Revised Mk3s?

[Guest 43300]

I emailed Hornby asking if it's possible to obtain the tinted glazing so that I can upgrade my existing coaches. They replied saying they'll pass-on my email as an idea to maybe produce them as a spare.

 

Hopefully if enough of us ask they might actually produce them!

 

Just wait until these get remaindered and buy them cheap! If they sell out at full price, I will be very surprised!

[jonathan452]

I hate to put a dampener on the idea but looking at the images in Hornby's email shows a noticeable dark patch around where the Virgin logo used to be - it would therefore be very difficult to get around this and create an as-new Virgin coach unfortunately! I'd recommend going the eBay route for the original batches

Thankfully I do already have a red Virgin Mk3 DVT set. (Also a Mk2 EBW set and the 'Pretendolino'.)

 

Just thought it would be nice to have some extra vehicles, as I have a spare red DVT.

 

Although others have mentioned before that scale length Virgin Mk3's are like 'hens teeth', even on eBay.

 

Agreeing with the comments on the new thread started yesterday that these ('Long Marston condition') de-branded coaches were a waste of a prduction slot.

Edited August 11, 2014 by jonathan452

[ThaneofFife]

I emailed Hornby asking if it's possible to obtain the tinted glazing so that I can upgrade my existing coaches. They replied saying they'll pass-on my email as an idea to maybe produce them as a spare.

 

Hopefully if enough of us ask they might actually produce them!

Well thats a good idea. They do listen because as a minimum they got a letter from me (maybe many others suggested the same idea too) suggesting the simple change from clear to tinted plastic for the windows. I question though how much theyd charge for the glazing. Some of the mk3s are a single moulding with the roof and as we know some rooves came in different colours so would Hornby accommodate the various hues.....

 

the advantage to retro fitting would be thst you could cut off the tinted droplight windows before fitting and maybe replace with the clear from your old glazing....

 

The coaches though far less like toys and more like scale models since Hornby revised the glazing.

 

if Hornby do not issue a boxed set of scotrail mk3s they need their heads testing.....the dbso could be here in a year....get on it Hornby.

[brushman47544]

The (deferred 2012 announcement) ex Virgin weathered examples are now finally out (FO and TSO).

 

Has anybody got opinions on the amount of weathering applied?

 

A bit too much me thinks.

 

And is there anywhere where I can get Virgin transfers from to 're-brand' them?

 

EDIT As per my posts on previous threads I'm still not sure how the HST TGS is going to fit in with the loco hauled FO, TSO and RFM.

 

Personally I think the weathering is about right for post-Virgin use, but if re-branding them as Virgin then yes I agree the weathering would be too heavy.

[Adrian Wintle]

An option if you want to tint the windows of your existing coaches is Tamiya X19 Smoke acrylic paint. It is a clear gloss intended for tinting windows.

Adrian

[jonathan452]

An option if you want to tint the windows of your existing coaches is Tamiya X19 Smoke acrylic paint. It is a clear gloss intended for tinting windows.

Adrian

Useful to know - also in respect to the R4216C Blue/Grey Mk2d TSO which ommited the tint.

 

Maybe also the Virgin Mk2d's (masquerading as Mk2e/f's).

 

Though with the subsequent announcements of the Hornby Mk2e and Bachmann Mk2f it may now not be worth the effort.

[Adrian Wintle]

Useful to know - also in respect to the R4216C Blue/Grey Mk2d TSO which ommited the tint.

 

 

With the Tamiya paint you can get the amount of tint you want by adding more coats (the first coat will be very light). They also do other clear colours - I have replicated the distinctive green-tinted roof windows of a UH-1 helicopter with the Clear Green.

 

Adrian

 

[scottrains29]

Hornby's initial scale length (Top-Link) MK3s came with thick flush glazing leaving an annoying rectangular halo appearance inside each window. This was fixed on later releases.

 

I don't want to replace all my Virgin Top-Link coaches with the later ones since AFAIK only the early Top-Link ones have the correct silver window surrounds for the HST (Virgin's loco hauled coaches don't have silver surrounds).

Hopefully Hornby will produce the tinted glazing as a spare so I can finally upgrade my fleet. The new glazing looks so much better!

[159220]

Hornby's initial scale length (Top-Link) MK3s came with thick flush glazing leaving an annoying rectangular halo appearance inside each window. This was fixed on later releases.

Hornby Virign Toplink Mk3.jpg

 

I don't want to replace all my Virgin Top-Link coaches with the later ones since AFAIK only the early Top-Link ones have the correct silver window surrounds for the HST (Virgin's loco hauled coaches don't have silver surrounds).

Hopefully Hornby will produce the tinted glazing as a spare so I can finally upgrade my fleet. The new glazing looks so much better!

 

Might I ask why you don't look into Laserglaze Mk3 tinted windows? Having bought all ages of the Mk3 coach, you never get the whole glazing row off, leaving lumps of internal plastic, thus difficult to re-apply. Shawplan's Laserglaze range is an excellent Mk3 window replacement.

[scottrains29]

Might I ask why you don't look into Laserglaze Mk3 tinted windows? Having bought all ages of the Mk3 coach, you never get the whole glazing row off, leaving lumps of internal plastic, thus difficult to re-apply. Shawplan's Laserglaze range is an excellent Mk3 window replacement.

Lazerglaze looks great but I can't really justify spending hundreds upgrading all my mk3 rakes. I'm assuming if Hornby did release the glazing as a spare it would be significantly cheaper than Lazerglaze. Plus I reckon if I splah out on Lazerglaze a super detailed version will be announced shortly after (sod's law etc).

[ThaneofFife]

Once laserglaze is fitted can you still remove your interior moulding (for various reasons) or once in is it staying in ?

[beejack]

Just noticed this thread

I purchased the R4444A first class open  and R4446A guards standard just recently and both have the tinted glazing 

 

Looking from above down on the coaches the glazing appears quite dark but when you look at them at window level you can see through the window on the other side. 

 

Here are a couple of photos

 

 

[brushman47544]

Email just received from Hornby. Four versions of the TSO have arrived - R4634/A/B/C.

 

Good for Hornby - the email also advertises RMWebLIVE.

Edited August 22, 2014 by brushman47544

[BR(S)]

Email just received from Hornby. Four versions of the TSO have arrived - R4634/A/B/C.

 

Good for Hornby - the email also advertises RMWebLIVE.

 

These now come with lights: https://railsofsheffield.com/new-Hornby-intercity-mk3-coaches-JJJGP595.aspx

[159220]

Lazerglaze looks great but I can't really justify spending hundreds upgrading all my mk3 rakes. I'm assuming if Hornby did release the glazing as a spare it would be significantly cheaper than Lazerglaze. Plus I reckon if I splah out on Lazerglaze a super detailed version will be announced shortly after (sod's law etc).

 

A fair point! But they do look rather good on my FGW and Wrexham Mk3s.

 

I have noticed a lot of "internet talk" of the Mk3s needing new tooling. I understand that the current coaches were tooled in 1999. They do not look bad to me to be honest, even the original glazing is fine. The bogies seem fairly well detailed, especially when the springs are painted red or yellow. Yes the TGS has extruding window frames, but otherwise I do fail to see what significant improvements could be made (well part from the coupling).  Could someone enlighten me on what they would want from a re-tool of the Mk3?

 

The current Mk3 seem to stand up to the super detailed Class 43/HST, Class 67 and no doubt the upcoming Class 90. I personally do not want a re-tool, as I would then have to sell all mine, and buy the new ones. But if the serious flaws are pointed out and the benefits of a re-tool are proven. I best start saving up!

[Guest 43300]

A fair point! But they do look rather good on my FGW and Wrexham Mk3s.

 

I have noticed a lot of "internet talk" of the Mk3s needing new tooling. I understand that the current coaches were tooled in 1999. They do not look bad to me to be honest, even the original glazing is fine. The bogies seem fairly well detailed, especially when the springs are painted red or yellow. Yes the TGS has extruding window frames, but otherwise I do fail to see what significant improvements could be made (well part from the coupling).  Could someone enlighten me on what they would want from a re-tool of the Mk3?

 

The current Mk3 seem to stand up to the super detailed Class 43/HST, Class 67 and no doubt the upcoming Class 90. I personally do not want a re-tool, as I would then have to sell all mine, and buy the new ones. But if the serious flaws are pointed out and the benefits of a re-tool are proven. I best start saving up!

 

You wouldn't 'have' to sell all yours if there was a new release - if you are happy with them then that's fine, but plenty of us think there is significant room for improvement.

 

One of the main issues with the Mk3s is that they are a mish-mash of details from LHCS and HST trailers. For example, they are fitted with buffers or slots for them, but only the LHCS stock has buffers. The roof ventilators are correct for HSTs and Mk3b LHCS, but wrong for MK3a (Jouef are the only producer to have done Mk3as with the correct roof). Underframe and end detailing also varies on the real Mk3s, but Hornby just use a small number of generic designs. Then there are issues of the different origins of the tooling, meaning that the TGS doesn't match the rest of the HST set as it's an ex-Lima tooling. As a result of its origin it also has moulded-on buffers, which Hornby for some reason haven't seen fit to remove (yes, it's easy enough to cut them off but they shouldn't be there in the first place!).

 

The interiors are also a poor representation of modern Mk3s particularly, as they depict the original IC70 seats mostly around tables, whereas refurbished examples mostly have high-backed seats with fewer tables and more seats in an airline-type layout.

 

Compared with, say, the rendering of detail variations in Bachmann Mk1s the Hornby Mk3s don't stand up at all well. Of course there will always be some compromises in individual detail due to mass production methods, but the Mk3s just have far too many compromises - especially since Hornby have started producing the excellent re-tooled HST power cars. And that's another thing - the tension-lock couplings used are crap and lead to gaps which are far too big - some sort of close-coupling mechanism is needed. This is especially so with HSTs as they are pretty much fixed-formation sets, but also applies to LHCS, particularly in more recent times where they have mostly been in pretty-much fixed-formation sets all comprised of Mk3a/b vehicles, rather than being mixed in with earlier types as in BR days.

[surfsup]

Expanding on your post for the moment, other variations include:

 

The buffet car - Hornby has only one moulding from their original Top Link range which is based on a TRFB in the 407xx series - incorrect for Virgin liveried HSTs.

The odd Ex Lima Buffet car - which seems to be a mix of Loco Hauled RFM and HST Mk3.

CDL Lights are moulded onto all of the ex Top link range Mk3s but not the ex Lima - so for a BR Blue Grey set you get an odd appearance.

And as you point out, there's the differences between Mk3 HST & Mk3 A, couplings and chunky window frames.

 

While the Mk3 isn't too bad, I do also think it's time for a new Mk3 up to Mk1 or Mk2 standards, while moving the current ones over to Railroad.

[ThaneofFife]

the end connecting corridor surrounds need to be looked at too. they should sit in a recess in the coach ends - jouef did a fairly good interpretation of this back in 80s even if the floating surround was a bit too big!

 

this accompanied by nem close couplings would bring big improvements alone but lets face it they should be done afresh to include a full raft of disc brake inserts window stickers for 1st class and no smoking better window framing and flusher glaxing non prism effect dcc lighting central lock and non central lock versions appropriately finished interiors lchs and hst variations etc as the current ones originate 30 plus years ago under lima.

 

given the improvement with tinted glazing recently i doubt Hornby plan to retire their mk3 just yet but for those of us that cant see beyond their age and lo-fi ness we can but hope an all new mk3 will come onto the scene in the next few years. the aircon mk2ecandcfs are finally coming so watch this space. of course a new mk3 will likely exceed £55 a pop in 2 or 3 years time.

Edited August 23, 2014 by ThaneofFife

[Cornish Triang Paul]

I have long said the interiors are completely wrong now. Perhaps too, Hornby can stop calling them Tourist when for HSTs its TRAILER....... .

[royaloak]

Expanding on your post for the moment, other variations include:

 

The buffet car - Hornby has only one moulding from their original Top Link range which is based on a TRFB in the 407xx series - incorrect for Virgin liveried HSTs.

You are correct for the Virgin Cross Country HSTs but Virgin West Coast ran 4? HSTs in the normal 2+8 sets each with a 407xx buffet coach on the Euston to Holyhead route. Stragely enough they were allocated to Plymouth Laira depot.

[159220]

• One of the main issues with the Mk3s is that they are a mish-mash of details from LHCS and HST trailers. For example, they are fitted with buffers or slots for them, but only the LHCS stock has buffers.
• The roof ventilators are correct for HSTs and Mk3b LHCS, but wrong for MK3a
• Underframe and end detailing also varies on the real Mk3s, but Hornby just use a small number of generic designs.
• Then there are issues of the different origins of the tooling, meaning that the TGS doesn't match the rest of the HST set as it's an ex-Lima tooling.
• The interiors are also a poor representation of modern Mk3s particularly.
• The tension-lock couplings used are crap and lead to gaps which are far too big - some sort of close-coupling mechanism is needed.

 

 

• The buffet car - Hornby has only one moulding from their original Top Link range which is based on a TRFB in the 407xx series - incorrect for Virgin liveried HSTs.
• The odd Ex Lima Buffet car - which seems to be a mix of Loco Hauled RFM and HST Mk3.
• CDL Lights are moulded onto all of the ex Top link range Mk3s but not the ex Lima - so for a BR Blue Grey set you get an odd appearance.
• And as you point out, there's the differences between Mk3 HST & Mk3 A, couplings and chunky window frames.

 

• nem close couplings would bring big improvements alone
• disc brake inserts
• window stickers for 1st class and no smoking
• better window framing and
• flusher glaxing non prism effect
• dcc lighting
• central lock and non central lock versions
• appropriately finished interiors

 

Many thank you's for your replies. This has interested me alot as I had been wondering the specifics as to a non-mk3 expert the Hornby 1999 tooling looks fine. (minus the coupling and glazing).

 

I now fully understand the massive benefits a re-tooled Mk3 would bring to allowing for correct formations, especially between LHCS and HST.

 

In summary it would seem the Mk3 tooling would benefit from:

 

• Correct roof ventulation
• Underframe differences between types - I honestly thought the 1999 tooling looked good, until after reading comments above I looked on Flickr and did see differences.
• Lima/Hornby tooling differences to be corrected - TGS chunky windows and RFM Buffet Oddity - I agree here, the non-1999 toolings do look rather dated and at least need to be tooled to the same standard as the 1999 versions.
• Interiors - modern seating and stickers (curtains?)
• Coupling
• Disc Brakes on wheels
• Better flushed glazing

 

I certainly see how a re-tool could be welcome now and not upset modellers who already own a number of Mk3s and which not to replace them all. As the re-tool sounds as it would not greatly change the over all appearance of the coach, but would add subtle detailing. This might be in marked difference to the Mk2D tooling which looks old and crude, I have sold on any of my Mk2Ds in expectation of varstly improved Mk2E/Fs.

 

I suspect Hornby shall not be doing a re-tool on the Mk3 (based on other blogs and topics), perhaps another manafacturer shall see the market potential (Dapol seem to have a nice range of N-scale Mk3s). Though I suspect Hornby could include a few of the improvements into its current 1999 toolings; notably; close coupling, disc brakes and interiors. I shall see what Hornby have to stay to my email.

 

Very interesting and thank you for your inputs.

[Guest 43300]

 

I suspect Hornby shall not be doing a re-tool on the Mk3 (based on other blogs and topics), perhaps another manafacturer shall see the market potential (Dapol seem to have a nice range of N-scale Mk3s). Though I suspect Hornby could include a few of the improvements into its current 1999 toolings; notably; close coupling, disc brakes and interiors. I shall see what Hornby have to stay to my email.

 

The Dapol Mk3s are a major improvement on the Farish ones, but they have many of the same compromises as the Hornby ones - mainly due to the smaller market in N gauge making it too expensive to have multiple toolings. In particular, they have exactly the same issue with roof, end and underframe detail, same issue with the interiors, and they have only done one type of buffet (a 4-window one). They do come with brake discs which can be added, the HST trailers have no buffers but the LHCS ones do (correctly), and the knuckle couplers aren't bad for close-coupling.

[frobisher]

I certainly see how a re-tool could be welcome now and not upset modellers who already own a number of Mk3s and which not to replace them all. As the re-tool sounds as it would not greatly change the over all appearance of the coach, but would add subtle detailing. This might be in marked difference to the Mk2D tooling which looks old and crude, I have sold on any of my Mk2Ds in expectation of varstly improved Mk2E/Fs.

 

I suspect Hornby shall not be doing a re-tool on the Mk3 (based on other blogs and topics), perhaps another manafacturer shall see the market potential (Dapol seem to have a nice range of N-scale Mk3s). Though I suspect Hornby could include a few of the improvements into its current 1999 toolings; notably; close coupling, disc brakes and interiors. I shall see what Hornby have to stay to my email.

One issue that Hornby would have with a retooled MK3 with a close coupling mechanism is that their HST power cars and MK3 DVT don't have a CCM because they were tooled up to work with the existing coaches.

[scottrains29]

Does anyone happen to know how Hornby created the RFM coach? Did they just modify the Lima TRFB tooling or was it new tooling loosely based on the Lima TRFB? The reason I ask is would it be possible for Hornby to produce (using the same method) the similar but much needed TRSB.

 

A TRSB even just to Limby standard would be better than none at all!

[frobisher]

I'd suspect they modified the Lima tooling, from which there's no going back