Thomas the Imperialist Tank-Engine

[Boco_D1]

I'm another who couldn't get to the end of the article it just bored me to tears, the over-analyzing of Thomas/The railway series is so over-done, do these people really think that when Awardy made up a story about talking steam engines to his sick child he thought he'd sneakily put it some Marxism/sexism/racism/etc. The problem is you can do this to anyone's work, for my A-level sociology coursework I concluded a study of the gender stereotypes within Harry Potter, I didn't believe a word I had written, Potter just happened to be the most popular subject of the time that I could quickly read through, with the perfect subject matter to deconstruct.

At the end of the day I see a children's story for what they are, a children's story, do people really think a 3 year old is clever enough to see past the main lesson of the story, usually in the railway series case good is rewarded and bad is punished, and actually see the underlying hidden message that in society the social sexual stereotypes dictates that females should always follow the male and that their place within society is to be the supportive caring role within the nuclear family, whilst young men of the proletariat must the follow the rules and command of those fat cat bourgeoisie controller's (apologies to anyone who's three year old who can do this)

[Classsix T]

I'm wondering where the venom in nearly all the preceding posts comes from?

 

It doesn't seem to be a particularly mature or productive response to an alternative point of view, which at least merits consideration even if one ultimately doesn't agree with the conclusions.

I think the main crux is Neil, this over analytical modern day thinking applied to a series of tomes written (we gather) with the best intentions, doesn't merit any consideration whatsoever (see above post). That said, the US version of the good Reverend's work is the subject of the author's diatribe, which I have no particular desire to view as TTTE went down hill once hit (the S fell off the sign) entertainment started milking it for all it was worth.

 

I'm now off in my Ford, to Disney to see if they'd be interested in turning Rupert the Bear meets the little c00ns into a movie.

 

 

C6T.

[Jongudmund]

I'm another who couldn't get to the end of the article it just bored me to tears, the over-analyzing of Thomas/The railway series is so over-done, do these people really think that when Awardy made up a story about talking steam engines to his sick child he thought he'd sneakily put it some Marxism/sexism/racism/etc. The problem is you can do this to anyone's work, for my A-level sociology coursework I concluded a study of the gender stereotypes within Harry Potter, I didn't believe a word I had written, Potter just happened to be the most popular subject of the time that I could quickly read through, with the perfect subject matter to deconstruct.

At the end of the day I see a children's story for what they are, a children's story, do people really think a 3 year old is clever enough to see past the main lesson of the story, usually in the railway series case good is rewarded and bad is punished, and actually see the underlying hidden message that in society the social sexual stereotypes dictates that females should always follow the male and that their place within society is to be the supportive caring role within the nuclear family, whilst young men of the proletariat must the follow the rules and command of those fat cat bourgeoisie controller's (apologies to anyone who's three year old who can do this)

 

It's not that the three year olds are meant to realise it. That's in a way the point of deconstructing stuff. Because the story might be teaching your child things on a subconscious level.

 

For example, JK Rowling has been called out over how many of the bad children who are enemies of Harry and the other hero characters are described as fat and greedy. There is a subtle message there that fat people are more likely to be wicked and horrible, and then we wonder why anorexia is so common among 11 year olds...

 

People overdo this analysis of course. If there is any cultural bias in the original TTTE books, then it's probably not deliberate. Every author has a worldview, values and beliefs that can appear in their work. Clearly Awdry preferred steam engines to diesels, for example, although I don't remember this being explicitly said anywhere. The point made previously about Diesels being painted black at the time Awdry was writing is a good one. 

[pointstaken]

Whatever next ? Peppa Pig and its Marxist undertones ? I doubt that the intended recipients absorb any of the nonsense supposedly imparted to them.

 

Dennis

[Ozexpatriate]

Whatever next ? Peppa Pig and its Marxist undertones ? 

All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.

[Ozexpatriate]

Every author has a worldview, values and beliefs that can appear in their work.

Indeed so.

 

People regularly make a fuss over most successful authors of children's works.

 

Enid Blyton's "Noddy" has been criticized for many things - in this context I'll highlight the Golliwog characters in Noddy.

Ted Geisel (Dr. Seuss) was criticized (and people often boycotted his works at the time) over his affair and the suicide of his first wife.

Telletubbies were roundly criticized over Tinky Winky. The list goes on.

 

Some things do need to change with the times, (appropriately, Disney's "Song of the South" was never released on video) but people do get worked up about this stuff more than is necessary.

 

The point of articles like this is that you don't want to raise impressionable young children with stereotypes that are inconsistent with the values you want them to have in the world they are growing into. OK, but as parents there is plenty of opportunity to manage this when reading to children. Tossing them in front of the robot day-care telescreen is another thing entirely. I take more issue with that behavior than the content.

[Jongudmund]

Whatever next ? Peppa Pig and its Marxist undertones ? I doubt that the intended recipients absorb any of the nonsense supposedly imparted to them.

 

Dennis

 

I don't think Peppa Pig is Marxist, although she sure does whine an awful lot if she doesn't get her way...

[The Stationmaster]

Being polite I think that a lot of people regard the views of the author of the "article" in the OP as a bit over the top lib, possibly to the point of "ahh so thats why its laughable"

I couldn't work out if she, the author, was taking the whatsit or being deadly serious.  If it was the latter I would seriously suggest she finds something else to waste her time on, there's nothing worse - in my book - than pseudo-sociological analysis of anything out of its time and place and with a total lack of understanding of what it was actually about.

[Talltim]

To me the problem wasn't the result of the analysis, it was that it was based on poor research and a complete lack of understanding that American TV Thomas is not the same as later  British TV Thomas which is not the same as early British TV Thomas which is not the same as the Awdrey Railway series.

[Pete 75C]

Weren't they originally Gauge 1 with googly eyes in the first incarnation of the TV show? It all went to pot when CGI took over...

[Mark Saunders]

To me the problem wasn't the result of the analysis, it was that it was based on poor research and a complete lack of understanding that American TV Thomas is not the same as later  British TV Thomas which is not the same as early British TV Thomas which is not the same as the Awdrey Railway series.

 

I suspect that all the research that she did was on Google and in front of the TV with a box set of DVD's?

 

Mark Saunders

[Glorious NSE]

People overdo this analysis of course. If there is any cultural bias in the original TTTE books, then it's probably not deliberate. Every author has a worldview, values and beliefs that can appear in their work. Clearly Awdry preferred steam engines to diesels, for example, although I don't remember this being explicitly said anywhere. The point made previously about Diesels being painted black at the time Awdry was writing is a good one. 

 

It was slipping by the end though, with Sodor becoming home to several "good" (or at the very least "reformed") diesels by the latter books - even if some of them were based on prototypes that were far from good!

[Poggy1165]

Every single person who has been born has biases. We can't help it, especially as many of them are unconscious, so we are not even aware of them. The thing is, when one writes a book, some of these biases will inevitably show, not least the unconscious ones. Even trying really hard to be PC will not prevent this.

 

England in the 1950s was a very, very different place to what it is now, for good and ill. All sorts of cultural assumptions which were the norm then are now either unacceptable or at least subject to debate. Some people will not want their children exposed to such assumptions, others will shrug and say it doesn't matter. In my view, both views are perfectly valid ones for an adult to hold. As a child the politics flew right over my head; reading them now it sticks out like a sore thumb. But I see political bias every day, and I adjust for it.

[Mark Dickerson]

Looking back, as a child I had precisely one Thomas book (James the Red Engine, inherited). I never really took to the series - I'd like to say the bit in the introduction about the Fat Director now being the Fat Controller taught me my first lesson about the reality of politics (did Awdry mean that as tongue-in-cheek, I wonder?), but i just didn't understand it.

 

Some themes are deliberate, some unconscious and some purely accidental. For me, reading a copy of another Thomas book from the library, I took against the portrayal of the closest thing to the locomotives I saw growing up - Diesel - and stuck with what I knew. Thank you, Combined Motive Power Volume for showing me the way to the Revolution.

[TheSignalEngineer]

I couldn't work out if she, the author, was taking the whatsit or being deadly serious.  If it was the latter I would seriously suggest she finds something else to waste her time on,.........................................

Perhaps she could give us an in-depth analysis of the goings on involving Andy Pandy, a furry animal and a rag doll in the linen basket.

[Phil Bullock]

It was slipping by the end though, with Sodor becoming home to several "good" (or at the very least "reformed") diesels by the latter books - even if some of them were based on prototypes that were far from good!

 

That sounds like rampant bogie-ism to me! Just because Boco has different wheel arrangements at either end is no reason to treat him any differently!

 

 

Phil

[hayfield]

Perhaps she could give us an in-depth analysis of the goings on involving Andy Pandy, a furry animal and a rag doll in the linen basket.

 

 

Why not spend her time on matters which are closer to home for her, namely what her presidents have/are doing to other countries. Far more imperialist than poor old Thomas. And I would much rather put my trust in the Rev than the Presidents 

[Trevellan]

After TTTE, I progressed to Arthur Ransome (Swallows and Amazons etc). Recalling some of the characters and storylines, I shudder to think of the deconstructive possibilities there...

[PatB]

I dunno how much kids pick up of underlying messages in anything. I know I'm not very good at it. A few years ago I read The Chronicles of Narnia to my daughter and it was only about 3 pages from the end of the last book that I twigged it was a Christian allegory. Yes, in spite of being the product of a very CofE primary school and a barely less so secondary even Aslan appearing as a lamb at the end of The Voyage of the Dawn Treader failed to spark any sleeper cells in my 40 year old brain.

[HornbyA3Fan]

There are somethings that in the early TV series that won't be used now. 

 

I won't say them, unless I might get hated for using things like "lazy bones" as an example. Why is TTTE hated by the some nowadays, if it is the Railway series, or TV series. I don't myself, and I doubt any from reading the original stories. 

[Adrian Wintle]

After TTTE, I progressed to Arthur Ransome (Swallows and Amazons etc). Recalling some of the characters and storylines, I shudder to think of the deconstructive possibilities there...

 

And there is always Biggles...

 

Adrian

[The Lurker]

I dunno how much kids pick up of underlying messages in anything. I know I'm not very good at it. A few years ago I read The Chronicles of Narnia to my daughter and it was only about 3 pages from the end of the last book that I twigged it was a Christian allegory. Yes, in spite of being the product of a very CofE primary school and a barely less so secondary even Aslan appearing as a lamb at the end of The Voyage of the Dawn Treader failed to spark any sleeper cells in my 40 year old brain.

and despite the very strident condemndation of one Philip Pullman, who I understand wrote his Northen Lights books with something of an antidote in mind? Mind you the LAst Battle really does give it away, doesn't it?

[The Lurker]

Whatever next ? Peppa Pig and its Marxist undertones ? I doubt that the intended recipients absorb any of the nonsense supposedly imparted to them.

 

Dennis

Surely Peppa Pig is full of the modern way of undermining the classic patriarchal role - Daddy Pig is a "bit of an expert" at everything except he isn't?

 

or is it a subtle way of pointing out to children that depsite what they hope, their Dad can't do anything?

 

or is it just supposed to make them (and the adults watching with them) laugh?

[The Lurker]

I'm wondering where the venom in nearly all the preceding posts comes from?

 

It doesn't seem to be a particularly mature or productive response to an alternative point of view, which at least merits consideration even if one ultimately doesn't agree with the conclusions.

It might have merited mature and productive responses if it had been argued logically and without silly inferences along the lines of "have you noticed the Diesels were black?" and references to potential anti-semitism. It seemed to work along the lines of if you throw enough mud some will stick

[The Black Hat]

Coming back to this as the thread is still going... as a graduate in international relations/history etc I can have a go at fighting fire with fire on this one. It would be academic hyperbole really, but can if people are curious enough....