black and decker boy Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 anybody else feel the need to pillory the rtr vs the kits with quite as much vigour??? Adrian's posts do offer an alternate view which is enlightening to a degree. The vigour and tone with which they are delivered seem to drive many others to return more positive sentiments on the wagon or just posts to counter his, ignoring the wagon altogether. Haggling over the size and shape of rivets may have a place on a specialist, super finescale society forum, magazine etc but for me, was too much and took away focus from the more pertinent areas of his review such as the duckert, buffers and the larger detail errors which are present and which people may wish to correct. Not only do model railway products need to have a balance and some compromise, so do reviews. A bit of positive thought, a bit less ultra-rivet counting micros coping analysis and you would have an ideal review and without getting to the sugar coated, everything is excellent magazine style review. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 You may have more scope if you run an engineers train, a brake van would be required if the train was worked by a single cab loco (class 03, 07, 08 or 09) . I have looked at my Southern CCE wagon guide dated October 1983, on the page headed 'Brake Vans' there are 10 dual piped DS prefixed brake vans listed whether any or all of these are pillboxes of a type suitable to be renumbered I will leave to someone else to determine. South Western Division: DS55560, DS56119 Central Division: DS55541, DS55577, DS56117, DS56454 South Eastern Division: DS55532, DS56010, DS56153, DS56246 cheers I thought we had already clarified this. These were very popular vans on BR because they weighed 5 tons more than anything else commonly available. Relatively large numbers survived into the 1980s for engineers use, a few of which were dual piped. And this use was nationwide. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/srbrakevan I would appreciate some photos of the model, PLEASE, as others have already requested. Paul Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Some photos on page 1 of the thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 This film has a nice SR revenue brake van a long way from the SR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDH1lnMGUjk#t=67 (Sheffield) Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 19, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 19, 2014 Evening all On my travels I bumped into a 25T Pillbox van on the North Norfolk Railway - wasn't expecting to see one there, easily accessible and in good condition. The track was higher than the footpath enabling some shots of the nether regions to be taken. May be of use to someone looking to detail the Dapol one (yes, I'm aware that the pipes on the side are a late addition). More to come if folk are interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 19, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 19, 2014 A few more: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 19, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 19, 2014 And the last few worth posting: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Thanks for taking the time to post those pics. Some really nice detail shots there. I liked the slightly bashed skin to the lookout, could be replicated with thin brass sheet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianbs Posted July 19, 2014 Share Posted July 19, 2014 Hi 2ManySpams Great pictures, straight into my pictures file in case I ever get around to doing a kit or modifying the RTR model which might appear from Dapol one day. The eagle-eyed error spotters best take note that this is the Diagram 1582 design version built so late that they are almost BR vans. and never carried the large SR lettering shown on this example before preservation. The new brakegear is quite different in the middle as an equalising system was used to take account of brake wear and they never had sandboxes either. They did start off with standard SR axleboxes but this one has BR replacements and has also been vac piped at some point in its later life. I wonder if Dapol ever took the trouble to do a photo safari like this before letting the Chinese take on the design. From references in Southern Wagons Vol 4 it would seem all these vans were painted in SR brown with red ends originally with the very small lettering style used post -war. The 5/8" plates below the solebars are visible in some pictures and these close off most of the underframe cavities so that they could be filled with ballast to get the weight up to 25Tons. There are separate plates for each section but, being rivetted on, must have have formed great rust traps for all the metal scrap they contained. Regards all adrianbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 If you are not confident (or, for whatever reason, unable to) in kit-building, then your alternatives are simply hope you can find something on the second-hand market, or do without. Which is rather really the whole point of ready to run items. It is true to say that some kits are more challenging to build than others - ie the superb Parkside GW Horsebox - yet even with that kit it is just a matter of breaking down the build into manageable tasks as the kit goes together so well. The Parkside Pillbox is an easish build for most (even beginners) and can be painted in 2-3 separate units before final assembly. I added a little more finesse to mine, yet that was down to personal choice. I also left some rivets off - whooooo how liberating! I would suggest starting off with eg a Parkside 16T mineral and see how you go.. Mine arrived - BR(s) Grey and it really looks the part - a welcome asset to my BR(w) layout... I have yet to count the rivets - something that can wait until I am totally and completely and utterly bored with life and existence.. The only unfortunate aspect was it suffered from Chinese Glue syndrome on one its wheel bearings. The brass bearing and bearing cover were rattling around in the box so nothing lost. The only problem is what would be the best glue to repair it with? any advice welcome. I wonder if others have had the same problem - if so be careful opening the box... Send it back (the P&P both ways should be free as the product is 'defective') and ask for a replacement or refund. I use cyano for such tasks yet as Cromptonnut implies if these RTR models are being purchased by eg. inexperienced modellers then I would advise against a DIY repair. As well as a model looking right and being accurate a prime consideration, with model railways has to be that it works/runs well Ah, so glad to see I'm not the only one! I got the BR brown (which is fine) and the BR grey which also has loose bearings, both on the same side. I thought maybe superglue, but am interested to see what others suggest and also where to apply it. Don't want to end up with 2 stuck axles. Please see my above reply. And/or provide a photo or two of the problem/underside and if I an help/advise then I will. It's that sort of elitist attitude that has put so many people off of 7mm modelling over the years. I was almost one of them. So many Guild members say there is no "elitism" yet here it clearly is once again. I was wondering whether the basis of your argument was that you had a pillbox brake van in your range and thus it was affecting sales ... but sadly you don't have a website to enable potential customers to find out what it is you actually do. I have to say that I have found very little 'elitism' in the GOG (or with modellers of 7mm), far from it in fact, it is true to say that some members/modellers prefer the hair-shirt approach, with Gas torch, lump hammer and a fully equipped heavy engineering workshop, yet I have to say that even those types of modellers (model engineers) have been very helpful when I have asked for advice. True to say that some of us model on a tight budget and then there are those where money is no option, yet I have found 7mm FS a great leveler. How is building kits elitist? Is there any railway modeller out there who doesn't? Building a Parkside kit is as straightforward as it gets Indeed, I couldnt agree more. A basic Parkside kit is akin to a basic Airfix kit. Not specifically but there are still some that consider kitbuilding "not proper modelling". You only have to read some kit reviews in certain specialist magazines to find out that the reviewer started by throwing away half the kit and building replacement parts out of a biscuit tin using enough machine tools to put the average professional to shame. How, I have never heard that said before? I sorta know what you are saying though, perhaps there is a little too much 'bravado' in some articles/builds/reviews - yet I feel that 7mm FS is nice cross section of materials and techniques. The main issue is what part of the hobby do any of use enjoy, running, building, kit bashing, collecting etc etc? I have to say again, that according to info received, Dapol had the chance to get the Pillbox right from day one, yet they chose not to - even if that choice was allowing the Chinese subcontractor too much of a freehand. At the end of the day if 'punters' wish to patronise a manufacture who - appears - to treat their retail customers with an, albeit, smallish, level of contempt then, it is, relatively speaking, a free country. Worse things happen at sea though, I have to say, if one were available for £25-£30 then I would take a punt and then see if I could fettle it - £70-80 retail is a tad too high considering issues such as poor build quality and inaccuracy, each to their own though. Kindest to one and all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianbs Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Hi all Because this is a new thread that has been started, a lot of the background to the "Saga of the SR brake van" is on another forum and for those who have not read it I refer you to pages 21 and 22 of the forum - RMWEB Dapol 2012/3 (and now 2014 ) O gauge range discussion thread Some has had to be repeated here as this new thread is incomplete without it but for those who have not read the earlier posts I think you may find some of the details enlightening. Regards adrianbs.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gismorail Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Havin made a comment about the model in an earlier post I think that Howard Smith's review in August BRM gives a very fair and balanced review on this model which having read further into the history of the vehicle is something of a mine field So to annoy those that disagreed with my earlier comment ' Well Do Dapol' and I hope you sell loads Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Havin made a comment about the model in an earlier post I think that Howard Smith's review in August BRM gives a very fair and balanced review on this model which having read further into the history of the vehicle is something of a mine field So to annoy those that disagreed with my earlier comment ' Well Do Dapol' and I hope you sell loads I think that we all wish Dapol well - and we all seem to want better for them than they do for themselves.. Looking back on it, I wouldnt say that the history of the 25T Pillboxes is a minefield as such, it just takes some time to sift through and there are some basic constants. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianbs Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Hi All Not quite sure that it is a minefield at all really, but Dapol certainly trod on a few, largely because they put them there in the first place and forgot to check the "map".. Both Parkside and a.n, other manufacturer managed to avoid most of them even though they never had any "maps" to guide them. ( For "maps" read the various comprehensive publications on Southern wagons that have appeared since either kit was launched, not to mention the easily accessible full size vans that have appeared in preservation over the recent past.) . Loud explosions are now being heard on the route to the Milk tanks as field reports come in so it will be interesting to read the casualty statistics in a few days / weeks time ?.. Currently the expectations are that the forensics team will be having plenty of work trying to allocate the various body parts to the individual fatalities. Regards all adrianbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Hi All Not quite sure that it is a minefield at all really, but Dapol certainly trod on a few, largely because they put them there in the first place and forgot to check the "map".. Both Parkside and a.n, other manufacturer managed to avoid most of them even though they never had any "maps" to guide them. ( For "maps" read the various comprehensive publications on Southern wagons that have appeared since either kit was launched, not to mention the easily accessible full size vans that have appeared in preservation over the recent past.) . Loud explosions are now being heard on the route to the Milk tanks as field reports come in so it will be interesting to read the casualty statistics in a few days / weeks time ?.. Currently the expectations are that the forensics team will be having plenty of work trying to allocate the various body parts to the individual fatalities. Regards all adrianbs Hi Adrian, I tend to agree - like your analogy too (LOL)! I too was thumbing through a few books on the tanks the other evening (as I am no expert) and hoping for great things from Dapol :-) ATVB CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djparkins Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 There has to be a middle ground somewhere in all this. Every Dapol thread is turning into this polarised view of they're great or they're awful and I hold my hands up I'm guilty of being involved in this. It's turning into a grand Adrian bash: Adrian bashes Dapol and people bash Adrian back. I don't know what the answer is, Adrian wants more accurate models, others are happy with general shape, many agree strongly with Adrian many equally disagree. But at the end of the day it will be sales of the product that decide whether in reality people want the level of accuracy Adrian believes is required but if all the models sell then Dapol or any other manufacturer of RTR will be satisfied they got the balance between accuracy and cost right and nothing will change. I suggest that part of the reason they do bash Adrian et al, is because a lot of modellers want so much for the RTR stuff to be as good/better than the kits of the same that are already out there - so that kit building is increasingly not required for 7mm modellers. In this context, Adrian is the bringer of unwelcome news and after his review [even if you might not admit it], I suspect you will never look at your RTR purchase in quite the same light again. So, the best thing to do in that situation is 'shoot the messanger' and carry on living with the faults. BTW I'm ******* sick of seeing this term 'rivet counter' used in such a disparaging way - like its a crime! "The Rivets Are There to be Counted" - Ancient Chinese Proverb. David Parkins Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I suggest that part of the reason they do bash Adrian et al, is because a lot of modellers want so much for the RTR stuff to be as good/better than the kits of the same that are already out there - so that kit building is increasingly not required for 7mm modellers. In this context, Adrian is the bringer of unwelcome news and after his review [even if you might not admit it], I suspect you will never look at your RTR purchase in quite the same light again. So, the best thing to do in that situation is 'shoot the messanger' and carry on living with the faults. BTW I'm ******* sick of seeing this term 'rivet counter' used in such a disparaging way - like its a crime! "The Rivets Are There to be Counted" - Ancient Chinese Proverb. David Parkins Hi David, Indeed, dont shoot the messenger, in this case Adrian (it appears that Adrian has actually purchased the RTR Pillboxes - I, to date, have not). You have raised some interesting points. Near the top of the thread I stuck my neck out and posted my interpretation of a 25T Pillbox - a kit bash of the Parkside kit a lot of modelling (fun in the main) and a very cost effective hobby purchase. This kit can be easy to build and one can also 'kit bash' and finesse it a little more as required. My interpretation isnt perfect, yet 'tis my own'. I have been told recently, by TPTB, that with the release of the Dapol Pillbox 'there will be little interest in the kit versions from now on' (in precis and not verbatim) - I do hope that is not the case. Why? well, for one, kit building need not be the reserve of those with hair shirts and also, because, if such is true then the free-market isnt working properly (quelle surprise!?) ie quality and price have not won out in this case in that both of the main kits are better than the Dapol version in terms of price and quality (of course the management researcher/consultant would argue that we are, with RTR and kits, not comparing oranges with oranges, apples with apples - perhaps, dare I say, 'royal jelly' with a 'lemon'?). I am a big fan of Tony Wright's work and he has come to the conclusion that much of the RTR in '00' is so good that he will only build a kit when RTR isnt available, or perhaps he will super-detail and fettle RTR etc etc. As we cannot stop 'progress' TW's view seems bang on. BUT, in 'OO' many of the models appear to be very accurate indeed, so therefore why is it that, at a much higher price point, in 7mm, inaccuracy is tolerated, welcomed even, in 7mm RTR by the majority? I also note that the Thread has been pretty quiet of late. I believe that you have touched on some of the 'psychological' elements of this issue with Dapol et al., (because it is not just about the models) in that those who have purchased or wish to purchase the RTR version take a certain tack when they discover that the model is wide of the mark. In addition and I stand by my word, I have it on good advice, that there is an issue with Dapol in that, I understand that they had all the info in CAD to make an accurate model, yet in effect, they chose to ignore it, as far as I can tell. Therefore getting the model right, in this case, wouldnt have cost more than getting it wrong (therefore disputing the argument that production costs would be affected by such accuracy). I also feel that they current batch of mainstream reviews lack the detail on the details of the model which are wide of the mark - thus begging more questions which have been muted before - each to their own. I oft use the phrase 'rivet counter' as such is a 'short hand' (to my mind) for eg museum quality models. Having said that, I think that my Posts, here and elsewhere indicate my belief in 'continuous improvement' whilst not throwing the baby out with the bath water. If we didnt have 'CI' then we would all still (in 7mm) be running tinplate. I agree that there is nothing wrong with wanting and striving for better. I am also finding that being open and honest comes with it's challenges ;-) Some more short hand;- "Blue? Are you a Red, Blue, Yellow or Green Personality Type Our personalities can be divided into colours. Each colour has particular traits, and it is important for you to understand these traits. Not only will it help you to psychologically understand the person better, but it will aid how you interact with them also. If you know how to get the best out of a person, you will see great results, and better still if you recognise what colour YOU are, you are able to advise people how to get the best out of you, your likes and dislikes, your strengths and your weaknesses. RED Personality Traits They are strong leaders, fast paced thinkers, risk takers, purposeful, drivers, strong-willed, less patient, obvious energy, formal overtly competitive, rational. You may recognise many of the qualities of the REDS are in many leaders as they take ownership, need to be fast paced in their thinking, take risks and be purposeful and confident with it. Things Red's Don't Like: Don't' waffle, remember, they are less patient and what ever you do, don't be vague or ramble on. They value time, so again don't waste their time, don't get too personal as REDS just like to stick to business, don't stray from purpose, these personality types are focussed in their thinking, and don't ask irrelevant questions, they get impatient and it does not fit in with their rational thinking patterns. Lastly don't try to take control, REDS are natural leaders and like to feel they are in control. How to interact with a RED Personality: Do get to business quickly, when interacting with a RED be succinct and precise, give them facts, and avoid the detail, talk to them about results and outcomes, they need to hear this to make quick decisions. Use their time efficiently, they are fast paced thinkers and tend to move quickly in their thoughts, great people to bounce ideas off, be confident when you talk to a red. Yellow Personality Traits Yellows are the life and soul of the party, they are sociable, expressive, very imaginative and enthusiastic with it. Yellow's are very informal, very optimistic and animated. Their Imaginations can sometimes run away with them as they are very fast paced thinkers. Yellows are very relationship focused and are visionaries with obvious high energy. Things Yellow's Don't Like: Yellow's don't like it when you suppress their opinions or get into intricate details. They are social animals and don't like it when you are too impersonal, business-like or task orientated, you need to weave this into the conversation. Don't try and inhibit their creativity, or appear aloof or detached. How to interact with a Yellow Personality: Key to interacting with a yellow it so socialise before mentioning any business. To get into their good books talk about options and other people. Be enthusiastic and energetic when conveying your ideas over to them and be fast paced in delivering them. Offer your ideas and importantly use humour when doing so being sociable and acknowledge their input. Blue Personality Traits Blues are deep thinkers, analytical in nature, very detail focused and formal in their thinking. They can come across as being aloof, but are deliberate in their approach and systematic, precise and pays attention to detail. They like things in their place, and are very organised with good time management skills. They are sticklers for time and are capable of coming to their own conclusions without having examples of others pushed at them. They take their time in their thinking and are much slower paced than the reds or yellows. Blues can come across as perfectionists due to their logical, systematic, precise and deliberate approach to problems or solutions. Blues like to have all the facts, and then logically put together an answer that is suitable. Things Blue's Don't Like: Don't come across as disorganised with a Blue as they are very tidy. Try not to be late as they are sticklers for time keeping. Try not to be flippant or pushy with them. They don't like vagueness so make sure you have lots of detail and be prepared to have lots of questions thrown at you. Don't use testimonials or exaggerate claims as they do not fall for this, they are more facts and figures orientated. Don't be too emotional as they cannot handle emotions. How to interact with a Blue Personality: Be well prepared when dealing with a Blue personality, get into detail as they love to get all the facts in their mind. Be factual, specific and logical with your approach. Listening is important to a Blue so listen carefully to what they have to say, as they verbalise their thoughts through questioning thoroughly. Give them time to respond as they are slower paced thinkers. Be formal in your approach as they are very business like. And finally the Green's. Green Personality Traits Cool laid back relaxed and patient best describes the personality traits of the Green. They are easy to get along with and very informal in their approach. They are social and focus on relationships so can come across as emotional. They are much slower paced in their thinking and are very democratic people. They are very understanding, and agreeable. They say yes, but mean no? The green is the go between for the Red's and Yellow's who are much faster paced. They act as the facilitator to conflicts. Things Green's Don't Like: Don't be pushy or put them on a spot, Green's absolutely hate this. Don't try and dominate the discussion or rush things and they do not like when you decide for them so try to avoid this. Don't be abrupt, explain in full and do not make wild claims or demands. They can also tell if you are insincere, so try not to be. How to interact with a Green Personality: Be friendly and show genuine interest in them, chat before going into business. It is important to develop trust first, be informal and non threatening. However, be alert for non verbal signs of concern, remember they say yes but mean no, but their body language will alay this. If you notice any non verbal signs of concern, uncover their needs with open questions. Allow them to weigh things up for themselves. Finally... Know you have a synopsis of all the colours, they can be useful if you can work out who in your team is a particular colour, you will now know how to get the best out of them and what to do not to get their backs up. We all have a mix of these colors in us, but one particular color may stand out more than most, this is known as your dominant colour and is more your true personality. I hope you find this information of benefit, Can you identify your colour? Let me know by leaving me a comment." From my POV I would like to see a nice mix of RTR and kits, all being accurate and providing VFM, with the kits having, as with yours David, decent instructions (and parts) such is a basic requirement for kit building success (I think that the 7mm market has often failed in this regard and that puts newcomers - and those who are skill building - off), I also would like to see DUPLICATION avoided as far as possible. At the moment at the 'top end' of the market Masterpiece who have produced some superb GWR and ex GWR locos of the larger types have now started to release their 'light' versions being 14xx & 58xx as well as Prairies and Panniers to follow, when Lionheart have such in their range, or are just about to release those types. Now in that price range perhaps 'punters' will have more than one manufacturers' version of a loco type in their 'collection' - or with the current economic climate - there may not be 'room' for more of the same in the same price range. I could be wrong, yet I was taught to avoid markets or market sectors/segments, whereby a product of high quality already exists, but to, look instead, elsewhere for a more lucrative niche (gap in the market). Looking at world markets and indeed our own little world of 'O' gauge I believe that we all have to be a little smarter with our money and actions - but that doesn't seem to be the case as far as I can tell, but then we do now live in a world with more communications devices than ever before, yet as far as I can tell, there seems to be less 'effective communication' going on with the masses being obsessed with celebrity and peering into tablets, phablets, mobiles etc. as if they were hypothesized by the infernal devices (in the truest sense of the phrase)! - please excuse my 'french', yet that's just FUBAR! My Post is 'War and Peace' in it's length and content I know, yet I am finding the whole issue with Dapol and some other manufacturers - plus 'punters' - slightly surreal to say the least! My only hope is that new modellers of 7mm who stumble across this thread can make an informed decision and maybe choose to avoid instant gratification (another psychological concept) and have a go at building a kit (much more rewarding). ATVB CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianbs Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hi All From one rivet counter to another, can you come up with a few more Chinese proverbs Dave.?? I have just read a couple of magazine reviews although I hesitate to call one a review, more like a promo for the product than a review as claimed. No names,no pack drill, but not one of my criticisms was mentioned in that review nor any others in spite of the fact that the van which was reviewed was one with the wrong underframe. It was even pointed out that early vans had the W iron underframe with its associated differences and then noted that later vans and the model had the Plate axleguards, apparently implying that this made it correct !!. The other reviewer had the bravery to point out about 5 or 6 anomalies out of the 30 I listed and one I did not as I felt it might be OTT in view of the number I had noted. Quite how secure his job now is, I am not sure, but fortunately he ignored most of the more important points although it has to be said that he was looking at one ot the vans with the "correct" chassis in this instance, I assume these magazines went to bed some time before my model arrived and therefore they had no access to my list. It would be interesting to see some of the reviews in other magazines and discover if different problems are disclosed. I fear for my life now in view of the "shoot the messenger" solution proposed, "slagging off" I could accept with equanimity but I am not sure about a more drastic option!! I will have to consider hiring a bodyguard if you think I might be in real danger or I could write rave reviews I suppose. Regards all adrianbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hi All From one rivet counter to another, can you come up with a few more Chinese proverbs Dave.?? I have just read a couple of magazine reviews although I hesitate to call one a review, more like a promo for the product than a review as claimed. No names,no pack drill, but not one of my criticisms was mentioned in that review nor any others in spite of the fact that the van which was reviewed was one with the wrong underframe. It was even pointed out that early vans had the W iron underframe with its associated differences and then noted that later vans and the model had the Plate axleguards, apparently implying that this made it correct !!. The other reviewer had the bravery to point out about 5 or 6 anomalies out of the 30 I listed and one I did not as I felt it might be OTT in view of the number I had noted. Quite how secure his job now is, I am not sure, but fortunately he ignored most of the more important points although it has to be said that he was looking at one ot the vans with the correct chassis in this instance, I assume these magazines went to bed some time before my model arrived and therefore they had no access to my list. It would be interesting to see some of the reviews in other magazines and discover if different problems are disclosed. I fear for my life now in view of the "shoot the messenger" solution you propose, "slagging off" I could accept with equanimity but I am not sure about a more drastic option!! I will have to consider hiring a bodyguard if you think I might be in real danger or I could write rave reviews I suppose. Regards all adrianbs Hi Adrian, See my Post #67 ;-) ATVB CME Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianbs Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hi All Sometimes you say something that comes back to bite you although in this instance the bite came before the suggestion. I did say in a post elsewhere that if Dapol could not design an accurate model they should send one they were duplicating out to China and save themselves a lot of work. I never suggested which brakevan kit should be sent, I recently acquired a model made from a competitors kit and having looked at it closely it reminded me very strikingly of my Dapol model. Regards all adrianbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djparkins Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Pity they did not send the other kit !!! Adrian - Yes - and had they done so I bet your team of international lawyers would have very quickly sprung into action! Regards, DJP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Hi All Sometimes you say something that comes back to bite you although in this instance the bite came before the suggestion. I did say in a post elsewhere that if Dapol could not design an accurate model they should send one they were duplicating out to China and save themselves a lot of work. I never suggested which brakevan kit should be sent, but they have obviously done exacty that. I recently acquired a model made from a competitors kit and having looked at it closely it reminded me very strikingly of my Dapol model. So much so that I checked all the errors and found that both models had an almost identical set. The only differences were where the kit was right and the Dapol model was or had been wrong. Even the degree of error was almost perfectly reproduced. Pity they did not send the other kit !!! It's a pity they did not send the POWs or Milk tank out to China or at least only one milk tank. They may have sent two versions out, which has confused the Chinese, in view of the mixture of LMS and GWR designs that has resulted. Next time they do this they may think of checking the model first before assuming it is perfect, I wonder who gets it in the neck for this error of judgement. Regards all adrianbs I did wonder if that might be the case - it wouldnt have been if theyd used the original CAD though!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianbs Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Hi All The original 2012 CAD does seem to have all the same errors as the production model apart from the roof edge and the buffers. The roof was modified to near correct very late on, as we know, but the buffers were simplified probably due to production constraints and lost the end ring. RW could have let them use his GWR buffer design which would have been far more accurate but probably increased costs substantially. A bit of "clever design" might have reduced costs here and enabled more accurate buffers to be fitted without increasing costs at all, but what do I know, I only make mine in whitemetal. I will have to ask the gentlemen concerned if I get a chance at Telford to find out if they agreed to their kit being copied, warts and all. They may not worry, as the warts have rather badly disfigured the model and Dapol have added to their woes by managing to come up with errors all of their own. Maybe they thought that changing a few additional things which they thought would make the model more like one of the published drawings or photos would put people off the scent. Unfortunately these made the model even more innaccurate !!! As you know, CME, I had a list of errors which I did not publish at the request of RW because he assured me that he was upgrading the model and hoped to take my points into account. I passed some to him at Kettering but he then told me that he doubted more than the roof could be changed. I was never asked about the others. Regards Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Western Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 However good, bad or dam right ugly the model is I still don't have the one I ordered four weeks before they arrived in the UK. I keep getting fobbed off with excuses when i inquire, despite the big boys of Hattons, Rails and Model Railways Direct showing in store now. Great Western, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CME and Bottlewasher Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 However good, bad or dam right ugly the model is I still don't have the one I ordered four weeks before they arrived in the UK. I keep getting fobbed off with excuses when i inquire, despite the big boys of Hattons, Rails and Model Railways Direct showing in store now. Great Western, That's interesting - Hattons are usually superb (I must say when I have dealt with Rails they have been very good too) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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