ve much work to do on that score.

But my next question would be that the interior photo is of a post privatisation MK2E, and although the seats are indeed blue and table tops black….were the glass partitions mid way down the coach original? Also I seem to remember that the internal ends doors were mostly glass? …or is that just this old mind playing tricks on me again…..perhaps that was the MK2Fs? 

Apart from the different moquette 5777's interior is largely original though the veneer on the sides has darkened after many coats of varnish. The headrests were the blue colour, not the purple that's on some. The partition is correct.

End doors would have changed between Mk.2d and Mk.2e when the toilets were altered so that TSOs could have 64 seats again instead of 62. The earlier arrangement (Mk.2b, c & d) is shown here. I will have to see if I can find anything in my old Modern Railways.

[MJI]

Got a little more tidying to do on a messed up door window.

 

But we have filled on 2D toilet and new 2E toilet.

 

This is an early 2E.

 

 

 

So annoying i started a late 2E door conversion.

 

Will have to work out required mods for the GUV as well.

 

I will check after if i have enough left for a 4th set.

 

Likely to end up with a model of every WR 2D BFK

[MJI]

Start on a 2E FO

 

Doors done,  hole drilled, frames hacked off ready for sanding, started relieving the apertures for glazing from behind.

 

 

Repair where  door bang removal was a bit lumpy.

 

[MJI]

I am going to use some Ebay magnets to modify Keen cam couplers on WR 1.

 

This is

2C BSO

2D TSOT

2F FO

2F FO

2E TSO

2E TSO

2D BFK

2E TSO

 

One 2D BSO supplied the BFK and half a 2E TSO, other half in WR 2 BFK

Edited December 29, 2023 by MJI

[45125]

On 28/12/2023 at 15:18, BernardTPM said:

The interiors of the Mk.2e were 'standard' Mk.2 style: the blue moquette, black 'coffin' table tops, edged with wood. The roof patterns on Mk.2d and 2e were the same. The Mk.2f featured a revised air-conditioning system so have a different pattern. Their interiors were also different featurting a textured, off-white laminate in place of light wood for the internal sidewalls and Mk.3 style seats in the main (some TSOs still had Mk.2 pattern seats).

The roof pattern for the 2D,E and F are the same. The D and E have Stones equipment (with the odd exception. The F have Temperature equipment ( with odd exception). The differences are on the underside, stones have two fans (one on a brake vehicle) on the condenser, Temperature have one large fan on the condenser.                                                                                                                                                               

 

There are detail differences on the underside between D, E an F variants like some of the equipment boxes, the compressor on temperature vehicles is boxed in, the 2D M/A control box has an under slung box on it which the other variants don't have.

 

Al Taylor

[The Evil Bus Driver]

On 28/12/2023 at 13:09, Grizz said:

It is fair to say that Rule 1 is firmly in place on my railway and always will be. However having grown up with corporate BR Blue and started work just before we embraced sectorisation, I have a soft spot for loco hauled trains particularly with MK2 coaches. I spose living in the Deep South of East Sussex the daily Intercity loco hauled trains from Brighton to such exotic locations as Glasgow, Derby, Manchester Piccadilly and Wolverhampton were an escape from the hum drum short haul to Victoria and back.

 

Then of course there was the Gatwick express with it’s MK2 stock….with the usual Southern Region practice of make do push pull. I’ve yet to get around to modelling a full set, but I would like to, maybe converting some gubbins from a Bachmann DBSO to make it DCC with all the bells and whistles. 
 

But in the mean time back to the latest project, this is the seating area of the next four conversions / mods. As can be seen I still need to make the loo smaller, centralise the door and add the extra seat.
 

But my big question is….these are spose to be MK2Es TSOs before ‘Intercity Swallow’….so what colour should the seats / tables be please?????? Also externally do the roofs of MK2Es and MK2Fs have the same or similar roof detail? 
 

 

These are the modifications to the Replica Railways B4s. The one at the back being the original and left to right are the stages of conversion.
 

 

 

The ones with the white plastic inserts are a batch for RTR Bachmann MK1 coaches but I’m using them for a pattern for now. 

 

Deepest East Sussex. Sounds pretty dark.

 

To be fair I once took a ride on the Sussex Scot. Brighton to Reading via Olympia then a Thames Turbo to Didcot for the railway centre. The second time I went via Guildford on the Gatwick to Reading and managed to bag a 47 + mk2s from there to Didcot. Happy days. 

 

I grew up in Shoreham-by-Sea so within earshot of the West Coast way line. Back in the 80s there was a good mix of stuff going through,  the 33 and 5 mk1s to Cardiff or the 47 and mk2s to Plymouth, the odd engineering train now and then behind either a 33 or 73. The two signal boxes at Shoreham up til 85. 

[BernardTPM]

On 29/12/2023 at 20:24, 45125 said:

The roof pattern for the 2D,E and F are the same.

Sorry, the Mk.2F roofs are different to the Mk.2D. That is why the ex-Airfix Mk.2D TSO has a different arangement to the Bachmann Mk.2F TSO. Both are correct for what they are.

 

 

With Mk.2E the situation is less clear cut. Some do seem to have the Mk.2D style pattern, but some TSOs; certainly the 1972-73 built ones (5859-5907) have the Mk.2F arrangement; probably the FOs, also built 1972-73 (3221-3275) though there the difference is less obvious since they lack the staggered pattern that's on the TSO. Since various batches of the Mk.2E were built with both original deeper and later shallower door windows I thought the roof pattern may match, but I would need to do a more extensive survey to prove or disprove that. Most online photos are Mk.2F so research will involve digging out old books and magazines.

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by BernardTPM

[45125]

2 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Sorry, the Mk.2F roofs are different to the Mk.2D. That is why the ex-Airfix Mk.2D TSO has a different arangement to the Bachmann Mk.2F TSO. Both are correct for what they are.

 

 

With Mk.2E the situation is less clear cut. Some do seem to have the Mk.2D style pattern, but some TSOs; certainly the 1972-73 built ones (5859-5907) have the Mk.2F arrangement; probably the FOs, also built 1972-73 (3221-3275) though there the difference is less obvious since they lack the staggered pattern that's on the TSO. Since various batches of the Mk.2E were built with both original deeper and later shallower door windows I thought the roof pattern may match, but I would need to do a more extensive survey to prove or disprove that. Most online photos are Mk.2F so research will involve digging out old books and magazines.

 

I wasn't talking about the ventilators of the hot water expansion vents. As with the variety of vehicles this alters depending on type.

 

[Grizz]

Little more progress with the MK2E interior conversions. 
Actually I’ve quite enjoyed it, once I got the process straight. The buffer headstocks are probs a bit thick but I needed it told hold the buffers securely and once they are painted it won’t notice. I’ve decided that including the glass partitions half way down the coach is a bit too much agg. 
 

I’ve just ordered another 8 Bachmann IC liveried TSO bodies. Only problem now is that I only have one spare Airfix MK2D under frame left and no more BSO or TSO seating units. I have got 4 Hornby MK2E under frames but they are more of a pain to fit to the Bachmann bodies. So I’ll probably have to see what eBay chucks up over the next couple of months. 
 

 

 

[Grizz]

Next two candidates. The one at the back is an Airfix TSO and will probs be a Scotrail MK2D but it has a Hornby MK2E chassis and interior. It also needs to have modified Replica B4s fitted as per the others. 
 

The one at the front is a cut and shut from the two passenger ends of two Airfix BSOs, making a MK2E. The only thing is, looking at the roof drawings kindly supplied earlier in the thread, I think I need to file off one of the roof tanks? If so…any idea which one, when compared with the under frame? Sorry if that seems an obvious question. 
 

 

The remains of the parcel / guards brake ends of the two BSOs didn’t go to waste, they have been cut and shut together to form a fictional MK2D/E/F full brake. It needs a bit more filler and then a spray up into either blue and grey or IC. It’ll modified B5s. 

[BernardTPM]

The panel to the right is surplus when looking at the side with the two fans. See top picture here.

[Grizz]

Next project, a further batch of 8 x Intercity Red Stripe MK2Es TSOs, made up from Bachmann MK2F bodies and the under frames from Airfix MK2D FOs. It will take some time to do as I’ll have to cut the FO seating layouts apart, add a set of seats to each to match the TSO layout and cut the toilet area around to suit. As previously it’ll be Replica bogies, with Bachmann 34-034 turned brass wheels etc. 
 

 

The FO bodies won’t go to waste as I plan to either build a ‘What Might Have Been’ set of MK2D sleeping coaches or change them into a reclassified standard class rake.

 

The IC DBSO could possibly end up as a MK2 DEMU….but that is for another day. 

[MJI]

I worked out i have aquired at least 30 Airfix 2Ds.

 

 

[dale159]

6 hours ago, Grizz said:

Airfix MK2D FOs................... Replica bogies

 

Hi,

 

Very nice work.

 

One question - what happens to the Airfix bogies?  Having converted a load of mine to Kadee No'5s stuck to the underside of the chassis, I cut all the couplings off flush at the end of the bogie. This is proving a bit of a headache now I'd like to convert them to Hunt Couplings and been keeping an eye out in various places for the odd donor coach coming up for replacements with couplings original in tact, not easy when I'm looking to replace about 30-35 coaches worth!

 

Dale

[griffgriff]

What to do with Airfix B4s?
 

…. If you take a close look at the damper it’s quite bulky and the rod is squared off. If you flatten the front to make a flat face, add some plastic to beef up the spring plank then it has more than a passing resemblance to a B5. Handy for any heavy mk1 conversions you might be thinking about.

[Grizz]

I’ve just been back on Replica Railways web site to have another look.
 

For anyone who hasn’t seen it they make some superb bits and bobs for those of us who love hacking and cutting and shutting etc. 
 

http://www.replicarailways.co.uk/mainsep1/menuaccess

 

Over the years I’ve bought loads of bits and bobs from them. The staff have been so friendly and helpful every time I’ve called them. One day I plan to take a trundle up to Swindon to visit them in person, but for now it’ll have to be over the phone. 
 

Their B4 and B5 bogies are a really good representation of the real thing, especially for the money. I’m down to my last pair of B4s, so I’ve got to put in an order. 
 

 

In the meantime I’ve been chopping up more FO seating units and turning them into TSO seating units for the Bachmann TSO bodies. The original Airfix FO unit is in the foreground. With a complete one mounted on an Airfix under frame with modified Replica B4s. I’ve managed to prep another three TSO seating units, with one glued onto the 1.5mm styrene support strip. This means that the original metal strip weight has to be removed, although as these are all second hand most had already been removed by the previous owner. I still need to build the toilet cubicles on opposite side suitable for a MK2E. 
 

 

To get the Bachmann MK2F bodies to fit the Airfix underframe I’ve had to carefully remove the original securing lugs from the glazing. There are four on each side and it is slow and steady work with a razor saw, as it is very easy to catch to bottom of the body with the back end of the saw. Once removed the underframe sides need to be filed down flat to remove the slightly odd shape of the original, but it only takes a few minutes.