BEIJIAO - a large Chinese HO exhibition layout set in the 21st century

[F-UnitMad]

3 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

at an exhibition viewers want constant  ACTION and shunting moves involving that freight shed loop was going to slow down the action on the bi-directional.

I must admit that one of my pet hates at a Show (& I don't have many) is seeing goods yards & facilities that don't get shunted at all during the show. Obviously it's big layouts that happens on, too. 

Seems a waste to me, but I would also be concerned that if someone happened to pass the layout during a moment when nothing was moving on the main lines, but just saw this rake of cars & stationary loco, then by sheer chance managed to pass it again later & all they saw was the same rake of cars & loco, it could be very easy not just to write-off the layout as "something Foreign" - a big enough issue itself - but also as a 'boring' layout where nothing moves, despite your team's best efforts to the contrary.?

Just my 2p. Worth zip, really. 😉

[luke_stevens]

1 hour ago, F-UnitMad said:

I must admit that one of my pet hates at a Show (& I don't have many) is seeing goods yards & facilities that don't get shunted at all during the show. Obviously it's big layouts that happens on, too. 

Seems a waste to me, but I would also be concerned that if someone happened to pass the layout during a moment when nothing was moving on the main lines, but just saw this rake of cars & stationary loco, then by sheer chance managed to pass it again later & all they saw was the same rake of cars & loco, it could be very easy not just to write-off the layout as "something Foreign" - a big enough issue itself - but also as a 'boring' layout where nothing moves, despite your team's best efforts to the contrary.?

Just my 2p. Worth zip, really. 😉

 

Paul and the team work really hard to ensure there is always something going on. There will be train on the up China Main, the down China Main, the bi-directional and a lot of stuff happening on the industrial. It is very rare to not have anything entering, leavening or on the layout. When thta does happen is usually because there is an "issue" and then the viewers can see the operating team getting very frustrated and talking to each other loudly, using old Anglo-Saxon language... But this happens less and less now :) There are also lots of cameo's that Paul has built to keep the viewer interest.

 

Luke

[TEAMYAKIMA]

2 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

I must admit that one of my pet hates at a Show (& I don't have many) is seeing goods yards & facilities that don't get shunted at all during the show. Obviously it's big layouts that happens on, too. Seems a waste to me, but I would also be concerned that if someone happened to pass the layout during a moment when nothing was moving on the main lines, but just saw this rake of cars & stationary loco, then by sheer chance managed to pass it again later & all they saw was the same rake of cars & loco, it could be very easy not just to write-off the layout as "something Foreign" - a big enough issue itself - but also as a 'boring' layout where nothing moves, despite your team's best efforts to the contrary.

 

An interesting point, which needs thinking about. It's too late to answer this fully tonight, but I will try to answer it tomorrow. All I will say, at this early stage, is that if there is one thing I have learnt about this layout is that there have always been consequences when we've made changes - and many of those consequences were unexpected and unforeseen until we try running the layout at the next show.

 

I will reveal some new plans we have for 'spicing up the operation' which I hope we will be able to trial at our next show which I hope will deal with that concern.

 

BW

 

Paul

[TEAMYAKIMA]

OK, let's begin by agreeing that any change has pro's and cons and my/our job with this layout is to maximise the pro's and minimise the cons.

 

Firstly, let us begin by looking at the artistic impact of making such a change. Here is the scene as it is today - it's very busy - things being unloaded from the box cars - yes, maybe the two empty trucks on the R/H side need loads in them, but otherwise the idea is that the box cars have arrived and are being unloaded. The loco which brought them has uncoupled and is awaiting a path to return to the marshalling yard off-scene. There are a series of cameos which tend to imply that the box cars have recently arrived. Also, as it happens, the highly decorated QJ which we tend to use in that scene (not the one shown in today's photo) is a brass one and is very track sensitive (which is code for 'derails a lot') and so sitting it right at the front of the layout is a good role for it as it is very eye-catching.

 

 

Here is the scene without the box cars - TBH it doesn't look convincing to me as I think, in reality, the unloading would take place quite quickly after the box cars arrived and everyone would have left the scene by the time the box cars departed and consequently if there are no box cars I don't think there would be all that human activity.

 

 

Secondly, there is the operational impact of the change.  As I said before, originally I had the idea that an anti-clockwise QJ would bring the five box cars into the loop from the marshalling yard off-scene. There is an under-the-track magnet in place so that the QJ could uncouple and eventually run back light loco clockwise into the fiddle yard. Some time later, the same QJ would enter the scene, couple to the box cars and take them back off scene - and REPEAT twenty times during the day.

 

As with a lot of my original ideas, this idea had to be re-thought. 

 

Right from the beginning, my operating team have made it clear that they want simple reliable operation and that even simple roundy-roundy moves take some thought. Now, bare in mind that the bi-directional operator is sat right at the back of the fiddle yard has no view of the scenic section and whilst there is some basic TV monitoring I think it would be impossible for him to carry out such a delicate move from where he is sitting. Back in the beginning, we had walk around controllers and so, in theory, that operator could get off his stool and walk round to the front of the layout to carry out those moves, but we don't have walk round handsets anymore.

 

Another aspect of such a move is that the bi-directional operator would have to physically lift off the QJ in the fiddle yard and place it at the other end of the rake of box cars every time he made the move which takes the box cars back onto the layout. That has all sorts of implications including the possibility of damaging a highly detailed and very fragile loco and I go back to my operating team's basic requirement - keep it simple. 

 

There is another over-riding issue which cannot be overcome without a significant re-arrangement of the bi-directional fiddle yard - in the existing fiddle yard set-up there is simply no road available to store it when it's off the layout. 

 

So, for those reasons I regret to say that it must remain a static 'feature'. However, I can confirm that as the layout has developed it has become more reliable and so the basic roundy-roundy moves are now far easier and less stressful for operators to accomplish and so we are currently practising two new 'WOW!' moves which will more than compensate for the fact that those box cars stay put all day. I don't want to say any more at this stage, but after Taunton I will give full details including videos.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by TEAMYAKIMA

[Joseph_Pestell]

12 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

I must admit that one of my pet hates at a Show (& I don't have many) is seeing goods yards & facilities that don't get shunted at all during the show. Obviously it's big layouts that happens on, too. 

Seems a waste to me, but I would also be concerned that if someone happened to pass the layout during a moment when nothing was moving on the main lines, but just saw this rake of cars & stationary loco, then by sheer chance managed to pass it again later & all they saw was the same rake of cars & loco, it could be very easy not just to write-off the layout as "something Foreign" - a big enough issue itself - but also as a 'boring' layout where nothing moves, despite your team's best efforts to the contrary.?

Just my 2p. Worth zip, really. 😉

 

On the excellent Bournemouth West they do shunt the goods yard. But it is, so far as I know, a wholly separate operation with an operator sat in front of the layout and operating it like an inglenook sidings. Seems like a reasonable compromise to me which allows for the fairly constant movement of passenger trains.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

4 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

On the excellent Bournemouth West they do shunt the goods yard. But it is, so far as I know, a wholly separate operation with an operator sat in front of the layout and operating it like an inglenook sidings. Seems like a reasonable compromise to me which allows for the fairly constant movement of passenger trains.

 

Hello Joseph

 

I take your point, but just to clarify the situation, what we are really discussing on my layout is more a case of an 'extra/different' movement rather than shunting in the sense that you are describing on Bournemouth West. 

 

We just have a simple loop right at the front of the layout and so the only possible movements are 1. Rake of box cars arrives   2. Rake of box cars departs  with the possible addition of 1A, Light loco returns to fiddle yard  1B. Light loco enters scenic section and couples to rake of box cars.

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

22 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

Hello Joseph

 

I take your point, but just to clarify the situation, what we are really discussing on my layout is more a case of an 'extra/different' movement rather than shunting in the sense that you are describing on Bournemouth West. 

 

We just have a simple loop right at the front of the layout and so the only possible movements are 1. Rake of box cars arrives   2. Rake of box cars departs  with the possible addition of 1A, Light loco returns to fiddle yard  1B. Light loco enters scenic section and couples to rake of box cars.

 

 

 

Hi Paul,

 

I was just responding to F-Unit's post. Your layout is of rather different design which optimises movements on the through lines. It seems to me that you have chosen the right option for your single siding goods depot.

 

A fork-lift truck running on a Faller system? Perhaps a bit too small.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

8 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

I was just responding to F-Unit's post. Your layout is of rather different design which optimises movements on the through lines. 

 

Thanks for that - Yes, we concentrate on plenty of action on the main lines, but at our next show (Taunton) we will be trialling two new operational features which we hope will take things to the next level. As I have often said, when I originally thought this layout up (14 years ago) I considered its theme to be the industrial railway at the back of the layout with the main lines just an 'add-on' whereas viewers have always prioritised the main lines and in that context, what I consider one of our most important USP's (the banking move on the industrial) have virtually never featured in videos,

 

To address that issue we have thought up ways to flag up the banking moves to viewers and at the same time avoid this scenario - the videographer had the right idea, but fate intervened - look at 5.58 to see what I mean.

 

 

[MikeOxon]

On 21/08/2023 at 16:17, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

Good question. Two thoughts come to mind.

 

1. I was told by a (British) TV production friend of mine (and an RMwebber) that, " Outside broadcast Units are hardly ever owned by the TV company, they are just hired in as and when required." Whether that holds good in China I honestly don't know.

2. Having a logo like that would make it 'stand out' but that might not look so good or be so easy to do now that there is a ladder on one side

 

When I was in China for the solar eclipse in 2009, the TV vans were marked as shown below:

 

 

 

Mike

[TEAMYAKIMA]

6 minutes ago, MikeOxon said:

When I was in China for the solar eclipse in 2009, the TV vans were marked as shown below:

 

 

 

Mike

 

 

Thanks for this. That's  very interesting but, as I said, my advice was from someone with British experience rather than Chinese. My excuse will be that the layout is set in 2001 when things weren't quite so sophisticated :-)

[luke_stevens]

2 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

 

Thanks for this. That's  very interesting but, as I said, my advice was from someone with British experience rather than Chinese. My excuse will be that the layout is set in 2001 when things weren't quite so sophisticated :-)

 

A reasonable assumption. Things would be less sophisticated before the 2008 Olympics and more sophisticated afterwards.

 

Of course Paul could create a "Beijiao News" station...

 

Luke 

[Al.]

Have you got the station and good shed signs painted and fitted yet?

[Pacific231G]

On 21/08/2023 at 16:17, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

Good question. Two thoughts come to mind.

 

1. I was told by a (British) TV production friend of mine (and an RMwebber) that, " Outside broadcast Units are hardly ever owned by the TV company, they are just hired in as and when required." Whether that holds good in China I honestly don't know.

2. Having a logo like that would make it 'stand out' but that might not look so good or be so easy to do now that there is a ladder on one side

 

Hi Paul

I've been looking into that a bit more and in Europe production facilities companies seem to vary between those who mark their vehicles with their own name, boldly or discretely, or leave them unmarked. I still don't know how well developed the facilities market is in China,  but I did find CTVS (China TV Services) and a few others. It looks like broadcast stations there probably do still own more of their own production facilities than is now common in Europe.

Some images of CTVS trucks show them with a discrete logo that would be easier to apply than the one above and curiously neither of them include any Hanzi text.  

 

For obvious reasons, TV News organisations generally have their own ENG/uplink trucks which likely would carry their own logos though nowadays  in the UK and Europe they tend to be more discrete about attracting attention to themselves than they used to be (in some situations they can become targets) In the USA, where the local TV news market is very competitive, remote vehicles (the US name for OBs)  are generally used as billboards so proclaim the channel/station very loudly

In China now it looks like they do carry logos or names but not very loudly but I've no idea about the situation in 2001. I do have a friend who was very high up in the BBC's coms set up and I'm pretty sure worked on their coverage of the Beijing Olympics who might remember. 

If you want to look at a selection of Chinese OB vehicles there are a number here though the logos etc are current not 2001

https://www.live-production.tv/search-results/category/mobile-production/country/China

 

 

. 

[Nick C]

16 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

For obvious reasons, TV News organisations generally have their own ENG/uplink trucks which likely would carry their own logos though nowadays  in the UK and Europe they tend to be more discrete about attracting attention to themselves than they used to be (in some situations they can become targets) In the USA, where the local TV news market is very competitive, remote vehicles (the US name for OBs)  are generally used as billboards so proclaim the channel/station very loudly 

At the risk of going very off-topic, most OB trucks these days are geared more towards events (sports, concerts etc) rather than news - with the latter by the time you've got a truck there it's too late, but it's quick to send a presenter and a single camera operator with a 4G or 5G connection back to the studio - and for the real 'breaking news' there's a big rise in the use of smartphone cameras - both very quick to deploy and very discrete compared to a full size broadcast camera...

[TEAMYAKIMA]

29 minutes ago, Nick C said:

At the risk of going very off-topic, most OB trucks these days are geared more towards events (sports, concerts etc) rather than news - with the latter by the time you've got a truck there it's too late, but it's quick to send a presenter and a single camera operator with a 4G or 5G connection back to the studio - and for the real 'breaking news' there's a big rise in the use of smartphone cameras - both very quick to deploy and very discrete compared to a full size broadcast camera...

 

I get that and maybe that is covered by the fact that my layout is set in 2001, but there is also another aspect. 

 

I started another topic in Miscellany & Musings, "When is it right to tweak reality on an exhibition layout to entertain the viewer?"  And maybe this is a perfect example.

 

The van with the satellite dish is a 'stand-out' feature i.e. it is unusual/unique and it's right under the viewer's nose, it will (hopefully) draw people into the cameo whereas just an estate car with with a man holding a smart phone wouldn't.

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by TEAMYAKIMA

[Pacific231G]

5 hours ago, Nick C said:

At the risk of going very off-topic, most OB trucks these days are geared more towards events (sports, concerts etc) rather than news - with the latter by the time you've got a truck there it's too late, but it's quick to send a presenter and a single camera operator with a 4G or 5G connection back to the studio - and for the real 'breaking news' there's a big rise in the use of smartphone cameras - both very quick to deploy and very discrete compared to a full size broadcast camera...

Hi Nick and Paul

OnTopic

In 2001, the setup modelled by you Paul would be pretty typical for a live report- You could add a stand light or two or even just the director pointing a "hand basher" at the reporter (been there done that many times) but I don't think they'd add much and the scene is fine without it.

 

OFFTOPIC - so read no further if you don't want to.

 

Nick, it IS possible to get broadcast quality pictures and even sound from a Smartphone. In fact, in May  I produced a practical session for the Royal Television Society on this very topic (with ex BBC News camerawoman and mobile journalism trainer Deirdre Mulcahy).

 

However, though they are  useful for when the reporter gets to a story before their crew, is on holiday when all hell breaks loose , or wants to film very discretely, a Smartphone (which does have limitations) is no substitute for a properly equipped news crew which, for a mainstream news channel, would normally include a reporter, cameraman (or woman), sound recordist and possibly a producer. If you try to use a crew that's too small (e.g. just a camera operator and reporter) then things actually take longer and screw-ups (like recording an interview and finding a buzz or nothing at all on the audio) are far more likely. Jack of all trades applies to TV production as much as to anything else (though the crews of 15-20 or more that ITV sent to Downing Street for simple interviews with Thatcher did the TV industry no good at all)

 

ENG/mobile trucks are by no means obsolete even today. If you're in the field (espcially if it's a very large field)  you can't alway rely on getting a 4G or 5G connection so modern ENG trucks can often switch automatically between those and a satellite connection.  Also, a lot of news reporting is not running round chasing breaking stories. For things like news conferences, launches, live interviews and many other events you need an established contact whether via VOIP, fixed lines  or satellite. 

If the ENG truck is something like an SUV then it can of course be what the reporter and crew use to get themselves to the location. 

 

If you still think ENG vehicles are obsolete, take a look at this which was first seen at IBC (The International Broadcasting Convention in Amsterdam) in 2018

https://www.mastervolt.com/references/the-bbc-megahertz-ev-van-the-first-ever-fully-electric-newsgathering-vehicle-powered-by-a-mastervolt-installation/

 

It is all a far cry from this veteran Portugese OB vehicle from 1957 that I saw restored and displayed at IBC in 2014

 

I think it was a four camera unit but have no idea how this vision mixer worked. Possibly X is cross fades and H and V are horizontal and vertical wipes/split screens .

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Pacific231G

[ColinK]

To add a bit of action to the scene you could make the satelite dish move.

[Pacific231G]

12 minutes ago, ColinK said:

To add a bit of action to the scene you could make the satelite dish move.

Nice thought Colin but I think the satellites used for uplinks are all geostationary. There used to be a whole farm of satellite dishes on the roof of a low building to one side of TV Centre and I never saw them tracking.

BTW  I'm quite amused watching Fireball XL5 on TPTV. There the whole "Space City" HQ building goes round and round  rather than just the radar dish!  The horizontal ski jump launcher is also quite good fun (I suppose that is a sort of railway!)

[Enterprisingwestern]

5 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

But Gordon and I have been working away on several projects - just at a gentler pace than back in the past, baring in mind that I'm 70 now!

 

Time to start training for singlehandedly rowing the Atlantic then, you've got 3 years to practice!

 

Mike.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

On 28/08/2023 at 16:17, Enterprisingwestern said:

Time to start training for singlehandedly rowing the Atlantic then, you've got 3 years to practice!

 

Mike.

YES, that reference has been explained to me!

 

And, NO, I won't be attempting that!!! 🙂

[TEAMYAKIMA]

I've been going through my photo archives. There are few things I like more in life than a team photo and here's one back in 2019 when we organised a scanning session with Alan from Modelu at the Aly Paly exhibition and all five of us now appear on the layout - a couple of us more than once!

 

 

This was us then .........................

 

 

 

And now  ...............................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by TEAMYAKIMA

[TEAMYAKIMA]

As previously reported, I have been going back and 'finishing' things which may have been rushed in the past.

 

One such thing is the depot building (my choice of expression - as opposed to station building). I always thought the very top of the walls looked 'odd' and so today have tried to address that - here is a photo with the job 2/3rds done.

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Ok, here's the final version.

 

 

My next previously over-looked 'problem' - these XingXing G60 tank cars. They were fitted with end steps made out of a rubber material - to avoid getting them easily broken I guess - but the downside is that they tended to curl up as in this photo and this isn't the worst example!

 

 

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Next 'little job' was to weather a couple of new recruits - I weathered the frame and deck, but decided to leave the cabs as delivered except for some matt varnish. That's when the 'fun' started  as most of those detaily bits along the sides of the frames are add-ons' and simply pushed into place - result, with handling they come off. Several hours later having scoured the floor, I found all the missing bits which had simply fallen off and now they're all glued in properly - two hours of my life wasted!

 

 

It appears that one of the loco crews on the industrial railway had complained about the state of the ground signals and so management have sent someone out to deal with the problem

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Something very interesting arrived in the post today....